Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

Hangout GupShup Cafe
, , , ,
21

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

I don't know wtf are you doing in Pakistan if you can't walk around with your eyes open. Arabisation has been happening since a long time. Urdu words are being replaced by Arabic and people try to use arab accent and sound extremely dumb. I have seen couple of license plates that say "Al Bakistan" with arabic numbers. Everyone now ends their sentence with inshallah, mashallah, jazakallah etc. which they never used to before. I think you are either one of them or you are too naive. Arabization may not be as rampant but its happening.

And Wahabi/Salafi maybe minority but its gaining ground. That why its called arabization of Pakistan. If it was majority it had already been an Arab country. Just an FYI, stay off the cool aid

22

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

have some shame and get knowledge. Urdu contains words from every language. bongian na maro, saying nshallah, mashallah, jazakallah is arabization, lolz.

23

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

... then you are the naive one. It may be not rampant but its happening. No one can deny it. Anyways, Shame! Shame! Shame! ding ding

24

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

^lolzzz

25

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

^it used to be lulz. With Arabization, became lolzzz.

Triple ding.

26

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

oh really :rolleyes: how pissed are you LF :rolleyes: surely this much pissed-ness is haram during ramzan :rolleyes: why don’t you chill and have some fruit “chart” :rolleyes:

27

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

I totally disagree. Which part of Pakistan you hail from? Let people who actually live in the country paint the real picture! It makes no sense for sense of expats to take offence when Pakistanis set the record straight for their country. All hell breaks loose here when a stupid old worthless Pakistani tries to make a sweeping judgement (God forbid) about Amreeka. All Auntiyaan and kids go berserk.

I haven't seen any such phenomena in Pakistan. Words like InshAllah, MashAllah have always been part of Urdu language (surprise surprise Urdu the language has taken awful lot of vocabulary from Arabic...shock horror the Urdu language script is a derivation of Arabic script).

Just because back in the days, there was no internet, whatsapp, Facebook, Twitter, mobile phone to see and record those words on daily basis, doesn't mean those words were not used! Pretty naive to assume that.

The phenomenon of Arabisation of Pakistan the country is laughable and is nothing but crass, bitter, aggressive politically motivated exaggeration. It often comes from people who don't even live in the country! Yet they have the audacity to make such sweeping remarks about a culturally, ethnically, lingually, religiously, geographically and environmentally diverse country of 180 million people.

Talk about Arabisation of Muslim communities and it is indeed a real phenomenon and I can write a whole book on it. Part of the reason behind such change is due to bunch of confused inferiority complex ridden Asians who have turned the word 'desi' into such a pejorative term to the point that young generation don't think it's 'cool' to have any association with culture, so they tend to vouch for pan Arabism to fit into the larger Muslim community of the West.

The recent example from UK: An ordinary Bengali Moulvi being called 'Shai-ekhhh' by fellow Bengalis, Indians and Pakistanis. However, In Pakistan, words like Qari Sahab, Moulana Sahab, Mufti Sahab etc are still commonly used for clerics, not Shai-ekkhhh.

28

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

The superficial westernisation of Pakistan which is only limited to clothing, communication and consumerism is far more rampant in Pakistan, and lot more dangerous because this is perhaps the single biggest reason behind the increasingly prejudicial and widening class divides in the country. You want to be seen as an educated, 'upper class' and hip and exert everyday little influence in Pakistan: communicate in some iffy English accent, consume 'imported' processed food from 'superstores' and wear western clothes. That's it. Anyone who lives in Pakistan, had been there and seen enough of the country would agree with this assessment to some extent.

You see in Urdu we say: *naqal ke liye bhi aqal chahiye - *none of this would have been a problem if Westernisation was being practised in governance, science, technology, law etc.

But still the point is: do not generalise the the antics of Pakistanis living in Western countries to a country called Pakistan - because these are two totally different things.

29

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

If you're going to accuse others of 'sweeping remarks' you might want to stay away from them yourself, Jolie..

And the irony in mentioning 'exaggeration' whilst using such language..

30

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

In don't care about your nit picking Deeba, I really don't. If only you could read, I had explicitly used the word 'bunch' meaning a tiny minority hellbent on demonising anything and everything 'desi' and desi culture ahem ahem. Hardly a definition of sweeping remark against a country or is it? The tone of my post was as good as the tone of the post I quoted.

Now get all defensive coz you know exactly what I am talking about.

31

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

"Part of the reason behind such change is due to bunch of confused inferiority complex ridden Asians who have turned the word 'desi' into such a pejorative term to the point that young generation don't think it's 'cool' to have any association with culture, so they tend to vouch for pan Arabism to fit into the larger Muslim community of the West."

So here "bunch of Asians" is a minority. I didn't get that impression upon reading multiple times.

I wonder if the young generation referred to is also a "minority" of young generation.

32

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

Mostly I have exactly the same views as you, being a PTI supporter, so how can the bold bit be even true? What political motivations are you even talking about? :konfused:

As for your last two quoted paragraphs above, I entirely agree. The Muslim community here in UK (and most of them Pakistanis not Indians or Bengalis), before I get jumped on let me clarify the Muslim community** I have seen around me**, are dumping their own culture and adopting Arab customs which is what I wanted to get across before and by looks of it failed miserably.

33

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

Pretty much always agree with whatever you have to say on the politics forum. You're usually very clued up but I'm afraid you have your eyes closed on this one.

Pakistani's - in Pakistan and abroad - do look at Arabs with lovey dovey eyes. Not sure whether you live in Pakistan or how long you have lived there but I'm fairly certain I'd have you beat on that account. Even if I don't, I was born in Pakistan, I grew up in Pakistan and I've spent (and spend) enough time in Pakistan to have an idea of how society has changed and is changing - at lower, middle and upper class levels, especially over the past decade or so and especially for people my age. I know exactly how diverse Pakistan is, thanks. You don't need to be condescending and try to educate me about my beloved country.

Pakistan is still for the most part a very religious country - people associate Arabs with religion. I've seen it in so many mosques, in Pakistan and abroad. People think just because Arabs are descendants of the prophets they are some holy deities above and beyond us mere mortals. The way people dress, the way people talk, the stupid divisive views they hold - a lot of it comes from Arabs. Come on, you're very politically aware, I'm sure you know exactly what I'm talking about. We've always had nutcases in Pakistan but the surge of hate views and crime has exponentially increased over the past decade and a half, for a variety of reasons, a big part of which are Arabs and their influence, on a number of levels.

34

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

It wasn’t for you. My language may have been very brash, but I was quite annoyed by Pisiform’s self important and all knowing attitude where two posters from Pakistan (born and lived there their entire lives - work there) tried to correct his largely generalising remarks and he’s simply dismissed their views telling one of them they’d been living under a rock and how that they need to open their eyes. Come on…that’s like someone sitting in Alabama lecturing us how they know more about everyday life in UK than us, and how our opinions don’t hold an iota of validity.

It’s like just because you don’t like Saudi Arabia, you will use proxy of Arabisation to unjustly bash other countries for having any association with her.

I’ve been to Pakistan, you’ve been to Pakistan - how much of cultural Arabisation do you see in Pakistan? Give an honest answer.

35

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

Seeing (desi) people wearing Arab style clothing, using Arabic terms and pronouncing words with the Arabic version of the letters (instead of Urdu ones) has never bothered me.

36

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

http://emojipedia.org/wp-content/uploads/2013/07/160x160x19-unamused-face.png.pagespeed.ic.r16jC4jaLA.jpg

37

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

I completely agree with what you are saying, and I have seen on this every forum how Arab cultural practices are glorified, equated with Islam and everything 'desi' is dismissed and demonised. Even the word is hardly ever used in a positive light. But such extreme lovey dovey following of Arabs is far more common in Muslim communities living in West than Pakistan - doesn't mean it doesn't exist is Pakistan, but the extent is still under control. Pakistanis still love their shalwar kameez, languages, landscapes, cuisine, arts and culture and traditions....yes sectarian confusion was allowed to creep in deliberately in but even that will be dealt with in near future. One could already see the relevant signs emerging.

As far as the whole lovey dovey view of Arab goes in Pakistan, it is generally the results of Pakistan's post 70s/80s foreign policy when during the age of limited information and state controlled media, Arabs were seen as the friend of Pakistan for all the economic support and political co-operation with both civilian and military rulers. The recent example would be Nawaz Sharif - he's practically like a Saudi prince ruling an Asian state called Pakistan but because we have free media and far more access to information in the country, his support is generally dwindling for being too pro Saudi (and Indian). It is perhaps the first time in contemporary history that Pakistanis had raised some very valid and critical opposition to Saudi $1.5 billion 'gift'. The country collectively exhaled a massive sign of relief when Army refused to get involved in Yemen crises. So yes, I really think it is unfair to paint Pakistanis with such broad brush generalisations.

Whilst Pakistanis had financial and political reasons to appreciate Arabs (it didn't just come out of blue). But from my very personal observation, the most vociferously anti desi Western Muslims emulate Arabs because of some kind of disdain or lack of respect of their own culture. Some of them genuinely suffer from Islam = Arab culture complex. To be honest, I really don't mind some of those second and third generation Asians emulating Arabs as long as they don't try to paint Pakistanis/Pakistani culture as inferior.

If one studies the cultural and artistic sensibilities of Pakistan, you'd notice that we have a more notable influence from Persia than Arab. But the 1970s. Islamic Revolution and sanctions on Iran didn't help our case and we ended up losing that delicate Persian leaning in our modern national culture. Despite all the carelessness and exploitation on sectarian grounds, it was only in Pakistan that Iran was seen as the most favoured country! We are not as blindly pro Saudi or Arab as some people would like us to paint. There is indeed something so awfully Pakistani (in abundance) in most Pakistanis...

38

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

By the way, I did not even think about either yours or Shak's posts when I was typing up my post on the previous page. Only just read your edited post now where you thought I was lecturing you and educating you about your owm country, when I clearly wasn't. I quoted the person whom I wanted to get the message but clearly it didn't work very well.

I think I have said what I needed to say on this topic. Everyone is free to place Pakistanis in black and white divisions. Either they're all Arab loving fasaadi religious zealots or wannabe Western hippies. Honestly I can't be bothered about this crap any more.

Arabanisation, Indianisation, Westernisation, Persianisation, Urdunisation, Punjabnisation.........at any given time there is always a certain group crying about one influence or the other. These are pointless and depressing debates - totally hopeless too.

39

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

expats? born and raised in Karachi son!

40

Re: Arabification of Pakistan and Pakistani culture:

I have seen people of my city (Sialkot) using "Al Bakistan" on their vehicle number plates. Apparently, its the latest trend there.