Re: Are They Muslims?
^yes thats fairly accurate.
Re: Are They Muslims?
We dont know whats in his heart so we cant say that he's worshipping someone else other than Allah.
ofcourse we dont know, but we can judge by their actions. and i am afraid acts of PIMPS do say that only MONEY is what matters.
Re: Are They Muslims?
Why such importance to shirk?
And really... define shirk..."Worshipping other than Allah" I rightly assume that Allah is God? So actually all who are worshipping a superme being are worshipping God...and therefore in essence Allah.
Re: Are They Muslims?
@hanibal hmmmm...........still we cant call them kaafir or mushrik..........but they can be punished according to law.
Re: Are They Muslims?
Why such importance to shirk?
Allah is the greatest and the most High and the Lord of all, He is the King of the kings....thats why.
And really... define shirk..."Worshipping other than Allah" I rightly assume that Allah is God? So actually all who are worshipping a superme being are worshipping God...and therefore in essence Allah.
Yes, you're right I guess.......worshipping Allah the only One God.
The Holy Quran...surah 112
1. Say: He is Allah, the One and Only;
2. Allah, the Eternal, Absolute;
3. He begetteth not, nor is He begotten; 4. And there is none like unto Him.
Re: Are They Muslims?
Why such importance to shirk?
And really... define shirk..."Worshipping other than Allah" I rightly assume that Allah is God? So actually all who are worshipping a superme being are worshipping God...and therefore in essence Allah.
can u explain the underlined in detail
Re: Are They Muslims?
@hanibal hmmmm...........still we cant call them kaafir or mushrik..........but they can be punished according to law.
i think we need to work on this topic first;
if Islam is a Religion or a System
as to me, in Islamic System a PIMP do not exist!
Re: Are They Muslims?
people commit sins all the time. But we all have time to repent and rectify.
It is quite pathetic to judge others based on sins and conveniently ignore our own shortcommings. Islam tells us to not to look down upon people based on their worldly conditions... Islam tells us to call people towards haq and say the what is right and shun what is wrong
Re: Are They Muslims?
hate the wrong doings not the wrong doers.
Re: Are They Muslims?
people commit sins all the time. But we all have time to repent and rectify.
It is quite pathetic to judge others based on sins and conveniently ignore our own shortcommings. Islam tells us to not to look down upon people based on their worldly conditions... Islam tells us to call people towards haq and say the what is right and shun what is wrong
Interesting comment!
We should not be judging others by their worldly conditions ( can be correct on some situations)
Hareem says ( and i agree to that), we cannot judge what someone have in their hearts...( so i think, he can only be judged by his moral values and doings)
now here is a complexity.. how should we judge a pimp... we dont know what is in his/her heart... and we cannot judge him/her as per his wordly conditions...
How can we say then, that one is wrong or right!!!
Re: Are They Muslims?
can u explain the underlined in detail
Supreme Being....meaning unseen force/presence....I think thats what I can best explain it...
Re: Are They Muslims?
Interesting comment!
We should not be judging others by their worldly conditions ( can be correct on some situations)
Hareem says ( and i agree to that), we cannot judge what someone have in their hearts...( so i think, he can only be judged by his moral values and doings)
now here is a complexity.. how should we judge a pimp... we dont know what is in his/her heart... and we cannot judge him/her as per his wordly conditions...
How can we say then, that one is wrong or right!!!
Frankly, it is not our job to judge people :) But sadly we do it often.
The prophet never hated individuals based on their worldly crimes/sins .. instead he preached, trained and taught them to overcome their shortcommings. We are ordered to do the same.
Re: Are They Muslims?
Frankly, it is not our job to judge people :) But sadly we do it often.
The prophet never hated individuals based on their worldly crimes/sins .. instead he preached, trained and taught them to overcome their shortcommings. We are ordered to do the same.
This is one of the VERY FEW comments on GUPSHUP that actually make sense. Code_Red, may The God reward you for your winning attitude and your approach. This is how we progress.
Re: Are They Muslims?
Interesting comment!
We should not be judging others by their worldly conditions ( can be correct on some situations)
Hareem says ( and i agree to that), we cannot judge what someone have in their hearts...( so i think, he can only be judged by his moral values and doings)
now here is a complexity.. how should we judge a pimp... we dont know what is in his/her heart... and we cannot judge him/her as per his wordly conditions...
How can we say then, that one is wrong or right!!!
Anyone(even a pimp) who says with his mouth that he believes in Allah and the Last Prophet Muhammad(SAW) is a muslim and we cant call him a kaafir or mushrik...........but being a muslim its our duty to enjoin the good and forbid the evil with our hand, or mouth and if we cant do that then we should condemn the bad or evil in our heart.
Re: Are They Muslims?
^ 
Didn’t you recently post that a woman who doesn’t recognize (your version of) hijab is by action kafir?
As if that cultural aspect of Islam is a more important indicator of Muslimness than someone who is a pimp. 
Re: Are They Muslims?
Yes, …but I didn’t say ’ my version ’ of hijab.
I Also said that showing her body doesn’t make her kaafir but of course rejecting what Allah has order is kuffar, as kuffar means to reject truth, to reject after the knowledge.
Similarly a junky is doing kuffar by rejecting and ignoring Allah’s order, it doesn’t mean he is a kaafir, as long as he says Shahada(declaration of one God and finality of Prophet Muhammad(SAW)), but when he rejects Oneness of God or End of Prophethood then he’s a kaafir.
Re: Are They Muslims?
Folks:
I think this topic needs to be divided into those acts which are punishable/forgiveable by only Allah SWT and then, those which Allah SWT has given the authroity to humans to judge based upon evidence.
The way I have seen it in many many cases usually crimes that hurt humans directly are judged by humans or have been given authority to do so provided we stay within the confines of the proper limits and judge dispassionately based on evidence not whims and bias.
Throughout this thread the central theme seems to be revolving around SHIRK and PIMPS/KILLERS and there status in Islamic jurisprudence.
SHIRK has many forms however it is the one that has to do with worshipping or associating partners in Allah SWT power and glory that is to be judged by Allah SWT and not us, why do I think that way, because it would be a crime against Allah SWT and not a human. Other forms of shirk, which hurt human beings need to be reformed through either judicial systems (punitive actions) or rehabilatation (preaching, teaching, examples).
PIMPING or KILLING is a direct crime against humanity and to deal with such things so that the fabric of a human and muslim community is not destroyed, certain limits are in place and excercised to pass judgement on such people when evidence is established. Of course I would say these punitive actions do not have to be the same for all but may vary in severity based on the severity of the crime.
Re: Are They Muslims?
Peace All
Pimping and Killing and the likes can still fall into the category of shirk (without going into detail on this) ... that is what we need to be aware of.
But the initial question was this:
Are they Muslim?
One does not need to be a Muslim to be forgiven. However, the requirement for us humans is that we need to be 'Mutawahidun' - Monotheists i.e. The Opposite of Mushriks.
The Opposite of Mu'min (Believer) is Kaafir (Rejector)
So this means the opposite of Muslim (Submitter) must be Zalim (Aggressor).
I would not like to say that a PIMP is not a zalim, nor would I like to say that a PIMP is a Muslim. However, to be a Muslim simply means one who believes in the heart that Tawhid is the only right system of belief in God, so in this respect a PIMP may be a Muslim in accordance to that definition, but then he/she would still be one who is a Zalim or one who is committing Kufr by unIslamic actions. If a PIMP justifies his/her actions by interpreting the orders of God in such a way that it seems pimping is allowable then this is Shirk, because they have placed their nufs and reasoning above the law of God.
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Re: Are They Muslims?
Brother, this analysis is beautiful!
Peace All
Pimping and Killing and the likes can still fall into the category of shirk (without going into detail on this) ... that is what we need to be aware of.
But the initial question was this:
Are they Muslim?
One does not need to be a Muslim to be forgiven. However, the requirement for us humans is that we need to be 'Mutawahidun' - Monotheists i.e. The Opposite of Mushriks.
The Opposite of Mu'min (Believer) is Kaafir (Rejector)
So this means the opposite of Muslim (Submitter) must be Zalim (Aggressor).
I would not like to say that a PIMP is not a zalim, nor would I like to say that a PIMP is a Muslim. However, to be a Muslim simply means one who believes in the heart that Tawhid is the only right system of belief in God, so in this respect a PIMP may be a Muslim in accordance to that definition, but then he/she would still be one who is a Zalim or one who is committing Kufr by unIslamic actions. If a PIMP justifies his/her actions by interpreting the orders of God in such a way that it seems pimping is allowable then this is Shirk, because they have placed their nufs and reasoning above the law of God.