Great article on whether Apostasy punishments are even Islamic.
I know Bella’s thread few weeks ago has been closed down, otherwise would have posted this there. In reference to what goes on in Sudan and other places regarding apostates, it never made sense to me. This article posts some good rebuttals on these laws, and from what I’ve read in the Quran, echo’s the Islamic sentiment of “If they don’t wanna believe, let them be”.
Besides if someone turns away from Islam, and you kill them, it’s not like they have the chance to convert back again. You know why? Cuz they’re dead, that’s why.
Besides if someone turns away from Islam, and you kill them, it's not like they have the chance to convert back again. You know why? Cuz they're dead, that's why.
Finally I looked my self the verses or quran used to make up this case. It does not say to kill who-turned-away.
If moududi made his case this way, its his problem.
[quote]
They have sold the signs of God for miserable price and have hindered people from His way, What they've doen is utterly criminal! Indeed, when is comes to a believer, they neither respect families ties nor obligations, and thus they will go beyond all bounds!
Yet, despite all of that, if they repent, establish prayer and give in charity, then they'll become your brother in religion. Thats how We explain the verses for the people who understand.
However, if they betray their agreement after giving their word and then taunt you about your religion, then fight the leaders of rejection, for they have no belief that would constrain them.
[9:11-12] quran
[/quote]
[quote]
The(hypocrites) only want you to cover over (the tuth of God in your hearts) like they have covered it over (in their hearts), for then you'll be on the same level. So don't take best-friends from among them untill they migrate for God's sake (to Madina). If they become rebels (and make war against you) then capture them and or kill them (in battle) where ever you find them.
[4:89] quran
[/quote]
I know.. I know... second quote can make people uncomfortable, I suggest you read Prophet's life(even from Christian source), to know how war, conspiracies were upon muslims, from beginning
makkah:--charecter assassinations + assassination attemp on Prophet him self.
Madina: to root out whole new muslims community, inside conspiracies were big part of it.
I think it's well understood that there are no Apostasy laws in Quran but the ruling exists in Sharia. If only someone could prove it's not, that would be a game changer.
Does anyone know when and how this apostasy law came into existence? As Monk mentioned, Maududi is one of those 'scholars' who believes an apostate should be killed.
But from what I have read, there is 2 kinds of apostates. 1) who left islam but is not speaking against it or saying anything negative about it, and 2) that changes religion and is critical of Islam. from what I have heard, those who are critical and speak against it, deserve death penalty.
not sure if this is truly islamic either or not, but I have come across this in many places.
Either way, no one should be killed because they are critical of a religion. people should have the freedom of speech to express their views about ANY ideology, whether its religion or not.
I think most apostasy law hadith that include the death penalty are coupled with someone who not just turned away from Islam but also became a traitor. In a fledgeling muslim society the whole community could be killed by just one person turning tails and conspiring with the enemy so it was a grave crime. So many countries have only just recently abolished the death penalty for treason so it's not something unheard off in modern times (UK abolished the death penalty for treason in 1998).
Also this following Surah makes me believe just apostasy was not instant death penalty because people had the opportunity to fluctuate their beliefs in their lifetime. (I'm currently reading the translation of the Quran for Ramadan so I can't vouch for the context until I get to this part and do my own research.)
Verily, those who believed and then disbelieved, then believed and then disbelieved and increased in disbelief, never will Allah forgive them nor will He guide them to a right way.
Surah An-Nisa 4:137
To tell you the truth, the minute they moved to madina, it was like monster unleashed, not that they were any safer in makkah.. but madina, all the conflict, battles, society tension. how could Prophet put up with all that… I could not comprehend any other man could have done it.
But then finally when he walked in makkah with a large army unopposed, he did not even dismiss a single person from his job. Woman who chew on his uncle’s liver was forgiven.
But madina was intense, prophet failing to defend him self there and muslims, we would have an other Jesus(pbuh) in Jerusalem scenario.
Things are crystal clear, but we just can not put our own word forward , above prophets words.
As far as attitude, concerns and intentions are clear. Mercy for every one, punishment for who wants corruption on earth.
I did go over the context and the Quran seems to be referring to hypocrites directly afterwards and not people who overtly turn away from Islam. Still not certain.
But I will add that I don’t believe a child of a muslim is automatically a muslim when they attain adulthood. When I posted the apostasy case link someone on my facebook answered my question where I asked whether the woman had been a muslim prior to the marriage or was it just an assumption by the community someone answered that if it was written on her birth certificate she must be.
Religion isn’t a caste, creed situation but a matter of faith. No matter what a person’s parents are if they don’t believe then they don’t believe. The End. If a person follows Islamic conventions for the sake of the society even that is not proof the person is a muslim (like not eating in public for the fear of their peer’s judgement). I would only truly call someone an apostate if they explicitly state without any external pressure that they’re a muslim after they attain majority and then turn away from what they promised.
I think it's well understood that there are no Apostasy laws in Quran but the ruling exists in Sharia. If only someone could prove it's not, thatt would be a game changer.
What do you guys mean by Apostasy Laws in the Quran?
Are you looking at death sentences?
My understanding is that any individual apostate could be/is LIABLE to be killed depending on circumstances
As per the holy Quran, mere apostasy doesn't constitute punishment by the state. It is a sin. no doubt about it but Allah has given us the right to choose. Islamic state is not a NAZI state as usually understood that all others should remain mute, are not allowed to propagate their faith. only 'Islam' can be projected and once accepted shuts all doors for him to make any choice. An apostate cannot be equated to a traitor as it is normally projected. Unless the apostate render harm to individuals or state, he cannot be held accountable. People when asked to render proof from Quran in support of punishment of an apostate deliberately misquote verses and fool the masses.
Let's see what the classical scholars have to say about this issue:
قال ابن قدامة رحمه الله: "وقال النبي صلى الله عليه وسلم من بدل دينه فاقتلوه، وأجمع أهل العلم على وجوب قتل المرتد، وروي ذلك عن أبي بكر وعمر وعثمان وعلي ومعاذ وأبي موسى وابن عباس وخالد وغيرهم، ولم ينكر ذلك فكان إجماعا" المغني (9/16)
Ibn Qudaamah (may Allah have Mercy on him) said: And the Messenger of Allah (peace be upon him) said "He who changes his Religion, then kill him." And the people of knowledge have unanimoulsy agreed upon the obligation of killing the male apostate and that has been transmitted from Abu Bakar (may Allah be pleased with him), Umar (may Allah be pleased with him), Uthmaan (may Allah be pleased with him), Ali (may Allah be pleased with him), Ibn Abbaas (may Allah be pleased with him)...and a 'Ijmaa (consensus) has occurred."
So, now we laymen know better than the Companions (may Allah be pleased with them) and those scholars who followed!
People you really need to stop worrying about what a Kaffir, who spends his entire life fornicating, drinking alcohol and disobeying his Lord, thinks about your Religion. If it looks bad to him, then it is a compliment.
People you really need to stop worrying about what a Kaffir, who spends his entire life fornicating, drinking alcohol and disobeying his Lord, thinks about your Religion. If it looks bad to him, then it is a compliment.
Peace ZeeshanParvez
So what about the kaffir who does not fornicate, drink and who believes he follows his Lord? What do we say to him?
Were there any cases when people were not killed for apostasy?
And if there are - then we can see why we can't be formulating our idea of shari'ah based on selected hadith. The scholars will do that job taking in to consideration all of the hadith on this matter.
how could Prophet put up with all that… I could not comprehend any other man could have done it.