Assalamualaikum,
As we know, many Muslims believe that Ahmadis are kafir because they do not believe in Muhammad(S.A.W.) being Allah’s final messenger, and other things. So my questions is, do Ahmadis also think everyone who does not believe in the prophethood of Ahmad Mirza is a kafir?
Bismhi Ta'la
'Assalam o 'alaikum
As I have read, the fatwa of Mirza Tahir Mahmood stands that those who do not believe in Mirza Ghulam Ahmed as the promised Messiah are in fact kafirs.
Apart from this, the theological argument is as follows. Allah, subhanahu sends a Prophet, out of His grace (lutf) to mankind, and it is this grace that infact can be a witness against those who will belie the messenger and reject his message, in totality. When Mirza Saheb came, he infact declared himself as a Prophet, and it is by virtue of this declaration, that those who followed him were believers and others were not.
Hence, we can also understand that the finality of Prophethood is, as a matter of fact grace to the Ummah, since it does not leave the door open for any other to proclaim his messengership and cause confusion among the Ummah.
Perhaps a most important question to ask is: why did Mirza Saheb claim Prophethood? I am sure my learned Ahamdies can shed more light, since I have said enough.
Iltimase duas
Abbas, Ali
who cares about the fatwa of mirza,qadyanis are kafir .
Ali Abbas....Can u tell me how your so called prophet died? I post a reply earlier somewhere about it.
Who cares about the fatwah of one who doesn't beleive in our Kalmah the very first part of Eeman.
Who cares about the fatwa of mirza,Qadyanis are kafir.
Assalamualaikum,
Thank you everyone, for your responses. I also believe that Qadyanis are kafir. I don't really care about Ahmed Mirza, but I merely wanted to know whether they would also consider me a kafir. And according to your responses, it seems that they would. That's all I wanted to know.
'Bismihi Ta’la
'Assalam o alaikum
For the record, I am not a follower of either the Lahori or the Ahmadiyya jamaat. How-ever, my interest and a fair sake treatment to other schools asks of me to read about them, from their own sources. Not necessarily what pseudo Islamic scholars have to offer.
Regards
Abbas, Ali
http://www.al-islam.org
assalamolaikum,
I'm an ahmadi and for everyone's information, Ahmadis do NOT consider those who do not believe in Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad a kafir. We do believe that they are kafirs of the promised Messiah and Mehdi.. but as long as any one declares 'Laa ilaha illAllah Muhammad ur Rasool ul Allah' they are Muslims because the Holy Prophet pbuh considered such a person to be a Muslim. It is YOU who go against the Holy Prophet (pbuh)'s way, not us.
Also, the reason we believe Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad to be a prophet is because the Holy Prophet (pbuh) called the Mehdi and Messiah "Nabi uAllah" (prophet of God), and we believe Hazrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad to be that Mahdi and Messiah.
Please brush up on your knowledge of Islam AND Ahmadiyyat before attempting to tell others about it. Most of you are sincere in thinking Ahmadis are not muslims i believe.. and you may not be willing to listen to our point of view.. but atleast show some manners in voicing your opinions.. slandering religious figures was not the way of our prophet Muhammad, may peace and blessings of Allah be on him and his family.
one more thing:
The translation of the kalima is "There is no God but Allah, and Muhammad is His Messenger"... NOT "last messenger". we believe the Holy Prophet Muhammad pbuh to be "khatamunabiyeen"..but that does not mean last of all prophets.. it's the last of law bearing prophets and most perfect of prophets.. the seal of prophets. it's a long discussion.. can't do it here.. read our literature.
i'm just visiting on the net.. don't have access.. sorry if i can't answer anything said to my replies.
If Mirza Ghulam Ahmed calls himself the
Mehdi or the Massiah than he is a BIG liar.
Why ? Because none of the signs of Imam Mehdi or Massiah as told by the Holy Prophet Mohammed (peace be upon him) fits him.
They are several authentic hadeeths that tell us about the events and comming of Imam Mehdi and Massiah. With due respect NONE of them fits Mirza Ghulam. Unfortunately only the ignorants are getting misguided.
This Mirza guy was actually a highly paid,
covert agent of the Queen of England.
Sensing the possible revival of Islam across
the land from the Indus to the Oxus during the early
twentieth century, largly as a result of
Indian Muslim support of the Turks, the British Raj in India conspired with this
local Lahore resident to create a rift within the Muslim communities of India.
Those unfortunate souls who got corrupted
by this greedy bastard are paying to this day
as their generations are totally spoilt, corrupted and filthy.
I know lots of Ahmadi families and they are
like non-Muslims.
Ahmadis should ask themselves: What's the use of believe in this Mirza guy?? What possible benefit could they derive out of believing in him other than the more than probable Hell-fire.
La Ilaha Il Allah, Muhammad Rasul Allah.
Ashhado Anha La Ilaha Il Allaho Wadahu La Shareek, Wa Ashhado Anha Muhammad Wa Abdahu Wa Rasulho.
[This message has been edited by Bukhari (edited January 13, 1999).]
Dearest qudsia,
i’m an ahmedi too, being on this forum for a pretty long time would like to talk about some issues of great concern, and would be greatly pleasured to recieve an email from you.
Dear Asif,
please note that hazrat mirza ghulam ahmed sahab of qadian, was not in any way comparable to your fatwa-baaz cunning molvis, some of whom devote their lives to disgrace people and kick them out of the the circle of islam.
Relating the definition of Islam, peophet muhammad ordered to include all such people in muslims, who called themselves muslims ( saheeh bokhari), and at another occasion, who say the kalima (again from saheeh bokhari) therefore we have no right to change or disregard the definition of muslim as presented by prophet muhammad.
it is not at all surprising, though extremely depressing that some of the people here, although like to prefer hadith on koran, but do not believe in a simple and common hadith about the definition of muslims, thus cooking up their own definitions, which are not at all related to islam and koran.
can anyone dare call me a kafir?
hazrat mirza sahab of qadian, with a grace and dignity, like all those sent by allah, announces abut this matter:
“hur woh musalmaan jis tak meri tableegh puhunch chukee hai, go woh musalmaan hai, magar mujhay apna hakam nahee theraata, aur na mujhay maseeh mo’ood maanta hai, woh aasman pur kabil-e-mawakhza hai, kyonke jis amar ko us nay wakt pur kabool kerna tha, us ko rud ker diya.”
this depicts, that niether is their any compulsion, nor any threatening. if someone wants to believe, to his own gain, if someone doesnt, to his own loss!
but it would be inetresting to listen to the remarks of some hadith-lovers for this saheeh hadith, taken from hazrat imam bokhari’s book:
" anyone, who calls a kalma sayer, an unbeliever, is an unbeliever himself."
differences in beliefs are but natural for human beings, but for the sake of prophet whom we both believe in, for the sake of god, who is your lord, and our lord, try not to cross the lines the above mentioned hadith has laid, may allah be our protector.
peace!
Jewels, what exactly do you believe about Mirza? Qudsia said that he is a Prophet. This is what Qudsia said you believe about Muhammad (S.A.W.):
"...it's the last of law bearing prophets and most perfect of prophets.. the seal of prophets."
But Mahdi (A.S.) is not a Prophet. Also, from the last sermon, Muhammad(S.A.W.) said something to the effect that there will be no more Prophets after him.
Tell me more about these molvis. I have a vague idea of what they are but it's really not clear to me. I just want to clear up one thing before we talk more about this: I know that there are some Sunnis who say things like shias are not Muslim, this sect is not Muslim, that sect is not Muslim, but I never take their word for it. I always ask them why these people are not Muslim. If I have accepted that someone is not Muslim, it's because they managed to answer my questions.
The once thing that reinforces my belief that Mirza could not have been Mahdi(A.S.) is the way he died. If you don't want to believe that which I am about to tell you now without proof, then don't. I don't have the time to look up the references, and when I would have time, I'll probably want to do something else. So you may take these words to be mine and not told by the Prophet(S.A.W.), or the Sahaba(R.A.), since I can't provide you with references. You just need to know that I believe it.
So here's what I wanted to say: Allah has humiliated the enemies of Islam in the past, one example is when the Kuffar at the time of Noah(A.S.) didn't believe him. When he was building the ark, they used to go in it and urinate and defacate. So Allah caused those people to have a skin disease, which they could not figure out how to treat. So one day, one of them urinated on himself, and found that his skin condition got better. So they figured out that that was how to cure it. So they went in the ark and their own waste on themselves to take care of their skin condition.
I see Mirza's death as just another example of this kind of humiliation.
Listen People
There is no gain in trying to convince someone who interpretted the Kalima for his own benefit.
Mr Mirza was and will always be a liar, he didnt posses enough guts to become a decent human being not to talk bout being a muslim or Nabi.
Does anyone know how he died?
Please tell us bout it, our all knowing and all so highly intellectual Qaidian bros.
o sharam aur hayaa say door logo,
mujhay tumharay akwaal say koi ranj nahee, kyonke tum nay bay-eemaano kay aik tareek ko poora kiya! hur aik nabi, aur khuda ka mamoor, saadik aur sadeek jo bhee is dunya main aaya, is ko tum badbakhto nay jhoota kaha. kaafir kaha.
ai had say barhnay walo,
kya aisay musalmanoko kaafir kehtay ho jo islam kay haami hain, aur zameen pay hujjatullah hain!
aap log apni zubaanain mulahiza kero! agar musalmaan aap jaisay hotay, to islam ka khaatma!
na samjho,
allah say dero, jis amer kokabool kerna tha usay thukraatay ho, jo khuda nay bheja usay kaafir kehtay ho!
afsos, kay baysharmi ki jhooti baatain ker kay tum logon nay apni ruswai kerwai, aur hur parhnay waaly ki nazar main na sirf khood zaleel huwe balkay islam ko bheezaleel kerwaya!
zara in islam kay daawedaro kee zubanain to dekho! ilm ka yeh haal hai kay kalima ka matlab nahee aata!
mir sahab, zara apnay molvi sahab say ja kay poochain kalima ka kya matlab hai! wohee matlab bataain gay jo qudsia nay likha! agar aisa ho gayaa to sharam say mur na jaain gay aap?
aap ki baaton main jo sakht kalaami, thatha aur mazaak hai, woh kisi sachay ki zubaan main to kabhi nahee paaya gaya! pus aapki baat mujh pay kya asar keray, kya kisi ahmedi ko musalmaan banaye, aap say to musalmaan bhee bhaagtay hain!
bayhayaee kee baaton, aur mazaak main aap guzashta munkereen say bilkul kum nahee. hasee aur aiza pohnchaana kisi nabi ka kaam nahee raha..aaplogonnay kahan say seekh liya?
asif sahab, zara yeh to batain, aap nay yeh jo khoob sach bola hai... aa ko pata hai na kay laanatullah -e- minul kazibeen.
jhootay pur khuda ka azaab hota hai! kya wajah hai kay jamaat-e-ahmediyya pur khuda ka inaam hee inaam hai?
bata sirf itni haykay deen aur bay-hayaee aik saath nahee chal saktay.. pus aap ki bayhayayee aao ki baydeeni pay gawah hai!
is forum ko parhnay waalay hur shaks nay dekh liya kay 10 molvi sahabaan nay mil kay aik ahmedi ko hur mumkin tareekay say mazaak aur haseeka nishana bananay ki koshish kee, magar jahaan baat koran ki aaye to lajawaab huwe!
jo gurha mere liye khoda tha us main khood gir gaye, mujhay zaleel kernay waalay aap zaleel huwe! aonay paoon pay kulhari maar ker is discussion main apni bay izzati kerwai!
Hey, Ji, why don't you tell us how he died your so called Nabi.
Aey Bhai JewsOfMuslimInheritance
Kiya ghanss chur gaiey ho, ye kiya Urdu mein rona gana shru kur diya hey.
Agr Kuch samajeh mein nehi a reha hey tu kuch araam kur lo, aur pher is sahieh Kalima per lo, inshahallah demagh ka fatoor accha ho gaiey ga.
App ka Mukhlis Doost
ponkay miaan,
suna hai deen aur bay-hayaee ka koi meel nahee.. deen ko bay-hayaee raas nahee.. pus aap ki bay-hayaee aap ki bay-deeni pay saboot hai!
wagarna koran to kehta hai:
"dont even disrespect someone's false religious figures"
is verse kay hote huwe apnay aap ko apni nazronmain hee musalmaan saabit ker lo to buhut hai!