From 2007 the Pakistan Army’s image took quite a lot of battering with Musharaf in charge. A lot of good had happened in Pakistan from 1999-2006 but all that was quick to unravel as Musharaf lusted for everlasting power. With Kayani taking over as COAS the public image of the army improved again as Musharaf was longer there. Under Musharaf it looked like half of the Pashtun areas were going to become fiefdoms run by militants independent of Pakistan. Kayani mopped the “mess” up and the army was seen in a much better light outside of Pashtun areas, especially their recruitment base, the Punjab. Pashtuns have generally suspected the Army has played a double role since day one.
However, that did not last long. There has been an increase in drone attacks under Kayani who seemed to have no voice and no authority at all. 2011 has een a very bad year for the army with the Raymond Davies case at the very start with no one thinking it could get worse. Fast Forward early May 2011 and Bin Laden is killed in of all places, Abbottabad. The Army angered the left wing, secularists, the right wing and nationalists. Many arguments flew around - the army/ISI is helping terrorists, Pakistan helped kill an innocent old man and what good are the Army when they cant detect an invasion of their airspace for such a lengthy time. Other things have happened including the many Pakistani troops killed by US/ISAF/NATO/Afghan troops of one which took place recently. Nowadays many people seem more anti-Army and they seem not to be able to do anything to make their image any better.
Why is the Army behaving so unprofessionally and why so many mistakes? I do believe some of it is their own greed but then is there a conspiracy as well?
[quotq]Pashtuns have generally suspected the Army has played a double role since day one.
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A majority of our army from troops to officers comes from the Pashtun areas specifically the FATA belt. It is retarded to say anything else. Why do you think the Pakistan media for a good year openly stated the Army could not fight in FATA because of the open linkages between its officers and the Taliban? Seriously!
Secondly there has always been an anti-military element in Pakistan. Just because it is more vocal during PPP regimes does not mean its broader. Lastly its a brilliant PR campaign by the PPP leadership where they blame the military when things are not going well and then take the credit when things go well. If the military has no back bone then who decided to close down NATO supply routes?
You can not have your cake and eat it. However the over all change would be good in the long run where the military comes under the control of a civilian government.
[quotq]Pashtuns have generally suspected the Army has played a double role since day one.
**A majority of our army from troops to officers comes from the Pashtun areas specifically the FATA belt. It is retarded to say anything else. Why do you think the Pakistan media for a good year openly stated the Army could not fight in FATA because of the open linkages between its officers and the Taliban? Seriously!
**Secondly there has always been an anti-military element in Pakistan. **Just because it is more vocal during PPP regimes does not mean its broader. Lastly its a brilliant PR campaign by the PPP leadership where they blame the military when things are not going well and then take the credit when things go well. If the military has no back bone then who decided to close down NATO supply routes?
**You can not have your cake and eat it. However the over all change would be good in the long run where the military comes under the control of a civilian government.
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Are you Pushtun? Do you come from a Pushtun area? The vast majority of Pushtun posters, many who got banned actually have stated this case and if you travelaround Pushtun areas and speak to Pushtuns they will tell you that there is a double game.
Many British Muslims are anti the war in Iraq and Afghanistan yet they still live in Britain. Just because many recruits join the Army it does not mean they support every single move it makes. If you did not know there are very glum employment prospects in Pakistan so joinig the army is a lifeline. By the way it is not a majority as that is from Punjab. So you got that fact wrong.
The strongest opposition to the army came under Musharaf regime not under the PPP. Maybe it was stronger under Zia. Did the PPP force the army to committ its mistakes? In fact it was military rule which breathed fresh life into both corrupt leaders Nawaz and BB.
Yeah yeah bull****. You make claims that fly in the face of the reality and then you bring ethnicity into it. Facts are facts. We have a good many officers from FATA and the Pashtun areas in the Pakistani military. Hell the colonel in El Geniena when I was there was an Orakzai. But Prove your claims. Back them up.
Army and Musharraf are synonyms. Since when did this start?
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Secondly there has always been an anti-military element in Pakistan. Just because it is more vocal during PPP regimes does not mean its broader. Lastly its a brilliant PR campaign by the PPP leadership where they blame the military when things are not going well and then take the credit when things go well. If the military has no back bone then who decided to close down NATO supply.
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There might have been some anti military people but the overall image of the army has taken a battering firstly under Musharraf and now under Kiyani. The army profession used to thought as a very prestigious profession but I have seen people who say that people used to be fond of them before but now hatred against them is increasing. Multiple factors for this wot, balochistan issue, relations with America and the way they have conducted the internal security. Punjab used to defend the army but now even in Punjab the love for the army is not the same, and that's the fact.
^ not entirely true. Having seen the abysmal performance of the present 'democratic' government, I can bet you that people will be distributing sweets again if and when Zardari/PPP government goes...
Besides Who helped the people of Punjab and Sindh during the floods? The PPP government was invisble throughout the crisis
It was mainly the Pakistan Army + philanthropists like IK and Edhi + NGOs
The overall image of the army is not the same (as it used to be) that's the reason why it wont be easy for them to take over even if they wanted to.
The way Pakistan gave blanket approval to the Americans to carry out drone attacks,handing over bases to the Americans, the disappearances of people, Raymond davis episode, OBL issue, the attacks on PNS and GHQ, and the overall relations between Pakistan army and the US have not only eroded the army's image but also reduced the expectations that people have in them. The main responsibility of the army is to protect the country, when they cannot do their own job properly what else can be expected from them?
highest representation in army is from punjab, then KPK.
not all of the pashtuns are anti army, just like not all the punjabis are pro army.
army did behave unprofessionally in the past but now for last couple of years, they did pretty good, be it long march, swat operation, flood relief, karachi issue, memo and now recent nato attack. they stood firm, and made sure (at least on record) that orders come from civil govt. they have also shown very much calm attitude. the biggest blunder is abbottabad drama, where they got owned badly, and i'm sure it was a drama with the help of people from inside, both military and civil govt. investigations are going on, and report will soon be out.
i find it very very hard that majority of public will ever have a bad image for army in pakistan, i dont know but we are just made that way i think.
highest representation in army is from punjab, then KPK.
not all of the pashtuns are anti army, just like not all the punjabis are pro army.
army did behave unprofessionally in the past but now for last couple of years, they did pretty good, be it long march, swat operation, flood relief, karachi issue, memo and now recent nato attack. they stood firm, and made sure (at least on record) that orders come from civil govt. they have also shown very much calm attitude. the biggest blunder is abbottabad drama, where they got owned badly, and i'm sure it was a drama with the help of people from inside, both military and civil govt. investigations are going on, and report will soon be out.
i find it very very hard that majority of public will ever have a bad image for army in pakistan, i dont know but we are just made that way i think.
The Swat operation has totally destroyed the reputation of the army in the area. It was all too late. Many people suffered unneccesarily. Those living outside of the region see it as a success whilst those directly affected saw a game and one where the army was turning a blind eye to the goings on.
The Swat operation has totally destroyed the reputation of the army in the area. It was all too late. Many people suffered unneccesarily. Those living outside of the region see it as a success whilst those directly affected saw a game and one where the army was turning a blind eye to the goings on.
you have no idea what you are talking about, you really don't know how endear people of swat keep army these days. I've my very own friends from swat, who have visited the area after operation, and their families live there. this is first hand information
now dont come up with those fake youtube videos men army uniform shooting kids... any one can make those videos very easily
you have no idea what you are talking about, you really don't know how endear people of swat keep army these days. I've my very own friends from swat, who have visited the area after operation, and their families live there. this is first hand information
now dont come up with those fake youtube videos men army uniform shooting kids... any one can make those videos very easily
Do not make assumptions. What makes you think I am not from Swat?
In fact you probably know a few token people from Swat. Now it is the most nationalist of all the Pashtun areas. They do not hate the common soldier who just is issued orders. Most people know it was a game that was played. Musharaf, COAS, allowed the game to be played. Army checkposts were even next to Taliban checkposts.
I was never intent on bringing that up but now that you mention it the Pakistan army has only ever shot its own people, rewind 40 years to Banghaldesh and can you tell me has it changed since then?
Many people were killed by the Taliban, especially those who opposed them. many even belonged to political parties such as the ANP and PPP.
and now this is not about common soldier or leaders. nobody in pakistan hates or has bad reputation of common soldiers, its only the higher command.
and about Banghaldesh, i'm sure we are on 100% different frequency. I'm one of those who believe it was not Pakistani army who did all that crap, it was indian sponsored makti bahni. you may be one of those who believe the indian version that pakistani army rapped thousand of women and killed uncountable men.
this topic has been beaten to death several times. you cannot change my stance, neither i want to change yours nor i can. so i'll stay out of it. there are people here who are anti pakistan and anti army in every single thread, and will happily believe anything that indian and western media says. not my cup of tea. call me lunatic or ignorant i don't care.
and now this is not about common soldier or leaders. nobody in pakistan hates or has bad reputation of common soldiers, its only the higher command.
and about Banghaldesh, i'm sure we are on 100% different frequency. I'm one of those who believe it was not Pakistani army who did all that crap, it was indian sponsored makti bahni. you may be one of those who believe the indian version that pakistani army rapped thousand of women and killed uncountable men.
this topic has been beaten to death several times. you cannot change my stance, neither i want to change yours nor i can. so i'll stay out of it. there are people here who are anti pakistan and anti army in every single thread, and will happily believe anything that indian and western media says. not my cup of tea. call me lunatic or ignorant i don't care.
o lala ji..wat the F*** army was doing when india was sponsoring makti bahni..? where was its intelligence? why they did not take any counter measures? why the whole nation was not taken into confidence over the situation?
same things happened in swat..and same things are happening in Balochistan? They keep telling US that india is behind all this but they dont have the BALLS to stand up at internation forums or to stand up to india with facts.
its just petty excuses from them ..get 60-70% budget ...allocate lands ...and grab the throne with martial law whenever you want..and blame it on politicians after all the mess (although politicians are no angels too). Respect is earned...you dont get respect with a danda, thats just fear.