Re: Any Janjua's on Gupistan!!!!!!
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Re: Any Janjua’s on Gupistan!!!
Dhamial Raja Sahib, you are right, there are a lot of Dhamial villages. In the old days, when a Rajput married outside into a Jat tribe and took to cultivation, then his bradheri would not accept his children’s rishte, and he was pretty much outcasted. (Dont hate it, I didnt make the rules, just stating them) They were then known as the Khandaani name ‘‘Kokhar’’, ‘‘Gakhar’’, or '‘Dhamial’ or whatever, then ‘‘Jut’’ as their class. It was unfair but you have to remember, they were very hinduized and followed ancient customs which over time became quite extreme. This happened to them as it did to many clans. So they really are jut Dhamials. Dhamial Rajputs and Ranial Rajputs are quite dominant in their regions though, thats a fact.
Re: Any Janjua's on Gupistan!!!!!!
We had a janjua servant in Lahore.. eik number da chor tay badmash.. My dadajaan hit him with a stick and he vowed revenge on our family. He used to drink lot of nimbu-paani(seems like janjua tradition) and spend lot of time in toilet.
Re: Any Janjua's on Gupistan!!!!!!
I am learning so much about my ancestors.....
COooool!!!!!!!!!!!!
Re: Any Janjua's on Gupistan!!!!!!
You're right Mani, it is cool. It's good to read up on history in general I think. It's more important for us in the west IMO.
Mulz bro, there are some Tarkhans etc in Lahore, who claim Janjua ancestry (Allah knows may be they had one as an ancestor) but they are not considered Rajeh or anything and hence have taken to such trades.
And just for the record, it's not a nimbu paani tradition within Janjua, lol.
Re: Any Janjua's on Gupistan!!!!!!
^ What do you mean? Only one Janjua army general and you guys feel so proud of your origins.. I would say Bhattis/Minhas are much more aggressive rajputs in Punjab
Re: Any Janjua's on Gupistan!!!!!!
That’s a very strange and negative reply there Mulz. But if you want to measure up then please be my guest. We have a little more generals in our clan than you grant us respect for, in fact off the top of my head I can name at least 11 generals;
General Asif Nawaz Khan (chief of Staff)
General Tikka Khan (Chief of Staff)
Major General Iftikhar Janjua the hero of Runn Kutch and the only general to have died on the frontline defending Pakistan*Lieutenant General Afzal Janjua*,
Lieutenant General Afzal Muzaffar,
Lieutenant General Ahmed Jamal Janjua,
Lieutenant General Hamid Rabnawaz,
General Saeed u-Zaman Janjua,
Major General Muhammad Akram
Major General Ahmed Kamal,
And just as a top off, the Governor of NWFP, ambassador to Nepal and UAE Brigadier Amir Gulistan Janjua, and not to forget the Nishan e Haider Sarwar Hussain Janjua.
Sorry to hurt your feelings bro, but that’s just from 1947 onwards. I’ve got more references of the quality of Janjua soldiers from the British period. Our military background and quality is more than well documented. Infact even the Mughal Babur documented us uniting with him. I didnt see any Minhas names in the Baburnama, lol.
And as for aggression, how about having;
The title of ''Butcher of bengal'' i.e. General Tikka Khan
General Iftikhar Janjua who died fighting in Runn Kutch. what other general did that? (Not soldier, but a general?)
Asif Nawaz was well onto Nawaz Sharif's tricks from day one. Pity Allah took him before he had the chance to nail him, until Musharraf, who else gave him that much headache?
The Janjua are recorded in most history books as both loyal, warlike and dominant as well as uncomparable martial spirit. Thats by a british researcher who had no special link with Janjua or any tribe.
So you really didn’t know what you were getting yourself into with that last post did you? Lol
Re: Any Janjua’s on Gupistan!!!
^ I am not sure I have heard about more half of your list.. What about bhattis? Talking about Minhas.. Have you heard about Shaheed Rashid Minhas? He is Nishan-e-Haider and gave his life fighting for Pakistan.. What about Chauhans? There are lot of books about them.. Remember Prithiviraj Chauhan? How can anyone forget Kokhars? I guess there’s nothing special about Janjuas… All Rajputs deserve mention.. whether it is Bhatti, Punwar, Chauhan, Minhas, Tiwana, Noon, Ranghar, Khokhar, Ghakkar, Meo, Chib, Gheba, Jodhra, Sial, Wattu.. or whatever.. I dont have the list on top of my head.. BTW, was Tikka Khan a Rajput? I dont know 
There’s a need for different Rajputs to stay united and encourage inter-sub-caste marriages between different sub-castes of Rajputs 
Re: Any Janjua's on Gupistan!!!!!!
According to professor Ahmed Hassan Dani, the word Janjua is derived from "Jouan-Jouan" - name of a Central Asian tribe (affiliated with Hephthalites) which forced its way into Punjab around 325-375 a.d.
Re: Any Janjua's on Gupistan!!!!!!
There is only true warrior race in South Asia, which in globally renowned and can compete and even go one up with any *jeedars *in the history of world...no Rajputs, Jatts, Gujjars or any such pretenders can even come close....And they are the pukhtoons and about whom Rudyard Kipling said, that the British had finally come across a people, who they would consider their equal...
Re: Any Janjua's on Gupistan!!!!!!
Mulz, for some reason, I might be taking your posts the wrong way perhaps, but if you read any of the above posts, no one has belittled other Rajeh at all. In fact the Janjua have a history with almost all the ones you mentioned. (Bhattis are Yaduvanshi descendants of Krishna's tribe, who was the Janjua's main father Arjun Pandav's greatest friend and ally) Especially the Gakhars (even though the Gakhars aren't actually a Rajput tribe, but use the Raja title, they are an Iranian tribe i.e. Rajputs are only chandravanshi, agnivanshi or suryavanshi. Hence Iranians wouldnt become Rajput bro) . General Tikka Khan is a Janjua from Kahuta, same clan as Amir Khan the boxer and olympic medalist. This is a fact you can check with anyone from the Pakistani army. Just because you havent kept tabs with the army journals bro, doesnt mean the generals aren't there. Consult any defence journal and you will realise. In fact 2 Chief of staff (highest ranking military generals commanders of the whole army) have been Janjua so your naive comment about us being happy about our origins with just one general was a bit pathetic to say the least.....
I strongly agree that all rajputs should intermarry amongst others, but as Muslims essentially we should intermarry amongst other strong clans also. But then you just showed why there isnt much unity between Rajputs. I made no mention of other Rajeh, because this topic is on Janjua. But you started to cry about why other Rajeh werent mentioned and started making silly comments about servants etc. Sort yourself out first my brother, then all us Rajeh will Inshallah unite. And your friend Prithviraj Chauhan...yes I do remember him...for the hard time he gave Muslims in Ajmer and for his tyranny against Khwaja Gharib Nawaz. Are you using him as an example to us Musalmaan Rajeh?! Please bro, read history first. I am not belittling others, this thread asked about Janjuas, so stop hating.
CheGuvera, your crap about other pretenders makes me laugh mate. You are citing RUDYARD KIPLING, a FICTION STORY WRITER as a credible source?!! lol!!! He also wrote that snakes talk, tigers are treacherous and was a strong freemason. Oh and he wrote the Jungle book too. Lots of FICTION books my friend. Hardly a credible historian!!!!! lol
But just for your info, the Niazi Pakhtuns DID find the Janjua as a strong and warlike tribe and intermarried from them also, Baburnama confirms this strongly. And besides the Janjua held Hazara strongly through their Tanoli branch. Abbot called them the 'Hostile and powerful Tanolis, the most powerful tribe of Hazara'. Charles Allen stated them as ''the best swordsmen of Hazara''. They held their own for centuries against the best of the Pakhtuns in NWFP. Painda Khan Tanoli and his son Jehandad Khan Tanoli were heroes and were reverred by even the Pakhtuns, so read your OWN history before raising a finger against us Rajputs mate. Especially as they ruled Afghanistan up to Kabul and Kandahar up to the 11th century, lol.
I'll make it clear for you, Muslim unity is best, but dont trample over us Rajputs reputation dude, you wont EVER win......
Re: Any Janjua's on Gupistan!!!!!!
Salamz bro, you got the dates and the name slightly wrong. They were the Juan Juan dynasty and made their way in the 6th century ad. Bro there are lots of example of fake lineages given by pundits to foreign conquerors, aka the suryavanshi, agnivanshi and chandravanshi theory. All I can say is that Allah t'ala knows best, whether Bhattis are from Raja Yadu, Minhas from Ram Chandra, or Janjua from Arjun. But the word Juan Juan is pronounced ruan ruan, so that alone discredits the theory. Also they left no vestiges along the jounrey, indicating that the poor credibility of that theory. Also they were pursued by the Huns up to Rajputana and China, so most sources agree that to have left them as powerful localised rulers would have been a chance the Huns wouldnt have taken. But brother, only Allah knows best, we can only speculate and theorise his works in changing powers and lineages.
Re: Any Janjua’s on Gupistan!!!
Rajputs, Jats, Gujars, and other tribes/sub-branches of the region are descended from a blend of Central Asian tribes known as Scythians (Sakas), Hephthalites (Hunas), and others mixed with the natives. The Hindu mythological claims of their origin is nothing more than myths. These Central Asian tribes were originally mostly worshippers of the sun, fire, etc. and once they migrated to Indus Valley later many converted to Buddhism . It was much later on that some converted to Shaivism, Sauraism, etc. (or were absorbed into Brahmanism)… followed by most converting to Islam… followed by some converting to Sikhism.
Here is an interesting article on Punjabi tribes and their origins:
Before the advent of Islam, but after the Aryan migrations, several invasions and mass migrations of the Central Asian tribes named as the Sakas, Parthians, Kushans, Huns and Gujjars took place in the Punjab (and other parts of Pakistan). The last two tribes i.e. the Huns (White Huns/ Epthalites) and Gujjars arrived in the 5th century AD when Hinduism had revived under the Gupta Empire but had not fully succeeded in crushing the influence of Buddhism. As the Gupta Empire collapsed under the impact of Hun invasions, it caused deep consternation among Brahmins in view of their failure to eliminate Buddhism while the Gupta power supporting them in this task had disappeared. Therefore, they began to make overtures to the new arrivals who were valiant, vigorous and warlike. They were offered the rank of Kshatryas in the Hindu fold, a position only next to that of the Brahmins and confers the responsiblity of rulership.
In the course of time the leading groups of Huns were absorbed in the Hindu fold as Kshatryas while Jats, who were the descendants of the remaining groups of Huns, occupied a lower strata of society. But the present day Jats and Rajputs also include the descendants of the previous invaders… the Sakas and the Kushans and even of earlier races. Sakas, Parthians, Kushans, White Huns, and Gujjars were ethnically Iranian. In fact, Huns (White Huns/Hepthalites) are also called Iranian Huns to differentiate them from the other Mongoloid Huns who invaded Europe. The word Gujjar is derived from Khazar and Jat from Gatae who inhabited around the Caspian Sea and migrated towards northwest South Asia.
Todd assigns Scythian origin to the Rajputs. Scythians came to be known as Sakas in South Asia, and were absorbed in the Hindu fold as Kshatriyas. Sakas, Yavannas (Greco-Bactrians), Pallavas (Parthians) ultimately became Kshatriyas. The Huns are known to have been regarded as one of the 36 clans of Rajputs. However, except for the Huns, all others had mostly adopted Buddhism mixed with their religions (like Saka sun-worship).
Almost 60% of the population of the Punjab comprises of Rajputs and Jats and the various branches of their race such as Awans, Khokhars, Ghakkars, Khattars, Janjuas, Arains, Gujjars, etc. though the Awans, Khokhars and Khattars claim common ancestry from Qutb Shah who is said to have come from Ghazni with Mahmud Ghaznavi, scholars hold the view that they were most probably converted by Qutb Shah during Mahmud Ghaznavi’s reign and were not his descendents. This tendancy of claiming foreign origin by some of the local tribes is not uncommon. Even admittedly Rajput tribes of famous ancestry such as the Khokhar, have begun to follow the example of claiming connection with the Mughal conquerors of India or the Qureshi cousins of the Prophet.
A branch of the Wattu Rajputs of the Sutlej by an affection of peculiar sanctity, have in the course of a few generations become Bodeas and now deny their Rajput and claim Qureshi origin. There is a Kharral family lately settled in Bahawalpur who have begun to affect peculiar holiness and to marry only with each other and their next step will certainly be to claim Arab descent.
However, a significant number of Punjabi tribes are indeed descended from Afghan, Turkic, Arab, Mughal and Iranian Muslim invaders/migrants. Even those who are of local origins but claim foreign Muslim ancestory, might have partial ancestory derived from them. But all in all, the foreign Muslim ancestory element among Punjabis does not exceed more than 20% of their population.
According to Thomson, Awans are a Jat race and were converted to Islam by Mahmud Ghaznavi. In several districts of the Punjab they are registered as Jats. Mr. Thomson in his Jehlum Settlement report adduces many strong reasons in support of his conclusion that the Awans are a Jat race who came from passes west of D.I.Khan. Griffin also agrees to the local Muslim origin of Awans while Cunningham holds that Janjuas and Awans are descended from Anu and calls them Anwan. Another scholar Wilson is of the view that Awans are of indigenous Hindu/Buddhist/Pagan/Animist origin. In the genealogical tree of the Nawabs of Kalabagh, who are regarded heads of the Awans, there are found several native names such as Rai, Harkaran, etc.
As regards Gujjars, the well known scholar Cunningham thinks that they are descended from Scythian (Saka) and Yue-Chi (Kushan) tribes who invaded Pakistan in the first century BC and in the first century AD respectively. Other scholars believe that they are descended from a Central Asian Turkic people called Kazars. Since the tribe migrated from Caspian Sea which is called Bahr-e-Khizar it was named Khizar, Guzar, Gurjar, Gurjara or Gujjar. The name Hazara was given to the district by these Guzara tribes. The name Gujjar, according to another version, is derived from the words ‘Gau’ and ‘Char’ meaning cattle grazers.
Though Arains claim Iranian descent, they too are generally considered of Rajput origin, but Rajputs having Scythian-Kushan-Hun origins are indeed related to Iranians. According to the Punjab Gazetteer, the Arains of sahiwal District themselves pointed out that they are Surajbansi Rajputs originally settled around Delhi. Arains of Ghaggar Valley say that they were Rajputs living on the Panjnad near Multan. Mr. Pursr writes that they are usually supposed to be Muslim Kambohs. the Jullander Arains themselves say that they are descended from Rai Chajju of Ujjain. Kambohs claim descent from Raja Keran who was related to him.
Similarly, Ranghars and Meos are described to be of Rajput/Jat origin who were converted to Islam during the time of Qutbuddin Aibak. Kahutas are a mixed Mughal and Rajput tribe. Khattars are related to Awans and Jats.
Khokhars are sometimes returned as Jats and sometimes as Rajputs. Col. Davis notes that many of the social customs of the Khokhars of Shahpur denote Hindu origin. Eastern Punjab Khokhars themselves claim Jat-Rajput origin. Only some of the West Punjab Khokhars claim Arab origin.
Gen. Cunningham identifies the Ghakkars with Gangaridae of Dionysius and holds them to be descendents of Yueti or Tokhari Scythians (sakas).
In Pakistan, Rajput and Jat tribes are so mixed up that it is difficult to distinguish one from the other at many places and in several cases. Some of the Rajput tribes are probably of Jat origin and vice versa. In southwest Punjab the name Jat includes a most miscellaneous congries of tribes of all sorts. Its significance tends to be occupational: to denote a body of cultivators or agriculturists. Even tribes which bear well-known Rajput names are often classified as Jats in the Punjab. Anyway, the origin of both is the same as stated earlier.
Gen. Cunningham and Maj. Todd agree in considering the Jats of Indo-Scythian stock. Maj. Todd classifies Jats as one of the great Rajput tribes. They belong to one and thesame stock… they have been, for many centuries, so blended and so intermingled into one people that it is practically impossible to distinguish them as separate wholes. At present distinction is social rather ethnic. The same tribe Rajput in one district and Jat in another according to the position in local tribes… During census many of the Jats entered, as third heading, the name of the Rajput tribe from which they claim to have sprung.
The Jats in ancient times inhabited the whole valley of the Indus down to Sind… They now form a most numerous as well as the most important section of the agricultural population of Punjab.
Beyond the Punjab, Jats are chiefly found in Sind where they form mass of the population.
The main (Muslim) Rajput tribes of the Punjab are: Bhatti, Punwar, Chauhan, Minhas, Tiwana, Noon, Chib, Gheba, Jodhra, Janjua, Sial and Wattu etc. While the important (Muslim) Jat tribes are: Bajwa, Chatta, Cheema, Randhawa, Ghammon, Buta, Kahlon, Gil, Sehota, Taror, Waraich, Summa, Wahla, Bhutta, Malhi, Sukhera, Alpials, Dahas, Langah, Ranghar, Meo, Awan, Khokhar, Ghakkar, etc. But some of these Rajput tribes are classified are Jats and vice versa.
Punjab has had its periods of prosperity and poverty in a regular cycle. Before the arrival of Muslims, Punjab along with the other regions/provinces of present day Pakistan was leading a separate existance from that of India, and kingdoms based in its territories or in the NWFP often ruled over most of northern India. Kushan, Saka, Bactrian and Hun Kingdoms with their capitals at Peshawar, Taxila and Sialkot respectively, ruled over large parts of northern India for centuries.
Re: Any Janjua’s on Gupistan!!!
True.. thanks for correcting me.
Re: Any Janjua's on Gupistan!!!!!!
No problem bro. You sound like your a history buff like me too, lol.
Are you UK or Pakistan based?
Re: Any Janjua’s on Gupistan!!!
Yup.. USA
Re: Any Janjua's on Gupistan!!!!!!
Cool :)
Whats your main areas of research?
Re: Any Janjua's on Gupistan!!!!!!
Pak history link
I've read that article before and found a lot of faults with it. In essence, it's not written by someone from the area, moreover it makes a lot of assumptions without general opinion gathering. e.g. Hazara's name coming from Gujjars, I've read contrary to that. Also the Kokhars claiming Qureshi origin, (I have never read that in any book or from anyone's mouth, lol).
The scythian reference is quite at odds with the general hindu references too, as one of their books called the Sakas the 'worst of all peoples' I believe, so to assign their descendants as Rajputs wouldnt have been probable...
I have noticed though, the Hindu Rajeh from Rajasthan sides, absolutely HATE Pakistan and hate the Muslim Rajeh 10 TIMES MORE because we embraced Islam. So to see some hostility here between some of us brothers is quite sad to see.... ESPECIALLY seeing as we should be united against these idiots.
Re: Any Janjua's on Gupistan!!!!!!
The scythian reference is quite at odds with the general hindu references too, as one of their books called the Sakas the 'worst of all peoples' I believe, so to assign their descendants as Rajputs wouldnt have been probable...
I have noticed though, the Hindu Rajeh from Rajasthan sides, absolutely HATE Pakistan and hate the Muslim Rajeh 10 TIMES MORE because we embraced Islam. So to see some hostility here between some of us brothers is quite sad to see.... ESPECIALLY seeing as we should be united against these idiots.
Hello JR,
I am a Jat(Dhillon) from dad side... Yes you are right.. The Hindu Rajehs HATE Musalman Rajehs like anything.. All of the Indian army greats have been Rajputs and they always have hated Muslims and Muslim Rajputs in particular.. They treat Muslims rajputs as traitor.. In India Muslims Rajputs (who chose tostay in India) are called chameleon pathan.. one who has changed his color to become pathan.. I have met quite a few Hindoo Rajputs and they are what I described.
Re: Any Janjua's on Gupistan!!!!!!
Thats really sad to see actually. If we keep religion aside, both sides cant deny the other's achievements. But thats the point. We listened and embraced Islam and will never leave it, they will never listen and will always hate Islam for the wrong reasons. The mere fact that they may themselves flock to our holy darbaars, and possibly hate us because of a few lax leaders, is a naive and pathetic hatred to carry I think. Fair play, jahein jahanum mein, who cares? Even today we are the world's fastest growing religion, lol!