Army and Taleban- on the same side?

I was shocked to read this BBC article, in which the refugees from Swat say that the Pakistan Army is no better than the Taleban. I thought the Army sincerely wanted to rid Pakistan of the Taleban, and bring peace to the country. What does everyone else think about this article? How much truth is in it?
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Cynicism among Pakistani refugees

By Abdul Hai Kakar
BBC Urdu service, Peshawar

The tent cities are growing in the district of Swabi, in north-west Pakistan: swelled with the thousands fleeing the fighting in nearby Buner district.

Last month, Taleban from the troubled district of Swat moved south into Buner and overran it, occupying government offices and police stations, and closing down locally popular Sufi shrines which they oppose.

The army moved in a couple of weeks ago to counter them, and is now engaged in heavy fighting in the area.

According to Shahram Khan, the head of Swabi district government, around 150,000 people have fled Buner during the last few days. This is three times the figure of 40,000 previously provided by the federal government.

Most of these people have ended up in about a dozen refugee camps set up by the government in Swabi.

‘Pouring in’

Many of these camps are funded by private individuals. Others are supported by the UN High Commissioner for Refugees (UNHCR) and the World Food Programme, others by foreign and local NGOs.

The Taleban captured our area and… threatened local people. But that wasn’t as bad as the shelling by the army
Nasir Ali, displaced high-school student

The government of North West Frontier Province has already earmarked money to take care of the refugees, and it is now reaching most camps.

One such camp is located in Chhota Lahore town of Swabi district.

There are rows of tents supplied by the UNHCR. Most are family shelters, but some also house one school each for boys and girls, as well as a medical dispensary.

“Tents are in short supply, and we also expect food shortages in coming days as refugees from Buner continue to pour in,” says Kabir Khan, the administrator of the camp.

The refugees are, in the main, happy with the supply of food and other necessities, but nonetheless they say they cannot live in a refugee camp forever.

‘Talks needed’

“Our problem is not here, but back in Buner,” says Bakht-e-Rahman, a refugee from the Cheena area of Buner.

“Even if you give us a palace to live in here, the problem up there remains. For that, the government needs to talk to the Taleban.”

I point out that talks have been held, but after the government met all its demands, the Taleban still refused to lay down arms.

But Mr Rahman was not convinced, saying the negotiations which surrounded the creation of the peace deal were not exhaustive enough to tackle all the issues.

Most displaced people say they have left their homes not because of the Taleban’s excesses, but because of shelling by the army.

“The Taleban captured our area and started patrolling the streets, they snatched vehicles from NGO staff, government officials and private individuals, and they threatened local people,” says Nasir Ali, a high school student.

“But it wasn’t as bad as the shelling by the army - that was what actually forced us to leave our homes.”

Perils of fleeing

Many people waited a long time before they got the opportunity to flee. And then they walked for hours to reach safety, with women and children in tow.

Refugees flee the fighting in Swat
Thousands of families have fled from across the Swat district

Rahim Khan, from Chamno village, is one of them.

"When the shelling got too close and the women and children started to cry, we decided to leave, but we couldn’t. Several people died or got hurt trying to get to the road.

“Then there was a lull in shelling, and about 1,000 villagers fled. About 500 are still there.”

Mr Khan’s family, which includes several women and children and his old mother, walked for three hours before they were able to get a ride to Swabi.

‘Same coin’

I interviewed a large number of refugees in Swabi, but I did not meet a single person who actually saw the army and the Taleban as members of opposing camps.

Instead, I heard, they were “two sides of the same coin”.

“The Pakistani army has hurt us badly - but while they have killed civilians, I swear I haven’t seen a single shell directed at the Taleban,” says Shahdad Khan, a refugee sheltering at a camp in Swabi’s Shave Ada area.

Others question the Pakistani military’s stated commitment to “eliminating” the Taleban.

“No way,” Siraj tells me.

“The army brought the Taleban to our area! It’s politics. The Taleban and the army are brothers.”

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Re: Army and Taleban- on the same side?

You have to understand that some of this is said in frustration and anger. From December to February, there was average of 10 people beheaded every day, with many bodies left in center of Mingora. It was even called "Khooni chowk". My friends who have families in Swat and Malakand also feel the same way because the army was happy to allow the Taliban to assualt the Swatis but only acted when US threatened aid cutoff.

See how quickly Army found the will to act after US called us out?

Plus no one has answered why these Taliban leaders were able to move around freely when our army could have killed them off before things came to a head. You combine with "strategic depth" ideas and Brigadiers praying with Fazlullah etc. and people get suspicious.

I think the current action is sincere. I'm sure that the jawans and lower-level officers are itching to teach the Talibans a lesson. I hope the "geniuses" in GHQ do not stop this momentum and finish of the Taliban once and for all.

not a new argument.
i have a friend from swat who is from an educated family who served the swat state. he is in no way a left-wing pashtun nationalist but he curses the army and says they are worse than the israelis. for him it was either swat as a separate country or pakistan, nothing in between.

normally you could expect a pshtun nationalist to army bash but now maybe educated swati people have had eough of everything? the army has not dealt with some of the issues very well and quite a few people claim army check posts and taliban checkposts are very close. little is done by the government and the intelligence to jam the fm signal used by fazullah.

i get the feeling more and more people within the region are thinking they are the cash cows for american aid to pakistan.

its easy for us to talk about imposing war but the locals trust neither side and they see things we dont. then again t could just be army-bashing, some sectors of the pakistani media/journalism love to do that. theres nothing anyone can do thats right. people complain all the time.

i hope the army is sincere this time in getting rid of the taliban. NO MORE GAMES!

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I hope those who were claiming how the locals are 100% behind this military operation will keep a lid on it because they are not, as indicated by this article as well.

Re: Army and Taleban- on the same side?

i doubt the local were even asked before launching the operation, heck the head of state didnt bother with the parliament before he went off to america. taliban and army are most definitely not the same however obviously those who are displaced will have no choice but to hold this view.

There is a difference between locals supporting "this" operation and locals supporting an operation against the Taliban.

Report after report says that locals are all for this despite the hardship provided army wipes out every trace of the Taliban.

What they don't want is some sort of half-hearted operation that leaves all leaders of the Taliban safe and then the army declares "success" and goes away.

Then the Taliban come back, kill anyone that spoke up against them and locals are worse off.

This is like removing bugs from your house.

You will be okay with moving furniture and even sleeping outside for a few days provided the bugs are all killed.

But you would rather not have all this trouble if the exterminator is not serious about removing the bugs.

That is what is frustrating the Swatis. I hope the army removes all doubts and shows its seriousness once and for all.

Most locals support an operation against the taliban as shown by this article and others. That they don't support the pakistan army is more because the army is interested in doing a show then actually killing taliban. If this keeps up, foreign forces will have to do the job.

It is good to see that military has finally decided what type of government they want. Taking these drastic measures will result in causalities and displacement. But ultimately it will lead to stronger and stable Pakistan for the future. After all civil war between south and North America just to decide whether they wanted slavery or not, resulted in millions of causalities and displacements but then thereafter America rose as most powerful nation on earth.

We can't even begin to comprehend the hardships of those displaced from their homes, their frustration are very justified. Curse the talibans for putting good people through this much suffering and agony. I pray that Pak army totally obliterates this taliban laanet from Pakistan and Swaitis can go back to their homes in their regions and dont have to live in the fear of being beheaded for shaving someone's beard or enjoying a little music.
Those who are not in support of the military operation at least admit this that pak army isn't there to occupy or massacre some innocent peace loving bunch, that these extremists are posing stiff resistance to a very large army with weaponry beyond your usual run of the mill AK47s, and after you realize this ask yourself whether you want these people in your country deciding the fate of people living under them. They should've at least proved to all of you that they are very well equipped to fight the military and if that is not against the laws of any country in the world, and if that is something no country would regard as threat then I don't know what is.

You can draw your own warped conclusions, twist what they say, or have translations done from 9-0, but the fact of the matter is simple, the locals there are against this army operation and oppose it. This operation will lead to increased resentment and will make the unit even more incoherent. There was a time when some 'angels' used to think the Afghan refugees are living in Pakistan, grateful for Pakistan's role and assistance, but we all know how that turned out to be, and exactly how much gratitude they showed.

Re: Army and Taleban- on the same side?

It turned out to be a good a tactic by army, PPP and ANP to eneter into negotiations with Taliban and sign a truce and let them break it. Due to this strategy, there never has been as much support for operation in the past, as it is now. But as happens in any conflict, the longer it lasts, more it becomes unpopular. Hopefully army can take bnack the areas swiftly and quickly.

that is reason why i call our collective intellect as rotten...
we would always find a mole in something.....

The reality is we are damned if there is an operation and damned if there is not.
People complain when the army does nothing, people complain when the army does something.
People complain when theres a democracy, people complain when theres a dictatorship.

How exactly should the situation be dealt with? Keeping the Taliban busy fighting at least stops them latching onto areas.

Do Swatis want Taliban to take control of Swat? or did Swatis come up with a solution on how to remove Taliban and proposed it to govt and they rejected it?

Re: Army and Taleban- on the same side?

^that's what I'm saying, what would you have us do? let the taliban be in swat because people are gonna be displaced? what about people are gonna be beheaded over there if don't do anything, what about suicide bombings if we don't bring their version of Islam in every part of Pakistan? have we all forgotten the bloody mess of suicide bombings all over the country? it wasn't too long ago.

Re: Army and Taleban- on the same side?

Remember Lal Masjid? Remember how some of you were cheering and wanting the Govt to just go in with soldiers, tiff and burn em all inside, who cares if some women and children were hiding inside or being taken hostage? Remember what happened after that? Leave aside the suicide attacks and all, the bitter resentment of the population was evident. Succesfull and invincible politicians like Shiekh Rashid became so unpopular based on their lal masjid stance that they didnt even manage 5K votes in a constituency where he used to bag over 80K votes! This is exactly how this operation is turning out to be.

We have other means to take out 200-300 insurgents rather than going to a full scale war, which can quite possibly result in a full scale civil war and the split of the country. It has happened before too. Despite what you say, these unhappy refugees wont have any praise for the Pak Govt, and their generations to come will have a miserable future thanks to this displacement and will grow up and become future talibs.

Re: Army and Taleban- on the same side?

The fault lies with the military. It cannot and does not know how to fight a counter insurgency and refuses to take training from the US because of self inflated ego. No wonder it is failing so badly and has never won a war in history.

If the army cannot defeat taliban, it should be dismantled and superior forces should take charge.

I never supported the operation in lal masjid, as much as mush and the army could aif up over there, they did. But what those people did, or their families or friends or sect, as a result of lal masjid i.e. suicide bombings all over the country and basically a slaughter of innocent pakistani who had absolutly nothing to do with the operation, who probably were their sympathizers, that was even worse than what mush made army do in lal masjid. And I hate that aspect of the situation more than what may have caused it.

You mean there are only 200-300 Taliban in Swat area? :eek:

Training from US for counter insurgency fighting? You got to be kidding, they are still a big failure in Afghanistan. They have no clue how to fight insurgencies, they only know drones or buckets of $$$.