Re: Another Story of Hadhrat Abu Hurairah's (Radhiyal-lahu anhu) Hunger
Hi Ibn-sadique,
First of all nice to see u active again bro ... nice response u havent yet answered my question completly, when did he accpet islam is still un answered.
Anway i remeber i still owe u a source on hazrat haroon and musa ... I havtn forgotten ... U know its easy to get a source online hard to find books and getting em in ur hands specially when u r busy with uni ... But i wud leave u with a question upon that topic ... Is Hazrat Haroon a.s mentioned as wasi of Hazrat musa a.s in Quran ? i do admire ur knowledge and i hope u wud have an answer for it ... not coz i wana test u... its because i wana know :)
Abt the confusion u mentioned, I have my faith based on sunni sources coz if i only trust shia sources then it wud bother me if sunni's belive in different things while claiming that they r following same Quran and specially coz they r in majority, soo i mostly go back to sunni sources and get reffernce ... i know its hard for u to understand :) its okay u will get it when u r in my shoes :)
Re: Another Story of Hadhrat Abu Hurairah’s (Radhiyal-lahu anhu) Hunger
The answer was there in the link which I had provided – He accepted Islam quite early at the hands of Hz. at-Tufayl ibn Amr (ra)
So he stayed with the Prophet (saw) for the last four years of Prophet (saw)’s blessed life.
It was Prophet (saw)’s saying ‘Ameen’ after dua of Hz. Abu Hurayrah’s (ra) to be granted “knowledge which will not be forgotten." which is the key to the success of Hz. Abu Hurayrah’s (ra)remembering and narrating so many aHadith.
You can read about Prophet Musa (Moses) & Prophet Harun (Aaron) over here:
The following link is very important for you as regards to what you want to know – It refutes all Shia stances. (Please read it as it is important to what you want to know)
Read the Sermon of Hz. Ali (ra) advising Muslims to be “with the great majority (of Muslims) because Allah’s hand (of protection) is on keeping unity.”
…With regard to me, two categories of people will be ruined, namely he who loves me too much and the love takes him away from rightfulness, and he who hates me too much and the hatred takes him away from rightfulness. The best man with regard to me is he who is on the middle course. So be with him and be with the great majority (of Muslims) because Allah’s hand (of protection) is on keeping unity. You should beware of division because the one isolated from the group is (a prey) to Satan just as the one isolated from the flock of sheep is (a prey) to the wolf…………….. -Nahj al-Balaghah - Sermon 127
So how about heeding the advise of Hz. Ali (ra) and join the camp of the majority of the Muslims – and you well know who they are and always have been the overwhelming majority – now, now don’t come out with some lame excuses
I rather you stay in permanently in your shoes and that I stay as far from your shoes as possible
Re: Another Story of Hadhrat Abu Hurairah’s (Radhiyal-lahu anhu) Hunger
Thanks for he comment in the end, but i didnt mean it the way u took it.. Lets talk abt link u provided
I love the way u just only noted the part that concerned you and ignored what ever was said just before … however i do admire that u included that in your post.
two categories of people will be ruined, namely he who loves me too much and the love takes him away from rightfulness, and he who hates me too much and the hatred takes him away from rightfulness. The best man with regard to me is he who is on the middle course.
So there are people who consider Ali ALLAH, to me these are the people who Imam Ali a.s is reffering to as *he who loves me too much.*And there are people who fought Imam Ali a.s in wars that is mavia and his followers Includes you .. *he who hates me too much. *Then there are people me who dont call Imam Ali ALLAH and neither support his enimies who is on the middle course.
The best man with regard to me is he who is on the middle course. So be with him and be with the great majority (of Muslims) because Allah’s hand (of protection) is on keeping unity
Now if its just about following Majority and word muslim is in brackets (of muslims) then in india people should be following hindus ( they are in majority) and word muslim is only in translation not in lecture.
But imam Ali mentions first which majority are we following … I personally think its majority of Momins. As following majority who support Enimies of Ali counts me as a haters of Imam Ali so there is no way i am praising Mavia.
Now there are sects in Shia’s as well as you know … So i am supposed to " Not call Imam Ali ALLAH and not paraise his enimies… and who ever is left i shld be following majority of them. So follow the majority of those who are in middle ( momins ).
So why dont u try to find where u belong according to lecture of Imam Ali and get urself ready for consiquences. Thats staying in ur own shoes.
Re: Another Story of Hadhrat Abu Hurairah’s (Radhiyal-lahu anhu) Hunger
[quote=“aqeel123, post:16, topic:179143”]
Thanks for he comment in the end, but i didnt mean it the way u took it..
Aqeel I know what you meant – I was just lightheartedly ‘teasing’ you, hoping that you have sense of humour.
I quoted the relevant part and did provide the link so that the whole sermon could be read by anyone interested the plus point is that I earned a bit of admiration from you too.
Aqeel you are twisting the words of Hz. Ali (ra) to fit your requirements.
Hz. Ali (ra) is addressing Muslims – Yes the word Muslim is in brackets – For sure I did not put it there!
It has been put there by the ‘authorities’ at the Shia Website – check it again -
Because they know the Hz. Ali (ra) is addressing Muslims!
Hindus don’t get counted in. So don’t give example of Indian Hindus!
You should know that Non Muslims have always outnumbered the Muslims.
Answer this question: Do you count those who take Hz. Ali (ra) as Allah (swt) as Muslims? Do you consider Alawis as Shias? Yes, they are off-shoot of Twelvers Shias. Read more about them over here:
In General the Shias love Hz. Ali (ra) too much – and it is common to hear Shias say ‘Ali’ ‘Ali’ more that ‘Allah’ ‘Allah’ or ‘Muhammad’ ‘Muhammad’
Kharijites are the ones who hate Hz. Ali (ra)
So the safe bet is that overwhelming Majority of Muslims is Sunni and has always been so. And they do love Hz. Ali (ra) but maybe not to your liking.
I am very content being with the overwhelming majority. Ready to face or enjoy the consequences firmly stuck in my shoes and did manage to use a bit of super glue to make sure! On personal note, I have one son and his name is Ali!
Re: Another Story of Hadhrat Abu Hurairah’s (Radhiyal-lahu anhu) Hunger
[quote=“Ibn_Sadique, post:12, topic:178916”]
I dun have problem with nosehries or Ahmedi’s being muslims … or ismaili being shias… cant debate over it or it wud be accurate if i say i dun wana argue abt it… But you wud agree that nosehris go extreme however i dun have anything against em … one thing i will tell you is, i dun belief something coz a shia scholar said it…There are shia books saying Rasool s.a.w had 4 daugthers and i dun agree with it. So things like that keep showing up every now and then … not accusing the writer who translated the lecture or anything, coz he might be considering the people who love Ali too much or Hate Ali too much out of Islam or coz when Ali said in the sentence before it that people who hate me too much are away from rightfullness, then how can mavia and his followers can be right according to this lecture … I am not twisting Ali’s words when there is something in brackets u shld know that, this part is added to make sense in traslation … or to tell who is imam Ali in nahjul blagha or ALLAH in Quran reffering too.
Soo by naming your son Ali and loving mavia u cant prove that you Love Imam Ali. I have seen Ali shair Haideri leader of Sipah-e-sahaba on youtube soo just having this name is not enough … The requirement of mawadat is When You Love Ahley bait a.s then u shldnt praise theire . Wether its a Caliph or azwaj-e-Rasool … when they come against Ali they r out, out of circle that shld be followed.
And a lover of ALi doesnt have to prove to anyone that he loves Ali … but a hater “Muqasar” does need to show that he has problem with Name of Ali … i wonder how y do u compare ALLAH with Ali … When we do belive that ALLAH is his khaliq. Then there is no question of comparing ALLAH and Ali… but if i know someone has problem with name of ALI i wud say it more in front of him. When ALLAH and his Rasool s.a.w praised Ali y shldnt we ? You guys calim that you respect all Sahaba’s same … but we would hear name of few sahaba more than others … this doesnt necesarilly mean u like one more than other … So Saying Ali More offer cant be taken as we dont Love his Lord … After all he is Ali’s lord and thanks to him for blessing us Prophet s.a.w like Mohammed and with Imam like Ali a.s
Re: Another Story of Hadhrat Abu Hurairah's (Radhiyal-lahu anhu) Hunger
[quote="Ibn_Sadique, post:12, topic:178916"]
I dun have problem with nosehries or Ahmedi's being muslims ...
That says it all – Applying the same standard to whom you take to be Ahlul Bayt or Ali (ra) haters and lovers – is just your personal opinion – nothing more nothing less.
Alavis (nosehries) give divinity to Hz. Ali (ra) and you have no problem taking them to be Muslims!
I have a problem with that you have no problem with Alavi beliefs.
I’m out of this thread.
This thread is about Hz. Abu Hurayrah (ra) and I am quoting myself again to let you see why he had such a prolific memory to narrator hadith.
Hz. Abu Hurayrah (ra) made a sincere supplication saying: "O Lord, (I ask You for what my two companions have asked and) I ask You for knowledge which will not be forgotten."
In response the Prophet ( peace be on him) said: 'Ameen.'
Now you cannot begrudge why Allah (swt) accepted the supplication to which the most beloved of Allah (swt) had said in response: 'Ameen.'
Re: Another Story of Hadhrat Abu Hurairah's (Radhiyal-lahu anhu) Hunger
If you do thats ur call, i dun have any problem in a sense that i have no right to call a person kafir as when he considers himself muslim..... its between them and thier Lord... we have enough people out there to declare fatwas ! and abt having a problem with their belives am here debating and arguing with sunni's .... i've nothing personal against u guys and u all know that, So on bases of belives i wud be arguing ... but again who am i to cal someone kafir ! .... Anybody who says Thanks to ALLAH i wont call em kafir.
yep i was just thinkin where did we start this thread and how far have we got ....
Re: Another Story of Hadhrat Abu Hurairah's (Radhiyal-lahu anhu) Hunger
This isnt relevent butt I sometimes wonder ... when did abu hurera accept islam, I've heared that was fateh-makah, so how long did he stay with prophet s.a.w that He has couted so many hadiths ?
though his intentions are way different than mine, still i have the same question in mind.
Re: Another Story of Hadhrat Abu Hurairah's (Radhiyal-lahu anhu) Hunger
@aqeel
where in the world did you get the idea that suni Muslims don't love Ali (Ra)? Off course, no individual can call other person a kafir but Islamic text can!
Re: Another Story of Hadhrat Abu Hurairah's (Radhiyal-lahu anhu) Hunger
Ok there is a mr. X and he claims he loves ALLAH and then he says he loves Shaitaan too, its just that he made one mistake but he was a guy who worshiped alot more than we can imagine, Now i dun think Mr.X loves ALLAH enough. Coz If he loves ALLAH he wudnt love shiataan.
bfr you think of anything wrong i shld mention am trying to compare shia and sunni defination of love. Not anything else.
Now If you love Ali a.s u need to to dislike his enimies .... Atleast not praise em. And if its not hate then how would u account for the problem u have with shia's when a shia says Ali Ali too much... Hazrat Meesum did it all along. And according to defination that Ibn-e-saddique provided that
Kharajites are the people who hate him too much and shias are the people who love him too much : if i keep this defination in mind then according to you Imam Ali a.s is telling his followers that people following me and kharajites are wrong and mavia's army is in middle !so join majority of mavia's army. think abt it yaaar please make some sense !
Ibn-e-siddique also said shai's say Ali Ali more than ALLAH, Shldnt be ur concern ... But lets see. If a shia prays five times a day, he will say name of ALLAH 500 times in tasbeeh. 100 times in each prayer. Am not counting the the time u recall him in prayers. It also goes back to the point that Ali is name of ALLAH. So dont be bothered by name of ALI coz his adawat isnt gona take u anywhere. I think there are shia's who say YA hussain more than Ya Ali this doesnt mean that he loves one more than other. ALLAH is thier khaliq and when we belive that there is no comparision left between khaliq and makhlooq. However i shld mention Punjtaan pak are ALLAHS best Maklooq.
Islamic text has a right to do that .... ALLAH has a right to ask for our prayers and our belives, No one has to account for there believes in front of me... And i have no right to consider someone kaffir, its between him and ALLAH. I wudnt agree with them if they want me to say ALI is ALLAH ... na-aoz-billah ... ALI is ALLAH's Abd ... ALI prays to ALLAH .... ALI did Sajdas to ALLAH. So i cant call Ali ALLAH and i cant call anyone kafir when he claims to be muslim.... May ALLAH guide those and us !
Musrik, munafiq, maqasir and shian-e-mavia are the words i dunt hesitate to use !
wasalam
Aqeel
Re: Another Story of Hadhrat Abu Hurairah's (Radhiyal-lahu anhu) Hunger
brothers salam
first of all we need to determine did the majority sect of present day of shias exist at that time ?
secondly how exactly were the people of the middle path different from the extremes theologically ?
Re: Another Story of Hadhrat Abu Hurairah's (Radhiyal-lahu anhu) Hunger
present day shia's are no where close to shia's of that time, I am talkin abt most..... Imam Ali doesnt cosnider a person his shia if he misses tahajud, present day shia's are having problem with naraa-e-haidery !!!
exsistence shldnt be a question specially to shia's ... coz Imam's word can be followed yesterday today and tommorow !
Shias at that time ... ammar-e-yasir, Malik-e-ashtar, Meesum-e-tammar Salam-e-farsi, Abu zar ghfari are examples that cant be compared ( belive wise or amal wise) to present day shia's. I shld also mention these people and some others are people who followed him as first Imam and didnt follow caliphs before which seems to be the reason Salman farsi had to move. There were people who also followed him as 4th caliph ( karajites ) or shld i say parasites... and these are the people who left Ali a.s alone when mavia's army raised Quran on spears... This is where we say Ali a.s is Quran-e-natiq.
secondly how exactly were the people of the middle path different from the extremes theologically ?
That wud account, where extremes are prasing his eneimies and calling him like ourselves. And other extreme is Calling him ALLAH. Being in middle is ... neither calling him ALLAH nor calling him like ourselves, but how wud this make sense when some people consider Rasool s.a.w like them.
wasalam
Aqeel
Re: Another Story of Hadhrat Abu Hurairah's (Radhiyal-lahu anhu) Hunger
^ bro what i was trying to say is that the doctrine of the present shia and sunni sects did not exist in those days ....infact there is little evidence that any muslims had any religious sects at all
the political grps were
pro-uthman party of syrians marwan and muawiyah did not accept Ali [as]as caliph
Pro-Ali [as] party which was in power at that time in all caliphate except syria
pro-uthmani but anti-ummayyid party like abdullah b zubair , reluctantly accepted ALi [as] as caliph after Jamal
genuine neutrals like sa'd b abi waqqas [ra] , muslim b musalima[ra] etc though acknowledged Ali as caliph
khawarij who were intially part of Pro-Ali party ...
all these grps had distinct objectives with little overlap
the concept of neither the "fourth rightly guided caliph" nor "first imam" were forged in those days in its present form ....so to blame each other with words of ameer ulmomineen nowadays is basically pointless
Re: Another Story of Hadhrat Abu Hurairah's (Radhiyal-lahu anhu) Hunger
The sects arnt mentioned here..... Coz i dunt think any body prometed sects ... and i cant disagree with you... there were no sects but ...if u look at word shia it means groh, group ... So pro-Ali a.s party which was in power can also be called shian-e-ali .... these parties eventually became sects thats what i think !
Re: Another Story of Hadhrat Abu Hurairah's (Radhiyal-lahu anhu) Hunger
... So pro-Ali a.s party which was in power can also be called shian-e-ali .... these parties eventually became sects thats what i think !
you are right ....but is this justified? no one has a right to introduce innovation in religion and those who did whether it was inventing a concept of imamate or turning caliphate into kingship are equally guilty
this certainly did not take place in the life of Ali b abitalib or his sons
Re: Another Story of Hadhrat Abu Hurairah's (Radhiyal-lahu anhu) Hunger
It is indeed a very smart question, i wud take my time to answer that
but bfr i answer i dunno ur believes so i have to ask do u believe in hadees kisa ?
Re: Another Story of Hadhrat Abu Hurairah's (Radhiyal-lahu anhu) Hunger
you are right ....but is this justified? no one has a right to introduce innovation in religion and those who did whether it was inventing a concept of imamate or turning caliphate into kingship are equally guilty
this certainly did not take place in the life of Ali b abitalib or his sons
this is what i was reffering too, When Rasool s.a.w was in this word Imam Ali called his follower shia
[QUOTE]
being shia does not neccesarily mean that they accept the doctrine of imamate as given by fiqah-e-jafaria...it only means a supporter
