Anti-israel thing at my uni...why it pisses me off...

Hangout GupShup Cafe
1

I am sick and tired about hearing about Palestine…the way some would have you believe is the only place in the world with a human rights problem but more than that i am sick about hearing how bad Israel are…

Am i pro-Israeli…no im not but im not anti…im a realist…both feel they have divine right to the land and neither likes each other…Palestinians moan about abuses but if the shoe was on the other foot i foubt the Jews would be treated well if they acted as problematically as the Palestinians are…

Simple fact is every nation does whatever it is neccesary to protect itself and clamps down on annoyances which the Palestinians are to them…every single nation does that to protect its sovereignty…People moan about them wanting to expand Israel but i dont think Palestinians believe in a two state solution…like iv said they would be as abusive to the Jews if they didnt give in…

If i was Israeli i would proud of my leadership…they look after me…Arabs are just a joke whos soverignty belongs to the West…Palestinian leaderships have been a joke and good riddance to them…

Its funny the concept of victim is a strange one…situation here is about who got to the gun first…Palestinians lost and are now paying for it…

Iv had three weeks of anti-Israel leaflets given to me and three weeks of invites to anti-Israeli talks…im now beyond caring…can we talk about somewhere else please…maybe Sudan, Chechnya or even Kashmir…

End of rant…

2

Re: Anti-israel thing at my uni...why it pisses me off...

That's a mighty controversial topic. The hatred and antimosity lies in the the injustice that so many have faced and continue to face....

I would say much, but i'm afraid it would derail the thread....

3

Re: Anti-israel thing at my uni...why it pisses me off...

This sad saga is IMHO perpetuated by those who live there. The palestinians have some space and the israelis have some space but there are a few israelis living in palestine. They REFUSE to move. Its very very sad to see interviews of both sides, they really WANT to perpetuate war and killing of each other - rather than put up a white flag on both sides, compromise on both sides etc. They HATEHATEHATE each other. And have no interest whatsoever in making peace. I've not been there so I cant say that this is completely true but from the open interviews I've seen, the people make it obbious that the current sitation is preferable to them as opposed to sitting down, breaking bread and talking peace. Nothing will change till THATS taken care of.

4

Re: Anti-israel thing at my uni...why it pisses me off...

no harm in you not taking a personal interest in the subject. however, its tricky because if you are lamenting people who do then you are doing a disservice to the muslim world.

iran is next for a beating

5

Re: Anti-israel thing at my uni...why it pisses me off...

NBN You know how jew end up in israel, right??

6

Re: Anti-israel thing at my uni…why it pisses me off…

Naughty by Nature my friend, its time to get out of your cocoon.

Have the complete DVD if anyone wants.

7

Re: Anti-israel thing at my uni...why it pisses me off...

Cheegum bro...no such Cuccoon...im been the Pro Pali guy before and iv been the anti Israel, Anti America guy before and then i just grew up...
I watched the video you rpovided and yeah i dont disagree that the Palestinians face a hard time...ill give you an analogy...one gang member kills another gang member...is there really a sigificant difference between the oppressed and the oppressor other than opportunity?...Can you honestly tell me that we wouldnt dp the same as the Israelis if we had tanks...
Most Palestinians dont watch Jews on that land because they believe they have a divine right to it...just like the Jews do...oppression generally is a funny subject because like iv said how much difference is there between two groups...of shias ruled Iraq would they be better to the Sunnis then Saddam was to them?...

Like iv said im a realist...you do whats neccesary to maintain power...if you have opposition you crush it...i doubt we would criticise an Islamic leader if there was rebellion from the non Muslims and they were crushed...

It is getting rid of an annoyance...its just one side is significantly stronger than the other hence we hear about human rights abuses...

8

Re: Anti-israel thing at my uni...why it pisses me off...

israelis are terrotrists. they have taken palestinian land by force. if someone is anti-israel then they have valid reasons to be so. like you said palestinians don't believe in 2-nation theory, similarly israelis don't too. they have already taken over 75% of the palestinian land and are giving them 25% of the destroyed land to live on. do you really think a sane person will accept that? if i were a palestinian i won't.

The Random Thread
The Random Thread
9

Re: Anti-israel thing at my uni...why it pisses me off...

I havent suggested Palestinians should be happy with their situation...you have reiterated a lot of what i agreee with but like that quote everyone uses 'one mans terrorist is another man freedom fighter'...
Im aneutral pretty much...i just think Irael gets a lot of flack for simply protecting its sovereignty...if you have a set of people who dont agree with the concept of a two state solution then how do you advise they deal with them?...and again i raise the question...if the shoe was on the other foot wouldnt it be Muslims in tanks and jews with stones?...

10

Re: Anti-israel thing at my uni...why it pisses me off...

whatever isreal is trying to protect belongs to the palestinians to begin with. if you think israel has the god damn right to protect a stolen land then why the rightful owners can't fight to get it back. israelis have no right on that land. its belongs to the palestinians and they have every right to fight for it whichever way possible for them.

as for 2-state concept, majority of the ppl who oppose it are on israeli side. they are elected officials and you tell me how you'll deal with them when they make the very foundation of the government in power.

and about your question : yeah everyone have the right to protect their property. but you simply cannot protect stolen property as you own.

11

Re: Anti-israel thing at my uni...why it pisses me off...

Come on Saieen...
That was originally Jewish land and became Islamic land when Omar ibn Khattab took it over during his caliphate...we took over through conquest...there is no such thing as stolen land...and if there is the jews have a lot to be aggrieved about cos they had that land taken from them plenty of times...
Would you consider us stealing India from the Hindus say?...no we built and empire and we conquered lands...thats not theft...
From a Jewish perspective they have every right to the land and you cant deny they have a case...as do the Palestinians...its just about whos winning which Israel is...

Both sides aren't interested in a 2 state solution but from a logical perspective the Jews are less likely to be interested becuase they have the power...they dont need to compromise...just like palestinians who believe like you that jews have no right to this land and stole this land from us would not be interested in a 2 state solution if they were strong...naturally the weak will compromise...

And as for your last paragraph...when is property stolen...your Muslim today cos Muslims 'stole' someones land...i personally dont believe thats theft...thats conquest which any good empire does but based on your definition we stole India from the Hindus right?...

12

Re: Anti-israel thing at my uni...why it pisses me off...

NBN, the Palestinians face undue hardships. Just because other people promote their cause in a way which you don't like doesn't mean we should stop caring about the Palestinians.

Unlike many people at Gupshup who only criticize Israel for the hardships on the Palestinians, I also criticize the Arab Countries and their policies towards Israel which has lead us to this road.

Which in my opinion makes me the most pro-Palestinian person out there. Where as people on Gupshup are obsessed with condemning Israel and not looking at how Palestinian refugees are treated in Arab countries.

13

Re: Anti-israel thing at my uni...why it pisses me off...

Right, the 4th largest Nuclear power in the world is supposed to be worried about its borders, not to mention the largest reciever of US aid (one third).

Israel will always be at the wrong side of the spectrum. They're opressors, no one can deny that. If they do, they're fooling themselves.

The end, no discussion needed.

14

Re: Anti-israel thing at my uni...why it pisses me off...

Your argument is flawed. You begin your argument by taking a nationalistic approach and when the tide rises on you, you shift and take a Jews vs Muslims approach.

Today's Palestinians would most likely have Jewish and Christian ancestors who were living in Jerusalem and its areas in pre Islamic times. Hence they have as much right to that land as present day Jews do, if not more.

Secondly, a huge majority of the present day Jews including those who lead the Zionist movement and those who are running Israel today are Ashkenazi Jews who are dencendants of the Khazars, a nomadic Turkic tribe from Central Asia, hence they are not from Bani Israel. Khazars became a Jewish state somewhere around the 9th Century AD. Hence modern day Israelites were not the ones who were conquered by Umar(rah).

Under Jewish Law, you cannot embrace Judaism, since it was meant only for the Children of Yaqoob, who was also known as Israel, hence the "bani israel", and these are today known as Sephardic Jews who make up less than 20% of the total World Jewish population and less than 10% of the Israeli population.

Sephardic jews have always lived with Muslims..in the Middle East, North Africa and Spain, and they can very well continue to live modern Muslims. The problem arised when this Caucasian Jewish population called Ashkenazis who look nothing like Yaqoob(as) and his children forced their way into the Middle East, a place where they didn't belong, and STOLE the lands from their rightful owners.

15

Re: Anti-israel thing at my uni...why it pisses me off...

As a Muslim and as a human being with logic, I do not recognize a so called state called Israel...Merely a country called Palestine occupied by armed terrorists supported by the USA called Zionists...

There is no Israel only Palestine...And if every Zionist dies, I would consider it a blessing and a victory for people all around the world, that an occupied land and its people can still become free with their struggles...

16

Re: Anti-israel thing at my uni...why it pisses me off...

NBN ....I believe Israilis are Zionists not Jews. The Orthodox Jews themselves are against the creation of Israel.

17

Re: Anti-israel thing at my uni...why it pisses me off...

NBN,

Don't let an anti-Israel thing piss you off. Life is too short for that.

2 Likes
18

Re: Anti-israel thing at my uni...why it pisses me off...

Mercenary2k...thats cool...its a raity for people to acknowledge that Arabs themsleves may be at faulthere....

Crescent...how different is the oppressor from the oppressed?...

Sharaabi...actually i didnt change my approach...it is a nationalistic struggle but Muslims care bacuase they see it as an Islamic issue...
I simply outlined that there is no such thing as stolen land...all that has happened is various conquests...interesting points regarding ethnic groupings but it doesnt detract from the fact that both feel they have a divine right to the land and do whatever is in their control to make that a reality...the Jews simply took their chance...

Hyperactive...its because of views like yours that one can understand why the Jews clamp down on their enemies...isnt it the intelligent thing to do...its not as if Palestinians want to integrate is it...

Moonshiner...
I shouldnt but there has been a new event every day and the amount of leaflets pushed in my face is starting to seriously annoy...
Hareem...maybe thats the case but they still ive true to their ideology which is from their perspective they believe this to be their land and are simply acting upon that...just like we have concepts of what constitutes islamic lands...

19

Re: Anti-israel thing at my uni...why it pisses me off...

i believe you to be wrong on every point. heres a brief explanation of why

the only person with whom you use positive language is here as the resident zionist. a wedge between arabs and rest of muslim world suit him just fine

[quote]
Crescent...how different is the oppressor from the oppressed?...

[/quote]

the notion that i will condone similar actions if muslims had taken the land is wrong. i and most pakistanis/muslims would not condone such actions. throughout history there is a distinct difference on the treatment of jews in muslim lands then to that of jews in christian lands!

[quote]
Sharaabi...actually i didnt change my approach...it is a nationalistic struggle but Muslims care bacuase they see it as an Islamic issue...
[/quote]

its a worldwide issue, are you saying that the greater white/jewish/christians have not taken part since the very beginning? is not a massive conspiracy?

[quote]

I simply outlined that there is no such thing as stolen land...all that has happened is various conquests...interesting points regarding ethnic groupings but it doesnt detract from the fact that both feel they have a divine right to the land and do whatever is in their control to make that a reality...the Jews simply took their chance...
[/quote]

theres is a such thing as stolen land just like there is stolen money and other stolen property.

[quote]
Hyperactive...its because of views like yours that one can understand why the Jews clamp down on their enemies...isnt it the intelligent thing to do...its not as if Palestinians want to integrate is it...
[/quote]

one of the perils of the situation, by design and tactics is that people will get angry, very angry. if what people are seeing is unjust then they will speak up

[quote]
Moonshiner...
I shouldnt but there has been a new event every day and the amount of leaflets pushed in my face is starting to seriously annoy...
[/quote]

the palestinian struggle doesnt need you, ya know. im sure you know how to calmly sidestep leafleters, but since you disagree with their cause too it pisses you off? as you can gather from here many people disagree with you also.

[quote]
Hareem...maybe thats the case but they still ive true to their ideology which is from their perspective they believe this to be their land and are simply acting upon that...just like we have concepts of what constitutes islamic lands...
[/quote]

very nice of you to appreciate 'their' ideology. you know a just two state solution would bring peace there but that isnt going to happen and thats what causes the tension to mount up. another israelli fault

its interesting that you use the 'wars happen' line to justify and encourage staying silent, thats very cold, too cold.

20

Re: Anti-israel thing at my uni...why it pisses me off...

" their ideology ".....you mean Jewish Ideology or Zionist Ideology? Because according to Jewish Ideology Jews have no right on that land anymore.