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Who said that in Islam things have to be perfect (perfect compared to what ?) and how can this term be used synonymously with "better", "ideal", "a must", when the three words themselves have nothing in common ?
[This message has been edited by deepblue (edited April 14, 1999).]
Dear NYahmadi,
Extremely true!!
While god sent prrophets to people living in all parts of the world, each one was sent with ways to be taught to his own part of the world. religions before islam emphasize on this. christian texts narrate jesus mentioning the helping of those other than the sons of israel as "feeding the bread of boys to dogs." similarly, hinduism does not even allow its followers to talk about religion, with those out of its geaographical boundaries.
Thus those religions, which were meant for a certain part of the world can not, and must not be thrusted upon all of the world, simply because it is not possible, as explained by you. in a very beatiful sentence, you said something profound,
"Arguing that one belief system in suited for the entire human kind makes as much sense as saying that everyone on planet earth should speak only Punjabi."
very true, my friend, very true!
however, i would like to add to it:
"For a belief system to claim to be suited to entire human kind, it must possess a dynamic ability of flexability."
thus having orders which could be "better", "ideal", or in some cases, "a must"!
Thus if islam is true, and if the claim of prophet mohammad, for it being a universal religion, is a true one. islam MUST BE flexible, and we must let go terms like "perfect" and replace them with "better", "ideal", or in certain cases, "a must"!!!
thats what ahmediyyat is all about!
waiting for your comments :)
[This message has been edited by jewels of insignificance (edited April 14, 1999).]
yeah.
NYAhmadi,
You said,
First of all, I am not talking about Islam. <
Well, I am.
the term “perfect” if substituted with the other terms will not change the underlying concept that established belief systems (including religions) should be abandoned<
And my point was that you looked at religion from a very simplistic viewpoint - bringing everything under one word 'perfect'. With this logic, you are bound to come up with what you deduced. In fact if I replace the word perfect in your first post, with replacements (like better, ideal etc.) having different meanings, I can come up to entirely different conclusion. But I am tired, and I am sure you can do it too.
Perspective is everything.
Regards.
yeah.
Dear NYAhmadi,
Being a student of religion, i find your concern to be almost perfectly true! so i agree to your opinion that the established beleif systems have actually become extremely rigid, and therefore, have not remained capable of being followed any more!
However, does this mean we should leave religion alone altogether? This can be done upto the extent of having secular form of government, but its practically impossible to go beyond that, as you may yourself agree.
The fact that "one feels like walking on a sword’s edge for one to be in accordance with one’s faith" is a problem which is to be blamed solely on the behaviour of the current day followers of belief systems, rather than to beleif systems themselves.
For me, there are two possible solutions:
1) choosing a flexible beleif system.
2) rejecting all belief systems.
for me, the first one seems to be a better option.
So be on watch for a day when heaven shall bring a manifest smoke
covering the people; this is a painful chastisement. 'O our lord remove thou from us, the chastisement; we are believers.' How should they have the reminder? seeing a clear Messenger has already come to them, then they turned away from him, and said,' A man, tutored, possessed!"
( the koran, verse 11-14, chapter 44, Smoke, the nuclear explosion.)
Mr Ahmadi you wrote the following lines:
" . For example, if the only source of dietary protein is Pigs on an Island, how can one tell those inhabitants that eating pigs is not allowed. How can one tell a cancer patient that smoking marijuana or using pharmaceutical opium is not allowed to relieve pain. "
Well does that mean that if I really want to have sex how can you tell me NOT to rape someone, if I really want to drive a Merc 500SEL then how can you tell me to NOT to steal, if I am craving to kill someone just because I am sick of life should I just kill someone, if I really want to get 'high' then I can use cocaine......
I think your reasoning for committing the deeds in those kind of circumstances is wrong. If you feel that people of an island should eat pig since it is the only source of protien then what would you say to a man who lives in an island with only one female human who doesn't want to copulate with him, should he rape her????
NNNOOOO for HEAVEN's SAKE!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry pal, I don't agree with you. Given the extreme circumstances one HAS to abstain; that is what the religion teaches us, any religion.
Cheers!
Hamid
NYAhmadi
The whole idea behind following any religion is to have ease and comfort in one's life. Religion is not meant to be a hardship on people. Being a muslim, I believe that the teachings of Islam are meant to bring peace and harmony in the lives of all mankind. Islam prohibits eating pigs and it has been proven that it is harmful. So is the alcohol. It is sunnat to shave armpits since it is necessary to maintain good hygeine. Likewise many other orders can be explained in terms of common sense and science. The hardest part however is in submitting one's will to the order of our Creator. We like to think that we know what's better for us and we don't want any one to dictate to us how to live yet we forget we are merely a creation of Allah who created us and knows more about us than ourselves. Can we really believe that the perfect harmony that flows through our universe is a product of some bizarre evolutionary process that occurred without interference from an external Agent. We would be deluding ourselves with such thinking. We can even learn from our own experiences that it is our destiny written by Allah that shapes our lives rather than us shaping our destiny. Even if we choose to let go of all belief systems we will still be following a system of our own and it will have flaws in it. Sooner or later our systems will conflict with each others and create chaos which exactly any belief system
is supposed to prevent from happening. The best system to choose is the one divinely ordained by Allah which is completely flawless.
[This message has been edited by iqadeer (edited April 17, 1999).]
Brothers NY Ahmadi & Jewels of Insignificance: I share your pain & confusion; I hope that you'll find some answers in my reply, dated April 16, to the posting: A SINGLE UMMAH-PART 2, authored by Brother Hasnain. Pls note: below is copy of my reply to the section on: A Single Ummah-Part 2.
=========================================== A single Ummah has been the cherished dream of muslims since time immemorial-- but it HAS NOT HAPPENED and WILL NOT HAPPEN; and, you know why - because we, muslims as a whole, are the most INTOLERANT and UNCOMPASSIONATE people on this planet.
Islam is a religion of consensus & nation building but that sounds good only on paper and in discussion - like this forum; but, proof is in the pudding! Islam - today rules out of the barrel of a gun; there is no room for dissension or plurality. Today, our minorities: Hindus, Christians, Ahmedias, Bahais live in fear & persecution. Today, our Muslims sects - those who differ in their interpretation of the Quran are bombed and machine-gunned in their mosques, while they are in sajjud (prostration) to Allah, by their own muslim brothers. Muslims who disagree or are seculars in their outlook get their throat slits by army of marauders who call themself the true believers. These acts are NOT committed by a few 'ignorant', 'misguided' people; these are pre-meditated acts of pogroms carefully planned & directed by educated leaders with popular backing & support.
One Ummah - you say; Sure, but first! Let's educate & properly feed ourselves; let's elect leaders who are educated and have a balanced view on life; let's give equal rights to our sisters & mothers who comprise half of the population; Let's treat our minorities as our SACRED TRUST which is what they are; and above all- Let's imbibe compassion & tolerance in our deeds, because after all, first & foremost: Islam is a religion of Compassion & Tolerance.
UNTO YOU YOUR RELIGION, UNTO ME MINE...
Mr Xtreme