I ment who is timeless- who isnt born and never dies etc.
Thanks for sharing your knowledge Karakush penji/paaji... especially the last verse of the Quran that you gave... because i remember reading this verse before a long time ago... and i was trying to recall it earlier on today... which wasn't quite happening lol and i do think its amazing verse... which sums up everything and makes sense about all the religion(s)... this verse can also destroy all the hate between people of all the different faiths.
Penji/ paaji i totally agree with you that it will get alot more complicated and actually more fasinating aswell, taking all this God's game in... which is why i was quite hesitant to write about it because i thought everyone would either think that its a comment made without any thought or knowledge or a comment made to 'mislead people' which is why its best for people to study and decide for themselfs so they can come up with there own conclusions because there is too much stuff that its impossible to discuss all of it.
uksingh paaji/penji,
thats just what people repeat philosophically ke “this verse or that verse can destroy all hatred between people of diff faiths”.
life doesnt work that way. hatred aati kahan se hai?? do you know?? hatred comes because over the centuries too many people have stood up and given their own versions of the “ultimate truth”. all those versions had really nice stuff in them too. but followers of one set of “ultimate truth” wanna win over followers of the other set of “ultimate truth”. this created all the hatred.
if you want peace in the world, you must for a few seconds stop reading stuff from religious texts and just ask yourself a few simple questions… “why am i incapable of loving XYZ set of people” “why cant i just be kind without any expectations or ulterior motives”.
the bottomline is…if you want peace among all the people of the world, just remember 1 line which is there in every religion and is known as the golden rule
“Do unto others as you would have them do unto you” *
*matthew 7:1
analects 12:1
udana varga 5:1
mahabharata 5:15:17
sunnah
talmud shabbat 3id
tai shang kan yin p’ien
dadisten i dinik, 94:5
if you even forget your entire religion, just keep the above in mind and you wont need the rest of religion.
What kind of an assumption is this? Just because there's no mention of Hinduism doesn't mean Prophet Muhammad (SAW) was not aware of it. Had the Hindu texts been considered divine texts/books revealed by Allah (SWT), I'm sure there would've been a mention of it somewhere in the Quran.
Ahl-e-kitaab are the people of the book; that is Jews (Yahoodi) and Christians (Nasrani). Torah, Bible, and Zabur (not sure if its Psalms - not familiar with the English name) are the books that Allah (SWT) revealed to His (SWT) prophets Musa (AS), Isa (AS), and Dawud (AS). These are the Abrahamic faiths and their followers are referred to as ahl-e-kitaab (people of the book).
^ penji/paaji true... and well said and thanks for sharing the verse.
The way i view it is hatred is the result of people thinking that they are superior than others and us judging others... which is why i try to avoid judging people... because at the end of the day God is the only true judge who knows everything since he is the creator of all of us, which means we havent been given the right to hate any of God's creations... so i just leave everything to God... and i dont give myself the right to hate anyone... because all are created from the same clay regardless of caste religion or race, by the same potterer (God).
2:78 And there are among them unlettered people who have no real knowledge of the divine writ, [following] only wishful beliefs and depending on nothing but conjecture.
mythologies? epics? legends?
3:20 Thus, [O Prophet,] if they argue with thee, say, “I have surrendered my whole being unto God, and [so have] all who follow me!” - and ask those who have been vouchsafed revelation aforetime, as well as all unlettered people,[14]](IslamiCity - The Global Muslim eCommunity) “Have you [too] surrendered yourselves unto Him?” And if they surrender themselves unto Him, they are on the right path; but if they turn away - behold, thy duty is no more than to deliver the message: for God sees all that is in [the hearts of] His creatures.
unlettered=this word originally means that ‘‘those who r associated with makkah’’.the most ancient race,wen they did not know how to write and we know hinduism is the most ancient of all religions.Sanatan means Eternal or Universal Righteousness/truth/Tradition, which does not cease.but there r very few things in life which do not change.
anyways details/discussions will lead to useless bickering by self proclaimed scholars so i will keep myself extremely short.
62:3 and [to cause this message to spread] from them unto other people as soon as they come into contact with them: [2]](IslamiCity - The Global Muslim eCommunity) for He alone is almighty, truly wise!
**a tafseer by shah wali ullah [ra] for the above verse was published in 1941 in which he explained’‘i believe that if the hindus become dominant in hindustan in every repect then there is no reason why ,god willing, the whole hindu race wont convert to islam.’’
first portion of his belief n understanding has come true.maybe the second will too.point to ponder again is the reference in quran abt the first writings/message in addition to the people of the book.and the fact that Allah says if u dont behave he will replace us by another people.would it be too hard to swallow that hindus r our long lost brothers? **
Ahl-e-kitaab are the people of the book; that is Jews (Yahoodi) and Christians (Nasrani). Torah, Bible, and Zabur (not sure if its Psalms - not familiar with the English name) are the books that Allah (SWT) revealed to His (SWT) prophets Musa (AS), Isa (AS), and Dawud (AS). These are the Abrahamic faiths and their followers are referred to as ahl-e-kitaab (people of the book).
this assumption wasn't given by me. It was given by naved, which i think he too had assumed. Besides, by his name i think he is a muslim. So he would be knowing much better than me. When i said "i got it", "I too had assumed his assumptions"....:D .
Besides, whether hinduism is mentioned in quran or not, on this we had a fight(heated debate) in some other thread. I gave "my" conclusions also in the end in that thread. I dont want get into this topic again. Moreover, in that thread i never made an attempt to include hindu gods into quran or whatever. and i still stand by it. Everybody(followers of islam) said that hindus or indians not included, so thats it, as u know better than us about quran. Besides, who cares whether it is there or not.
Allah subhanahu wa ta 'ala tells us in the Qur'an of only 25 Prophets by their names:
Adam
Sheeth
Idris(Enoch)
Nuh(Noah)
Hud
Saleh
Ibrahim(Abraham)
Ismail(Ishmael)
Ishaaq (Isaac)
Lut (Lot)
Yaqub(Jacob)
Yusuf(Joseph)
Shu'aib
Ayyub(Job)
Musa(Moses)
Harun(Aaron)
Dhul-Kifl(Ezekiel)
Dawud (David)
Sulaiman(Solomon)
Ilyas (Elijah)
Yunus (Jonah)
Zakariya (Zechariah)
Yahya (John)
Isa (Jesus)
Alaiyhimis-Salaam (Upon them all be peace).
Muhammad al-Mustafa (Sal' Allahu 'alaiyhi wa sallam)
There were Five (5) Major books (Risalah) given to humanity by our Prophets from Allah (swt):
Prophet Ibrahim - Sahifah (scrolls)
Prophet Musa - Taurat (Torah)
Prophet Dawud - Zabur(Psalms)
Prophet Isa - Injil (Gospel)
(alaiyhis-salaam)
Prophet Muhammad (Sal' Allahi 'alaiyhi wa sallam) - Qur'an al-Karim
The Ulul ul-A'dham were (5) Five of the Prophets who underwent the most difficulty because they had accomplished the task ordained to them by Allah (swt) in the most difficult of times. They are:
Prophet Nuh
Prophet Musa
Prophet Isa
Prophet Ibrahim (alaiyhimis-salaam)
Prophet Muhammad al-Mustafa (Sal' Allahu 'alaiyhi wa sallam)
Although the descriptions of only the above mentioned of the Prophets (alaiyhimis-salaam) is given in the Qur'an, The Most Beloved Messenger of Allah Muhammad al-Mustafa (saws) informed us that there were 124,000 Prophets in total as recorded in the Musnad of Imam Ahmed ibn Hanbal, (5,169)
In the Qur'an, Allah (swt) clearly tells us:
"We sent not an apostle except (to teach) in the language of his (own) people, in order to make (things) clear to them. Now Allah leaves straying those whom He pleases and guides whom He pleases: and He is Exalted in power, full of Wisdom."
Surah Ibrahim (Abraham) (14): Ayah 4
"Verily We have sent thee [Prophet Muhammad s.a.w.s] in truth, as a bearer of glad tidings, and as a warner: and there never was a people, without a warner having lived among them (in the past)."
Surah al-Fatir (The Originator of Creation) (35): Ayah 24
"Who receiveth guidance, receiveth it for his own benefit: who goeth astray doth so to his own loss: No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another: nor would We visit with Our Wrath until We had sent an apostle (to give warning)."
Surah al-Isra (Night Journey to Bait al-Maqdis), Ayah 15
**To every people (was sent) an apostle: when their apostle comes (before them), the matter will be judged between them with justice, and they will not be wronged. **
Surah an-Nasr (The Help): Ayat 47
There may be many religions once of Divine origin which have become distorted and lost their truth. That is why we cannot definitely say that such and such persons were sent as prophets to such and such places. We may speculate that Confucius, Buddha were prophets, but it can be only speculation. I am not saying that they were prophets. What history merely tells us about those men is not satisfactory, and based upon information gathered from different sources.
Yet, it's known that at the time Confucius and Buddha lived, their teachings influenced great numbers of people. What is practiced today by their followers is no doubt because of distortions in the original teachings, and does not appeal to sense and nature; rather it is extremely unnatural: who can be attracted to the sanctification of animals, or the extremes of asceticism and sense deprivation, or to such customs as the cremation of wives with their deceased husbands?
To say that someone is a prophet when he is not is kufr in Islam, an unbelief as grave as refusing to believe in a true prophet. We can only say that it may have been that they were prophets, given the hadith of Rasul-Allah (saws) that mentions either 124 or 224 thousand prophets as having appeared in all parts of the world. In the light of this hadith, when we look at the various religious beliefs and practices in different places of the world are better understood.
Many Native American Indians believe in One God who never eats and drinks nor is constrained by time; and that He rules and governs all things in the universe, everything, without exception, being under His sovereignty and dependent on His will. They also refer to some of God’s attributes that He has no partner, and if He did, there would surely be conflicts between the partners.
It seems that true Messengers conveyed these truths to them, truths still present in what remains of soundness in their actual, present beliefs. As the original Message was passed down the generations it may have suffered alterations until it became confused and obscured.
There are also two views amongst Muslims as to who the Prophet Dhul-Kifl may have been.
In Arabic, Dhu' al-Kifl means "Belonging to Kifl" or "From Kifl". The actual city in which Buddha lived most of his life, was called Kapilbastu, now known as Kapilbastu, Nepal.
Even though it is held by many Muslims as well that he was Prophet Ezekiel as mentioned in the Bible, some Muslims also believe that Dhul-Kifl refers to Siddharta Gauthama Buddha, and that the place where he lived for 30 years of his life was called "Kapilbastu" also known as al-Kifl as Allah (swt) mentioned him in the Qur'an:
And (remember) Isma'il, Idris, and Zul-kifl, all (men) of constancy and patience; We admitted them to Our mercy: for they were of the righteous ones.
Surah al-Anbiya (The Prophets): Ayah 85-86
We cannot say for sure of who Dhu' al-Kifl was - what we can be sure of that Allah (swt) did not send but a warner on haqq (truth) to all peoples of the world. Through the passage of time, their beliefs became distorted and corrupted by their nafs (desires of the self) and the whisperings of evil by the accursed one.
Muhammad al-Mustafa (Sal' Allahu 'alaiyhi wa sallam)
There were Five (5) Major books (Risalah) given to humanity by our Prophets from Allah (swt):
Prophet Ibrahim - Sahifah (scrolls)
Prophet Musa - Taurat (Torah)
Prophet Dawud - Zabur(Psalms)
Prophet Isa - Injil (Gospel)
(alaiyhis-salaam)
Prophet Muhammad (Sal' Allahi 'alaiyhi wa sallam) - Qur'an al-Karim
The Ulul ul-A'dham were (5) Five of the Prophets who underwent the most difficulty because they had accomplished the task ordained to them by Allah (swt) in the most difficult of times. They are:
Prophet Nuh
Prophet Musa
Prophet Isa
Prophet Ibrahim (alaiyhimis-salaam)
Prophet Muhammad al-Mustafa (Sal' Allahu 'alaiyhi wa sallam)
Although the descriptions of only the above mentioned of the Prophets (alaiyhimis-salaam) is given in the Qur'an, The Most Beloved Messenger of Allah Muhammad al-Mustafa (saws) informed us that there were 124,000 Prophets in total as recorded in the Musnad of Imam Ahmed ibn Hanbal, (5,169)
In the Qur'an, Allah (swt) clearly tells us:
"We sent not an apostle except (to teach) in the language of his (own) people, in order to make (things) clear to them. Now Allah leaves straying those whom He pleases and guides whom He pleases: and He is Exalted in power, full of Wisdom."
Surah Ibrahim (Abraham) (14): Ayah 4
"Verily We have sent thee [Prophet Muhammad s.a.w.s] in truth, as a bearer of glad tidings, and as a warner: and there never was a people, without a warner having lived among them (in the past)."
Surah al-Fatir (The Originator of Creation) (35): Ayah 24
"Who receiveth guidance, receiveth it for his own benefit: who goeth astray doth so to his own loss: No bearer of burdens can bear the burden of another: nor would We visit with Our Wrath until We had sent an apostle (to give warning)."
Surah al-Isra (Night Journey to Bait al-Maqdis), Ayah 15
**To every people (was sent) an apostle: when their apostle comes (before them), the matter will be judged between them with justice, and they will not be wronged. **
Surah an-Nasr (The Help): Ayat 47
There may be many religions once of Divine origin which have become distorted and lost their truth. That is why we cannot definitely say that such and such persons were sent as prophets to such and such places. We may speculate that Confucius, Buddha were prophets, but it can be only speculation. I am not saying that they were prophets. What history merely tells us about those men is not satisfactory, and based upon information gathered from different sources.
Yet, it's known that at the time Confucius and Buddha lived, their teachings influenced great numbers of people. What is practiced today by their followers is no doubt because of distortions in the original teachings, and does not appeal to sense and nature; rather it is extremely unnatural: who can be attracted to the sanctification of animals, or the extremes of asceticism and sense deprivation, or to such customs as the cremation of wives with their deceased husbands?
To say that someone is a prophet when he is not is kufr in Islam, an unbelief as grave as refusing to believe in a true prophet. We can only say that it may have been that they were prophets, given the hadith of Rasul-Allah (saws) that mentions either 124 or 224 thousand prophets as having appeared in all parts of the world. In the light of this hadith, when we look at the various religious beliefs and practices in different places of the world are better understood.
Many Native American Indians believe in One God who never eats and drinks nor is constrained by time; and that He rules and governs all things in the universe, everything, without exception, being under His sovereignty and dependent on His will. They also refer to some of God’s attributes that He has no partner, and if He did, there would surely be conflicts between the partners.
It seems that true Messengers conveyed these truths to them, truths still present in what remains of soundness in their actual, present beliefs. As the original Message was passed down the generations it may have suffered alterations until it became confused and obscured.
There are also two views amongst Muslims as to who the Prophet Dhul-Kifl may have been.
In Arabic, Dhu' al-Kifl means "Belonging to Kifl" or "From Kifl". The actual city in which Buddha lived most of his life, was called Kapilbastu, now known as Kapilbastu, Nepal.
Even though it is held by many Muslims as well that he was Prophet Ezekiel as mentioned in the Bible, some Muslims also believe that Dhul-Kifl refers to Siddharta Gauthama Buddha, and that the place where he lived for 30 years of his life was called "Kapilbastu" also known as al-Kifl as Allah (swt) mentioned him in the Qur'an:
And (remember) Isma'il, Idris, and Zul-kifl, all (men) of constancy and patience; We admitted them to Our mercy: for they were of the righteous ones.
Surah al-Anbiya (The Prophets): Ayah 85-86
We cannot say for sure of who Dhu' al-Kifl was - what we can be sure of that Allah (swt) did not send but a warner on haqq (truth) to all peoples of the world. Through the passage of time, their beliefs became distorted and corrupted by their nafs (desires of the self) and the whisperings of evil by the accursed one.
Please note that Hindus have knowledge about divine writ, and the Ramayanas and Mahabharats were no conjecture or myths.
The palace of the Pandavas in Hastinapur (Delhi) survives to this day, and so does the place where an assasination attempt was made on them as well as the battlefield of Kurukshetra (thank God Radcliffe handed it to India, else it would have been claimed that Pandavas werent Hindus).
The place where Lord Krishna was born is half-destroyed and a mosque
stands in its place in Mathura.
[quote] unlettered=this word originally means
that ''those who r associated with makkah''.the most ancient race,wen
they did not know how to write and we know hinduism is the most ancient
of all religions.
[/quote]
And they knew how to read and write (even the
ancient Harappans did, who in fact contributed to Hinduism).
[quote]
a
tafseer by shah wali ullah [ra] for the above verse was published in
1941 in which he explained
[/quote]
[quote]
''i believe that if the
hindus become dominant in hindustan in every repect then there is no
reason why ,god willing, the whole hindu race wont convert to
islam.''
[/quote]
Mr. shah wali ullah, thanks, but we're
alright. Anyway, a true muslim never goes about asking others to
convert.
[quote]
What kind of an assumption is this? Just because there's no
mention of Hinduism doesn't mean Prophet Muhammad (SAW) was not aware
of it. Had the Hindu texts been considered divine texts/books revealed
by Allah (SWT), I'm sure there would've been a mention of it somewhere
in the Quran.
[/quote]
Sadiyah sahab, whether Hinduism was mentioned in the Koran or not, or whether Hinduism's books were considered divine or not does not bother us.
We dont need a stamp of approval from Muslims. The Bhagawad Gita is a revelation by the almighty, and so is the story of Ramayana (enacted by an incarnation of Lord Vishnu himself). The Vedas are also considered holy, because they were instructed to be studied by all gods, even though they were written by learned Brahmins.
Do Hindu scholars do debates asking if Prophet Mohammad was mentioned or slightly hinted anywhere in the Vedas or whether Muslims must convert to Hinduism or any such thing ?
They just recite a few mantras, and sit in meditation at the banks of the Ganges or the Himalayas.
I am not sure if the following has already been discussed here.**
Mahrishi Vyasa **is the compiler of the Puranas and is as you should know highly honoured by Hindus and known as a great rishi and learned person. He was a pious and God-fearing man. In the eighteen volumes of the Puranas, it is mentioned in the **Bhavishya Puran (book of Future Events) **which Hindus consider as the word of God, in Prati Sarg Parv III: 3, 3, Verse 5:
"His name will be Muhammad"
Furthermore, in the first part of verse 5, the word **Malecha **appears, which means,
**"a man from a foreign nation speaking a foreign language" **
Before the arrival of Muslims into India in 711 C.E. or soon later, the word Malecha was described in the Puranas as "a man of good actions, sharp intellect, spiritual eminence, and showing reverence to the deity (God)"
Therefore, the entire verse 5 reads in english:
A malecha (belonging to a foreign country and speaking foreign language) spiritual teacher will appear with his companions. His name will be Muhammad.
There are many other prophecies in Atharva Veda: (1) XX: 21, Mantras 6, 7, and 9, (2) XX: 137, Mantras 7 through 9, and (3) X: 2, Mantras 26, 27, 29, 30, and 32. Similarly, in Rig Veda, additional prophecies are found in: (1) VII: 96, Mantras 13 through 16, and (2) I: 53, Mantras 6 and 9. Finally, a prophecy is found in Sama Veda III: 10, Mantra 1. These are a sample of many prophecies.
Please refer to the scholarly work of:
Dr. A.H. Vidyarthi, entitled “Muhammad in World Scriptures,” 1990. This book explains the Hindu terminology used in the Mantras and the meaning and usage of certain words and phrases from within the Vedas and other Hindu Scriptures.
We dont need a stamp of approval from Muslims. The Bhagawad Gita is a revelation by the almighty, and so is the story of Ramayana (enacted by an incarnation of Lord Vishnu himself). The Vedas are also considered holy, because they were instructed to be studied by all gods, even though they were written by learned Brahmins.
I'm not the one who came up with the question. I merely answered it.
Paaji/penji i think u might of missed the point mentioned earlier... that Hindus do believe in one God, according to the Vedas. However where the Hindus differ from most Monotheistic faiths is that they believe in that God has avartars.
"His name will be Muhammad"
If I'm not mistaken the word used was Madan Mohan which somehow was mistakenly rumored to be mohan madan and then interpreted as Mohammad.
[quote]
Before the arrival of Muslims into India in 711 C.E. or soon later, the word Malecha was described in the Puranas as "a man of good actions, sharp intellect, spiritual eminence, and showing reverence to the deity (God)"
[/quote]
Mlecchha usually meant a bad person (mostly) from the west. And a deity means one of the many Gods in Hinduism. Prophet Mohammad did not worship a deity.
About the other references, I dont have much time right now, (as exams are coming up), but I will post all about them for sure at a later date.
I got to see Zakir Naik's lecture on QTV about this topic.
Actually, I dont think it was Mohammad that was being refered to.
I think that the Vedas did mention Muhammed but as A'mhed.
And Guru Nanak, his 9 succesors... and a silent stage was also prophecised by the Vedas.
Also the Vedas prophecised a coming of another kalki avtar... which many people think is the Baha'ullah of the Bahai faith which began in the late 18'00s.
ssingh Paaji/ penji i think dhimmy means non-Muslim, but not too sure.