Atheism

Society Religion & Philosophy
221

Re: Atheism

Dude, you don't have a good sense of humour. Try that wand on it.

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I did. I can’t see how is it different to evolution (except probably the DNA thing) but it has the same pattern of “it must have been like this” and “this must have happened hence this means abc”.

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Re: Atheism

hmm. i understand what you're saying. but think of it as something that is currently happening around us. it's not a thing of the past and its purpose wasn't to lead to humans. it's purposeless. and natural selection favors the traits that increase fitness.

you can start by understanding Darwin's finches.

we have extinct and extant phyla. And the fossil record. Observable microevolution. Divergences. Lots of time in between. Take the example of bacteria. They don't need as much time as complex organisms to evolve...so we witness their evolution in our lifetimes.

Reading a good book about evolution can be helpful.

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Re: Atheism

This will be another long thread on evolution THEORY. A theory which is not a fact. ;)

Maybe, possibly, perhaps, might have been, could be, would be, most likely, had to be etc. etc.

Without these words, errrr crutches I mean, evolution theory cannot even stand on its feet.

If a human walks like a duck, for evolutionists its a duck!

They'll say: "See told ya!" :D

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Re: Atheism

My belief is a belief ... I am merely trying to show that evolution is a belief too. My theory is better because it does not need so much complexity ... It is a simple theory. In fact if evolutionists want to argue for an existence that does not need God, or theoretical physicists for that reason they need to start coming up with less complexity not more complex theories ... But you find the more we probe in to our life and universe origins the more complexity we are building around it ... To me this suggests more and more likelihood for God, not against Him.

Furthermore, my theory includes the idea of morality and greater purpose.

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Re: Atheism

Evolutionary Biology is the title of the subject which is taught as a fact and valid science in every reputable educational institution in the world.. and is a hated word in every madrassa-Islamic centre-christain seminaries-religious educational institutions:

Yale Department of Ecology & Evolutionary Biology

Department of Organismic and Evolutionary Biology - Harvard University

Best Ecology and Evolutionary Biology Programs | Top Science Schools | US News Best Graduate Schools

227

Re: Atheism

Appeal to numbers logical fallacy … And also exaggeration … What is considered reputable?

228

Re: Atheism

That's your problem.. "the conspiracy theory"..

If you had found a single verse in Quran endorsing evolution, I am sure you would have been the biggest advocate of evolution today irrespective of your scientific exploration. The same DNA arguments you would have been posting in favor of evolution. You would have fiercely ridiculed the people as idiots who don't endorse evolution. You would have taken the same evidence about DNA similarities-genetical drift as ultimate undeniable evidence in favor of evolution as the miracle that Quran predicted evolution when the modern scientific discoveries-understandings were not available..

Now with your new conspiracy theory.. and your allegations that all the reputed educational institutions of the world-scientist-academics are a part of this conspiracy proves my earlier point that you are a highly confused individual who is not able to balance between literal religious transcripts and science.

Your situation is exactly the same like the religious community from nearly all the world's monotheistic religions who opposed Galileo when he proved that the universe is not geocentric which was contrary to the literal meaning of all the religious scriptures. Later on all the religious scholars changed the understanding of the literal meaning of these scriptures when they could not deny the overwhelming evidence provided to them..

P.S. Not all the scientist-academics who endorse evolution as fact are atheist.

In fact a majority of them are skeptical.. and a lot of them even take Intelligent Design theory as a strong likelihood. Einstein for example on several occasions has spoken in favor of the strong possibility of a Single Creator.

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Re: Atheism

Do I exist.. what is the proof that I exist???

Nothing can be proved as conclusively as you desire.. we are talking everything in relative terms..

For you a madrassa teaching science from scriptures in North Waziristan can be reputable.. I consider Harvard-Yale-Oxford as reputable..

My friend you can go a step further.. you can become a skeptical by denying the existence of everything. After all it will be just one step further of becoming a history-science denier..

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Re: Atheism

No.. this claim was made by literal religionist belonging to nearly all the major religions of the world.

Today the same literal religionist have come up with some mumbo jumbo that scriptures did not say that universe is geocentric. They claim that scriptures were misunderstood for centuries on this issue..

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Galileo_Galilei

Church reassessments of Galileo in later centuries
The Inquisition’s ban on reprinting Galileo’s works was lifted in 1718 when permission was granted to publish an edition of his works (excluding the condemned Dialogue) in Florence. In 1741 Pope Benedict XIV authorised the publication of an edition of Galileo’s complete scientific works which included a mildly censored version of the Dialogue. In 1758 the general prohibition against works advocating heliocentrism was removed from the Index of prohibited books, although the specific ban on uncensored versions of the Dialogue and Copernicus’s De Revolutionibus remained.** All traces of official opposition to heliocentrism by the church disappeared in 1835 when these works were finally dropped from the Index.]
In 1939 Pope Pius XII, in his first speech to the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, within a few months of his election to the papacy, described Galileo as being among the “most audacious heroes of research… not afraid of the stumbling blocks and the risks on the way, nor fearful of the funereal monuments”. His close advisor of 40 years, Professor Robert Leiber wrote: "Pius XII was very careful not to close any doors (to science) prematurely. He was energetic on this point and regretted that in the case of Galileo."**]
On 15 February 1990, in a speech delivered at the Sapienza University of Rome, Cardinal Ratzinger (later to become Pope Benedict XVI) cited some current views on the Galileo affair as forming what he called “a symptomatic case that permits us to see how deep the self-doubt of the modern age, of science and technology goes today”. Some of the views he cited were those of the philosopher Paul Feyerabend, whom he quoted as saying “The Church at the time of Galileo kept much more closely to reason than did Galileo himself, and she took into consideration the ethical and social consequences of Galileo’s teaching too. Her verdict against Galileo was rational and just and the revision of this verdict can be justified only on the grounds of what is politically opportune.” The Cardinal did not clearly indicate whether he agreed or disagreed with Feyerabend’s assertions. He did, however, say “It would be foolish to construct an impulsive apologetic on the basis of such views.”
On 31 October 1992, Pope John Paul II expressed regret for how the Galileo affair was handled, and issued a declaration acknowledging the errors committed by the Catholic Church tribunal that judged the scientific positions of Galileo Galilei, as the result of a study conducted by the Pontifical Council for Culture.] In March 2008 the head of the Pontifical Academy of Sciences, Nicola Cabibbo, announced a plan to honour Galileo by erecting a statue of him inside the Vatican walls. In December of the same year, during events to mark the 400th anniversary of Galileo’s earliest telescopic observations, Pope Benedict XVI praised his contributions to astronomy. A month later, however, the head of the Pontifical Council for Culture, Gianfranco Ravasi, revealed that the plan to erect a statue of Galileo in the grounds of the Vatican had been suspended.

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Re: Atheism

Peace yazdi

What gives you that impression? The conspiracy is real the evolutionists openly state they are systematically enforcing it to be taught and propagated ... Harris is quite open about this idea ... he is encouraging governments to teach this and Dawkins too ...

Regarding single verses endorsing evolution - well you see why would I find a single verse endorsing evolution yet everywhere else it talks about the Creative power of Deity?

There is still a sliver of a chance for evolution to be true for some things because as I said earlier - the Qur'an is so amazing that not only does established science conform with it, but non-proven but readily accepted science ALSO does not create a true contadiction with the Qur'an ... in which case my contention for evolution is purely based on evolution being a dogma and not a science. I just want the atheists here to accept that it is a belief system ... then I will leave them alone ...

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If there are people here who profess to a "science" - even if it is a true science, but cannot explain it - then that is BELIEF ... they trust MAN to be telling them such things as FACT. Conversely a true atheist needs to be a true scientist and leave nothing for chance - nothing for FAITH ... they need to be investigating everything until they arrive at the FACTS themselves ... and stop arguing on the basis that so many people of repute say such and such ... they are merely people of faith in other people if they do this ... !!!

And more importantly I intend to be as scientific as possible when it comes to the "science" of evolution or any other science.

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Peace Keyboard Stoker

Yes … you know what is brillant though? The Qur’an is better than anything the scientists have come up with regarding the motion of the Sun …

Today we say that the Earth goes around the Sun … Is this true? No it isn’t … The Earth seems to go around the Sun … it is actually caught in gravitational field that significantly starts off at the centre of the galaxy, then to the solar system zooming around that galaxy, then to the centre of mass of the solar system which is typically off centre from the Sun … in fact the Sun itself revolves around the same centre of mass … whilst doing so these bodies spin around their own axes … when viewed from a certain vantage point … the actual motion of the Sun is a wobbling eliptical curve when viewed from the galaxy’s POV …

It is more of a path being taken … levels of superimposed sinusoidal curves … The Qur’an does not make the blunder of describing the motion of the Sun in reference with another object … Rather it states that it “occupies a path” … How simple yet so profoundly accurate - still better than anything the scientists can come up with …

The beauty in all this is - it made total sense to the Arabs of the desert who could only see the Sun move in the sky …

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Re: Atheism

I can say religion and creationism is taught as a fact too in the same “reputable” educational institutes.

Evolutionary biology is not any different to abductive reasoning or in simple term “Just So Stories”.

It’s a myth that only religious people believe evolution to be a belief system.

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I could not stop laughing..

Your science discoveries are so convincing that it would be illegal to discuss them in science class room anywhere in civilized world. Hence the conspiracy theory. Your newly coined definition of atheist as a person who believes in evolution.. and now you want to change the opinion of all the world's newly created Atheist (according to the recent definition by you) to change their opinion..

More you are posting, more you are getting exposed. You are like the priest who imprisoned Galileo.. you will eventually change the translation of scriptures as understood by literal religionist if you are slapped with evidence which will become impossible for you to defend. But you will remain a literal religionist..

The fact today is every scientist in the world who has any credibility recognizes evolution as a "fact"... It's taught in every reputable educational institution in the world as a "fact".. No matter you declare it a "conspiracy" or "belief".. your views are illegal to be taught in science class rooms. The best possibility you have to propagate your views is in a madrassa or a theology class. Science community does not take people like you seriously. You can continue posting your non sense but with your logic and credentials you will not be able to change the position of the scientific community of the world that "evolution is a fact, explained by a theory."...

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Blah blah blah....

It's illegal to teach creationism as a "fact (true with overwhelming observable evidence)" in these reputable educational institutions.. it's taught as a "belief (considered true by many without any evidence)"...

Is it just a coincidence that people who declare evolution as a belief system are never allowed to teach in science class rooms. They just find their publications quoted in creationist-literal religionist web sites..

Oh.. I forgot the conspiracy theory..

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Re: Atheism

Why is it so that for centuries literal religionist like you read the scriptures and understood the universe to be geocentric. They declared Galileo a devil when he suggested otherwise. Suddenly they changed the translation-meaning of the scriptures when they could not defend their position any longer..

.. and voila.. now you found science in Quran which for centuries people who read the scripture could not find..

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**Atheism is total HOGWASH

ah! but

Hogs Don’t WASH!**:bummer:

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Evolution cannot be taught as a fact because it's a developing theory and proof is that it's been totally changed since Darwin first presented it.

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Re: Atheism

WTF. Insanity. Get off your high horse.