Approx size of Hazrat Adam A.S

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Approx size of Hazrat Adam A.S

well that is by definition a miracle then. because physical laws man has discovered so far at least says matter/energy cannot be created.

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and let me categorically say that I am indeed not doing it. Thanks TLK for clarifying it. :)

Sure, it may mean that and as you said Imam Bukhari with all his research of years and getting ahadeeth from different chains of narrations goofed up and added "60 Cubit" (as one of the hadith quoted here) from his own. Remember you can not say his shaan pahaaron se bhee oonchee hai like 60 cubit. right?

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Actually it is not.

Because what Al Mubdi means is that there was no particle of any kind or sand etc. and Allah created Earth. But if you really want, you can say that creation of matter and physical objects to begin with is a miracle of God and science has no answer to that. :)

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Re: Approx size of Hazrat Adam A.S

Arabs, used to use numbers to show the grandness or abundance of something. 72 hoors is one example. That number 72 merely means 'many'. Similarly we say respectful statements like "aray wo to bohut qadawar shaksiyat hain". Does that mean that the person we are talking about is 30 feet tall?

and when you talk about the word cubit, I dont know the arabic word of that and in what other context it could be used as.

My question is that if Adam was 60 feet, then maybe Nooh was 50, and Ibrahim was maybe 40 feet if not 30 or 20. Can we substantiate that? We found human skeleton that was 3.2 million years old. She was only 110 lbs and 47 inches tall. Now let me ask you this. Why would Allah, through his prophet, make some claims, and then plant fossils in earth to contradict those claims?

I think its about time we should start looking at things with more scientific perspectives, cause Science is also created by Allah. We should stop treating science like we treat shaitaan.

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i don't know why you are being so shy about accepting that God performs miracles. :\

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TLK, I understand what you are trying to say and coming from. A very exact question was answered at Islam QA site. I do not have the capacity to explain better than that so I would share the link here, I hope it’s not a problem?:

Islam Question and Answer - He is amazed by the height of Adam (peace be upon him)

not shy at all. I want you to first accept that God created all this and then we will go to the next step of the ladder believing that God performs miracles. What you say? :slight_smile:

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lol i don't believe in that, so why would i accept that? on the other hand, you believe God is all powerful, and can defy the laws of physics at any time he wishes, and perform miracles.

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interesting. so you do not believe in that but you are questioning if I believe in the belief I already believe? :D... very naughty!

sure I do. And believe that he has done so in the past. I do not think I will shy away from that belief of mine. What is the issue here?

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Re: Approx size of Hazrat Adam A.S

okay so then what you believe is, the earth was 10%, or 1/10th of its current size while the dinosaurs roamed, and then God made it larger progressively, with mankind being introduced on the earth at some point. And that mankind has grown shorter and shorter as the earth has expanded.

Is this an accurate summary?

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Re: Approx size of Hazrat Adam A.S

Nope. Remember I started with "Not sure if it is all true" because there is no religious text supporting all of the above that I am aware of except one and that is that mankind has grown shorter (ref: hadith in the url quoted to TLK). All other things being discussed here are "theories" and that is all. If there is any text, I at least am not aware of it.

I only believe that God created earth and some millions years later He created Adam and Eve (and the discussion is about his height and I have stated my belief on it.) and we all are progeny of Adam. That's all.

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According to science, Hazrat Isa a.s. doesn't exist because no virgin can give birth. So a man performing miracles that defy logic is out of the question. Any physicist will tell you that partitioning of the ocean with a little stick is practically impossible and laughable. But I'm guessing you believe in all of this with all your heart. This is where Imaan comes in. How will you validate your imaan to your fellow non-religious physicists in the light of science?

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Surrogate mothers can be virgin, technically. no?

I am not saying that miracles cannot happen. But Adam's height was not a miracle. It sounds like a natural process that Allah chose, i.e starting humans from giant size and reducing their height every few generations. That phenomena is not new. We have modern day south American lizards that are merely a size of big cat, who are descendants of God like lizards ( Godzilla :D), or Dinosaurs as we know them. But then we have fossils as proofs.

If something that happened once (splitting of ocean, a journey to heavens, walking stick turning into snake) then we believe in it as a miracle. But if something is part of our natural cycle (shortening of heights in this case), we cant take it as a miracle, and need some observational proof.

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I want to ask one thing from all. However I believe that Islam prefers quality over quantity, Tabligh-e-deen still is one of the social obligation on Muslims. Dont we think that sticking to the guns on such issues where observations and modern day proofs contradict the narrations, would actually be counterproductive when it comes to Tabligh?

There are about 7000 members of flat earth society who is spite of all the proofs still believe that earth is flat. You think people would think of them as lunatics and probably trsy to stay away from them?

Why do you think that people would not think of us as that?

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That all makes sense to me which is why I previously agreed with what you were saying and left the thread at that.

But science does not differentiate between the two like you and I do. Science does not accept miracles either. It demands observational proof for natural processes as well as the mere existence of God. So if you were to look at religion with a scientific perspective, all of it would go out the window. Science k liye hadith kya or Quran kya, t'is all the same, t'is all a lie unless otherwise proven.

But I do agree that muslims should study science with an open mind with regards to topics like evolution, and the topic being discussed in this thread.

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Re: Approx size of Hazrat Adam A.S

Peace All,

The science of modern cosmology, observational and theoretical, clearly indicates that, at one point in time, the whole universe was nothing but a cloud of ‘smoke’. This is one of the undisputed principles of standard modern cosmology.

Almighty Allah said in Quran Chapter 41 verse 11: “Moreover He comprehended in His design the sky, and it had been (as) smoke: He said to it and to the earth: “Come ye together, willingly or unwillingly.” They said: "We do come (together), in willing obedience.” If we see above verses from Chapter 79 verse 30-31: “And after that He spread the earth He extracted from it its water and its pasture…”

It would appear as if the earth was spread out after the sky was made. In the present passage the creation of the earth and the evolution of life on our globe are mentioned first: and the making of the sky into the seven firmaments is mentioned last. The two statements are not inconsistent. It is stated here that when the sky was made into seven firmaments, it has existed previously as smoke, or sapour, or steam the idea driven from a collation of the relevant quranic passage is that god first created primeval matter, which was as yet without order, shape or symmetry. This state is called Choas as opposed to Cosmos in Greek Cosmogony. The next stage would be the condensation of this primeval matter into gases, liquids, or solids: on this subject no precise information is given us; it belongs to the realm of physics. About the earth we are told of our stages or days, and about the heavens, of two stages or days. If these stages proceeded or proceed together in time, it is obvios that each stage as we know it on earth is half as long as each stage in the heavens. But these are questions of physics, astronomy, or geology not questions of religion.

Earth and the heavens (sun, the moon, stars, planets, galaxies, etc.,) have been formed from the same ‘smoke’ (as mentioned in above verse). See the above video clip: Earth and heaven were one connected entity. Then out of this homogeneous ‘smoke’, they formed and separated from each other. Almighty Allah has said in the Quran: “Have not those who disbelieve known that the heaven and earth were connected entity, then We separated them…” (Chapter 21 verse 30).

Interesting read: "Dr. Alfred Kroner is one of the world’s renowned gelogists. He is professor of Geology and the Chairman of the Department of Geology at the Institute of Geoscienses, Johannes Gutenberg University, Mainz, Germany. He said: "Thinking where Muhammad came from…I think it is almost impossible that he could have known about things like the common origin of the universe, because scientists have only found out within the last few years, with very complicated and advanced technological methods, that this is the case." Also he said: “*Somebody who did not know something about nuclear physics fourteen hundred years ago could not, I think, be in a position to find out from his own mind, for instance, that the earth and the heaven had the same orgigin.”
*

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some excellent points here. are you going to pick and choose your level of faith in miracles on a case by case basis? but then isn't this what people do with scripture and religious rulings - pick and choose what suits their lifestyle, societal and cultural norms, and personal degree of comfort with ideas that may defy rationality?

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Peace TLK

That is not entirely fair ... Our scriptures do not say the Earth is flat, but they do say that people were tall ...

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Not entirely true, since asexual reproduction does occur in nature. It's just that it hasn't been scientifically studied in humans yet. Look up Parthenogenesis.

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No need for sarcasm queer. I can't put down a reference or quote because I read this a while back in a book. As for the smaller planet, bigger creatures due to reduced gravity thing I got that from my Physics teacher in High school. He didn't give me a reference.

Speaking the "amazing glorious truth".

I apologise for the lack of reference.

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Pick and choose from hadiths? Sure, why not? TLK bhai mentioned the word aqeedah in one of his posts. There are certain things a Muslim is required to believe in with absolute certainty, and believing in the authenticity of every single hadith is not a part of the aqeedah. I am open to debating the authenticity of hadiths because they were put together by man, and to err is human afterall. Attributing lies to Prophet saw is a major sin and if I continue to ignorantly believe in and spread a bunch of possibly fabricated hadiths then that is pretty irresponsible of me as a muslim. So I do not rely on hadiths with 100% certainty. If there's room for debate, I'll debate with an open mind.

Since the Quran, as per my belief, is the word of God, not a man-made book, and the only holy book to not have been corrupted by man, there's no question about believing in the miracles mentioned in the Quran, however illogical they may be in the light of science. But I do study various interpretations of certain verses with an open mind. I do not associate myself with a certain “fiqh” or school of thought. For example, some people say that Prophet saw wasn't physically ascended to heaven on the night of Miraj, rather it was a spiritual journey. I accept both interpretations ... perhaps stuff like this wasn't meant to be crystal clear, perhaps stuff like evolution was left open-ended for us on purpose. The stuff that really matters is pretty clear and that’s all I like to focus on. That is my faith, simple as that. I have a very simple understanding of my deen and I'd like to keep it that way, without indulging in the nitty gritty details like the height of Hazrat Adam a.s.

The Quran is the same today as it was on day 1 of its revelation. What’s changed is people’s interpretation of it, hence the various schools of thought, sects and whatnot, that was predicted and bound to happen. What’s NOT fardh/wajib/compulsory/obligatory but allowed does not have to be followed depending the requirements of the time. There’s a difference between what you CAN do and what you HAVE to do. For example, there’s no need for a certain number of witnesses to prove a crime has occurred when we have forensics today. Stoning to death is allowed as a form of capital punishment but I do not condone it. Because people back in the day lived in a tribal culture and shariah law was most suited at the time, we live in democracies that should be governed by the modern justice system. Just 2 centuries ago, over 200 crimes were punishable by death in Britain and public executions were a norm, something we’d consider barbaric today. So you can imagine how different the world culture must have been 14 centuries ago. The political/cultural/societal norms of the time don’t apply today, our justice system could never have been upheld back then and vice versa.