An interesting article about Quran and Science by a Bangladeshi Muslim

[basic_force]

Consider the following interesting article on “Quran and Science” by a Bangladeshi Muslim (His Nick Name is Mughal) on a bangladeshi internet discussion forum:
http://www.bangladesh.com/forums/showthread.php3?threadid=14179

THE SCIENCE AND THE QURAN

One must realise that science is factual ie experimental and theoretical knowledge about the world in which we live. In short science is about observation of our environment as far as it is possible for us to do so. Based upon our observations we can make assumptions as to what else may be there and try to create experiments by way of inventing systems and methods to be able to verify our those assumptions. Having as many facts as we have at any given time , we try to explain them and this explanation we call theory. The ideas that explain maximum number of available facts are accepted and the rest put on hold or rejected.

For example, the police find a body and examine it. They then make assumptions as to how the person might have met his death ie did he die a natural death? Was it an accidental death? Did the person commit suicide or was he murdered etc etc? They then look for clues as to which of their this assumption may be the correct one. For example, if the body and the place where the body was found shows no sign of foul play or suspicious clues then it is taken as a natural death. If the clues show signs of accident then it is taken as accidental death. If the clues show the signs of suicide then it is taken as suicide and likewise if the signs are found to raise suspicion of murder then the murder investigation is launched and different theories are created according to so far available information and thus various lines of inquiry are followed till conclusion is reached in this matter.

2. The followers of the quran have raised the claims that the quran is word of god and that the proof is, whatever the quran says about this world is true and can be verified by way of scientific exploration and research. They quote 4/82 for example ie if the quran was from other than god it would have had faults in it and since the quran does not have faults in it therefore the quran is word of god. This argument is invalid to begin with. One may ask, why is that? It is invalid because it can be proven true only one way and not the both ways. If the quran contains faults then it is definitely not perfect and therefore cannot be word of god either and so this argument becomes valid, for proof is in front of your eyes ie the faults in the alleged divine scripture.

Why the reverse is not true? If the quran did not contain even a single fault as regard this world, it can still not be free of suspicion and doubt as regard the information about the next world which remains to be verified or tested. Now the case is not only about the validity of the quranic statements regarding the hereafter but also as I have pointed out the quran contains many claims that are not verifiable even about this world eg did a man called noah ever exist? Do angels and demons really exist? So many of the quranic claims are mere claims and nothing more. The shooting stars driving away jinns makes no sense because jinns are not supposed to be effected by material things and if they are we should be able to detect their presence in this very world. The case is same with the idea of angles and spirits, for interaction between so called spiritual world ought to be either possible or not possible at all. Such quranic confusions in themselves are sufficient proof that most quranic claims are fiction and have nothing to do with the science.

3. Since muslims claim the quran is full of scienitific information I am going to comment on some quran verses as to their true meanings in contrast with science. So let us look at the verses in the quran regarding cosmology.

002.022
YUSUFALI: Who has made the earth your couch, and the heavens your canopy; and sent down rain from the heavens; and brought forth therewith Fruits for your sustenance; then set not up rivals unto Allah when ye know (the truth).

PICKTHAL: Who hath appointed the earth a resting-place for you, and the sky a canopy; and causeth water to pour down from the sky, thereby producing fruits as food for you. And do not set up rivals to Allah when ye know (better).

SHAKIR: Who made the earth a resting place for you and the heaven a canopy and (Who) sends down rain from the cloud then brings forth with it subsistence for you of the fruits; therefore do not set up rivals to Allah while you know.

My comments,

The quran here by word AL-ARD means the earth we are living on but what are the heavens= ASSAMAAWAAT? Where are they located looking from the earth? They are not spherical but semi-spherical. It is clear from this verse that heavens are skies one above the other ie domes raised high above the earth that are thought of as solid build physical structures. They are as solid as the earth itself but are made of some other material perhaps eg copper etc 55/37. The earth is thought to be the floor and the heavens the coverings over it like a tent or roof. This idea will become clear as we read more and more verses.

002.029
YUSUFALI: It is He Who hath created for you all things that are on earth; Moreover His design comprehended the heavens, for He gave order and perfection to the seven firmaments; and of all things He hath perfect knowledge.

PICKTHAL: He it is Who created for you all that is in the earth. Then turned He to the heaven, and fashioned it as seven heavens. And He is knower of all things.

SHAKIR: He it is Who created for you all that is in the earth, and He directed Himself to the heaven, so He made them complete seven heavens, and He knows all things.

My comment,

Now we are clearly told that there are seven heavens above the earth that are all almost identical. As we continue we will see that the quran tells us clearly that these heavens are one above the other. The way they are located is, they are all above the earth not below it. The rain is sent down from the lowest heaven to the earth so this heaven is actually visible from the earth as far as the quran is concerned. However, what is visible is the blue sky which is not a solid structure as the quran would have us believe. So it is the blue sky that is thought of as the lowest heaven which is made of solid material because it has doors and windows, and that pieces of it could break and fall on the people due to denying faith in the god of the quran.

The original articleis still longer. You can read whole article by following the above mentioned link.

[basic_force]

Further Points in the same article

002.258

YUSUFALI: Hast thou not Turned thy vision to one who disputed with Abraham About his Lord, because Allah had granted him power? Abraham said: "My Lord is He Who Giveth life and death." He said: "I give life and death". Said Abraham: "But it is Allah that causeth the sun to rise from the east: Do thou then cause him to rise from the West." Thus was he confounded who (in arrogance) rejected faith. Nor doth Allah Give guidance to a people unjust.

PICKTHAL: Bethink thee of him who had an argument with Abraham about his Lord, because Allah had given him the kingdom; how, when Abraham said: My Lord is He Who giveth life and causeth death, he answered: I give life and cause death. Abraham said: Lo! Allah causeth the sun to rise in the East, so do thou cause it to come up from the West. Thus was the disbeliever abashed. And Allah guideth not wrongdoing folk.

SHAKIR: Have you not considered him (Namrud) who disputed with Ibrahim about his Lord, because Allah had given him the kingdom? When Ibrahim said: My Lord is He who gives life and causes to die, he said: I give life and cause death. Ibrahim said: So surely Allah causes the sun to rise from the east, then make it rise from the west; thus he who disbelieved was confounded; and Allah does not guide aright the unjust people.

My comments,

Please note the science that Abraham has been taught by Allah according to the quran. He thinks that the sun rises from the east and so thinks it falls in the west. Allah is telling us about it very proudly and does not correct his mistake that it is not the sun that rises and falls but that this is how the people on the earth observe this phenomenon. The sun as compared to the flight of the earth around it is stationary. Its movement is only of importance when we talk about the movement of the whole solar system as compared to the rest of our galaxy. Because the idea at the time was that somebody eg an angel etc was moving the sun between the heaven and the earth hence the phenomenon of sunrise and sunset and so occurred this mistake.

Please read about the ancient concepts of the universe and all this will make perfect sense. It is because of this very concept that the author of the quran made such like statements as are found in the quran eg telling us that had allah wished he could have kept the night on the earth for ever or the day for that matter. Now those who know astronomy, know very well that the way the universe is, and in it our solar system is, it is impossible for such a thing to happen. For example, the only way to keep night permanently on the earth will be to remove the sun or its ability to shine. That will be the end of the solar system itself. Likewise to create permanent day on the earth will require more suns so that there is no darkness on the earth at all anywhere at any time. Or the earth will need to be made of some material that is clear so that sunlight gets through it everywhere, for night is result of earth’s own shadow on the other side that is not facing the sun.

As the earth rotates on its own axis the parts of the earth that were facing the sunlight before become dark and the parts that were dark now face the sunlight. The idea may be understood by experiment liking it to a person shining a beam of a torch on a football the while the football is being rotated at a constant speed in a dark room. There are many other implications if the earth was made of clear material eg that material may not have had the ability to give rise to living things. So the way things work is the only way they could be. In other words even if it was god who made this world yet he had to do it the best he could, for even god cannot be expected to not to do his best at the end of the day. Whichever way we look at this problem, it is a problem that the quran has landed itself into.

One must also note another point here about proof and proving. Abraham is looking for a proof from the infidel as regard his claim of being a god. He thinks that proof is necessary before anyone could accept anyone a god. Moreover he thinks that it should be in the power of god to make sun rise from the west ie god must be able to intervene directly. He also thinks that proof must be produced on demand, or he would not be right in asking for it. All this is backed by Allah because he is allegedly telling Abraham’s story with pride and the same is true in case of muhammad because he is given this message and he believes in it and thus backs it up. So if I ask my muslim brethren to furnish me with proof as to what they claim, it should not be anything out of the ordinary, should it? If we did not talk about proof and proving then anyone could claim anything and get away with it.

Since god can intervene directly according to the quran it creates a problem. How can we be asked to study nature if nature is not allowed to go its own natural way? Moreover if it was alright for god to make past people believe in him by showing miracles to them then why do we not need miracles from god or why would it be wrong for god to show similar miracles to us? According to the quran god’s way of doing things never changes and he does not like double standards 83/1-4 etc. So god will be in the wrong if he showed discrimination. If he was right to do things miraculously then, he is wrong to not to do them the same way now, for that will lead people to confusion. Likewise if he does things naturally now, he ought to do the same then or again people would have ended up confused. Consistency is vital for god or things would be chaotic ie not work out. So one can see how things are according to allegedly divine scriptures and in this case the quran.

025.045
YUSUFALI: Hast thou not turned thy vision to thy Lord?- How He doth prolong the shadow! If He willed, He could make it stationary! then do We make the sun its guide;

PICKTHAL: Hast thou not seen how thy Lord hath spread the shade - And if He willed He could have made it still - then We have made the sun its pilot;

SHAKIR: Have you not considered (the work of) your Lord, how He extends the shade? And if He had pleased He would certainly have made it stationary; then We have made the sun an indication of it

My comments,

Again one can see that the author of the quran is not aware of how solar system works. The only way shadows could be made stationary is by stopping the earth from rotating on its own axis. What will happen if the earth was stopped from rotating? The solar system would collapse, because balance of the forces that are keeping the solar system functioning would be seriously altered from the state of its equilibrium leading to its destruction.

[basic_force]

Still further points in the same article

050.038

YUSUFALI: We created the heavens and the earth and all between them in Six Days, nor did any sense of weariness touch Us.

PICKTHAL: And verily We created the heavens and the earth, and all that is between them, in six Days, and naught of weariness touched Us.

SHAKIR: And certainly We created the heavens and the earth and what is between them in six periods and there touched Us not any fatigue.

050.039

YUSUFALI: Bear, then, with patience, all that they say, and celebrate the praises of thy Lord, before the rising of the sun and before (its) setting.

PICKTHAL: Therefor (O Muhammad) bear with what they say, and hymn the praise of thy Lord before the rising and before the setting of the sun;

SHAKIR: Therefore be patient of what they say, and sing the praise of your Lord before the rising of the sun and before the setting

011.007

YUSUFALI: He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days - and His Throne was over the waters - that He might try you, which of you is best in conduct. But if thou wert to say to them, "Ye shall indeed be raised up after death", the Unbelievers would be sure to say, "This is nothing but obvious sorcery!"

PICKTHAL: And He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days - and His Throne was upon the water - that He might try you, which of you is best in conduct. Yet if thou (O Muhammad) sayest: Lo! ye will be raised again after death! those who disbelieve will surely say: This is naught but mere magic.

SHAKIR: And He it is Who created the heavens and the earth in six periods-- and His dominion (extends) on the water-- that He might manifest to you, which of you is best in action, and if you say, surely you shall be raised up after death, those who disbelieve would certainly say: This is nothing but clear magic.

057.021

YUSUFALI: Be ye foremost (in seeking) Forgiveness from your Lord, and a Garden (of Bliss), the width whereof is as the width of heaven and earth, prepared for those who believe in Allah and His messengers: that is the Grace of Allah, which He bestows on whom he pleases: and Allah is the Lord of Grace abounding.

PICKTHAL: Race one with another for forgiveness from your Lord and a Garden whereof the breadth is as the breadth of the heavens and the earth, which is in store for those who believe in Allah and His messengers. Such is the bounty of Allah, which He bestoweth upon whom He will, and Allah is of Infinite Bounty.

SHAKIR: Hasten to forgiveness from your Lord and to a garden the extensiveness of which is as the extensiveness of the heaven and the earth; it is prepared for those who believe in Allah and His messengers; that is the grace of Allah: He gives it to whom He pleases, and Allah is the Lord of mighty grace.

020.004

YUSUFALI: A revelation from Him Who created the earth and the heavens on high.

PICKTHAL: A revelation from Him Who created the earth and the high heavens,

SHAKIR: A revelation from Him Who created the earth and the high heavens.

020.005

YUSUFALI: (Allah) Most Gracious is firmly established on the throne (of authority).

PICKTHAL: The Beneficent One, Who is established on the Throne.

SHAKIR: The Beneficent Allah is firm in power.

020.006

YUSUFALI: To Him belongs what is in the heavens and on earth, and all between them, and all beneath the soil.

PICKTHAL: Unto Him belongeth whatsoever is in the heavens and whatsoever is in the earth, and whatsoever is between them, and whatsoever is beneath the sod.

SHAKIR: His is what is in the heavens and what is in the earth and what is between them two and what is beneath the ground.

My comments,

Here Allah clearly thinks that there is nothing out there outside the universe, for the heavens and the earth are the universe. There is no concept of anything being below the earth ie underneath it for the earth is as low as it can get and the heavens are as hight as they could be.

013.002

YUSUFALI: Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that ye can see; is firmly established on the throne (of authority); He has subjected the sun and the moon (to his Law)! Each one runs (its course) for a term appointed. He doth regulate all affairs, explaining the signs in detail, that ye may believe with certainty in the meeting with your Lord.

PICKTHAL: Allah it is Who raised up the heavens without visible supports, then mounted the Throne, and compelled the sun and the moon to be of service, each runneth unto an appointed term; He ordereth the course; He detaileth the revelations, that haply ye may be certain of the meeting with your Lord.

SHAKIR: Allah is He Who raised the heavens without any pillars that you see, and He is firm in power and He made the sun and the moon subservient (to you); each one pursues its course to an appointed time; He regulates the affair, making clear the signs that you may be certain of meeting your Lord.

013.003

YUSUFALI: And it is He who spread out the earth, and set thereon mountains standing firm and (flowing) rivers: and fruit of every kind He made in pairs, two and two: He draweth the night as a veil o'er the Day. Behold, verily in these things there are signs for those who consider!

PICKTHAL: And He it is Who spread out the earth and placed therein firm hills and flowing streams, and of all fruits He placed therein two spouses (male and female). He covereth the night with the day. Lo! herein verily are portents for people who take thought.

SHAKIR: And He it is Who spread the earth and made in it firm mountains and rivers, and of all fruits He has made in it two kinds; He makes the night cover the day; most surely there are signs in this for a people who reflect.

013.004

YUSUFALI: And in the earth are tracts (diverse though) neighbouring, and gardens of vines and fields sown with corn, and palm trees - growing out of single roots or otherwise: watered with the same water, yet some of them We make more excellent than others to eat. Behold, verily in these things there are signs for those who understand!

PICKTHAL: And in the Earth are neighbouring tracts, vineyards and ploughed lands, and date-palms, like and unlike, which are watered with one water. And we have made some of them to excel others in fruit. Lo! herein verily are portents for people who have sense.

SHAKIR: And in the earth there are tracts side by side and gardens of grapes and corn and palm trees having one root and (others) having distinct roots-- they are watered with one water, and We make some of them excel others in fruit; most surely there are signs in this for a people who understand.

040.007

YUSUFALI: Those who sustain the Throne (of Allah) and those around it Sing Glory and Praise to their Lord; believe in Him; and implore Forgiveness for those who believe: "Our Lord! Thy Reach is over all things, in Mercy and Knowledge. Forgive, then, those who turn in Repentance, and follow Thy Path; and preserve them from the Penalty of the Blazing Fire!

PICKTHAL: Those who bear the Throne, and all who are round about it, hymn the praises of their Lord and believe in Him and ask forgiveness for those who believe (saying): Our Lord! Thou comprehendest all things in mercy and knowledge, therefor forgive those who repent and follow Thy way. Ward off from them the punishment of hell.

SHAKIR: Those who bear the power and those around Him celebrate the praise of their Lord and believe in Him and ask protection for those who believe: Our Lord! Thou embracest all things in mercy and knowledge, therefore grant protection to those who turn (to Thee) and follow Thy way, and save them from the punishment of the hell:

My comments,

The heavens are raised high without any pillars that you could see, which means there are pillars that you cannot see eg angels like the ones who carry the mighty throne. The problem here is that the heavens are not visible either ie we cannot see any heavens the quran is talking about as they are fully defined in the quranic text. So no wonder that imaginary heavens have imaginary pillars or vice versa.

[basic_force]

Still more points:

007.054
YUSUFALI: Your Guardian-Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six days, and is firmly established on the throne (of authority): He draweth the night as a veil o'er the day, each seeking the other in rapid succession: He created the sun, the moon, and the stars, (all) governed by laws under His command. Is it not His to create and to govern? Blessed be Allah, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the worlds!

PICKTHAL: Lo! your Lord is Allah Who created the heavens and the earth in six Days, then mounted He the Throne. He covereth the night with the day, which is in haste to follow it, and hath made the sun and the moon and the stars subservient by His command. His verily is all creation and commandment. Blessed be Allah, the Lord of the Worlds!

SHAKIR: Surely your Lord is Allah, Who created the heavens and the earth in six periods of time, and He is firm in power; He throws the veil of night over the day, which it pursues incessantly; and (He created) the sun and the moon and the stars, made subservient by His command; surely His is the creation and the command; blessed is Allah, the Lord of the worlds.

023.017

YUSUFALI: And We have made, above you, seven tracts; and We are never unmindful of (our) Creation.

PICKTHAL: And We have created above you seven paths, and We are never unmindful of creation.

SHAKIR: And certainly We made above you seven heavens; and never are We heedless of creation

My comments,

As already has been commented the heavens are not below us but above us. Remember I said that heavens are domes or canopies so one can se where the quran is leading us in cosmology. The truth is there are no such heavens as the quran suggests. By now it should be clear as to where of the quran got its scientific information about cosmology. Which other book before it describes the things in almost exactly the same way? You guessed it, the holy bible in the old testament, in its very first book called genesis. The only difference is that the bible is telling us about all this in the beginning as a story and the quran is doing the same in many different lectures. Thus repetition became inevitable fact.

One should be able to see how the quran lists things in one lecture then expand on the listed items in another lecture and thereafter in another lecture. If one remembers what one read in one place then it is easy to collect similar information about things from all over the quran eg wherever the quran talks about the heavens and the earth, it is talking about exactly the same thing.

025.059

YUSUFALI: He Who created the heavens and the earth and all that is between, in six days, and is firmly established on the Throne (of Authority): Allah Most Gracious: ask thou, then, about Him of any acquainted (with such things).

PICKTHAL: Who created the heavens and the earth and all that is between them in six Days, then He mounted the Throne. The Beneficent! Ask anyone informed concerning Him!

SHAKIR: Who created the heavens and the earth and what is between them in six periods, and He is firmly established on the throne of authority; the Beneficent Allah, so ask respecting it one aware.

025.061

YUSUFALI: Blessed is He Who made constellations in the skies, and placed therein a Lamp and a Moon giving light;

PICKTHAL: Blessed be He Who hath placed in the heaven mansions of the stars, and hath placed therein a great lamp and a moon giving light!

SHAKIR: Blessed is He Who made the constellations in the heavens and made therein a lamp and a shining moon.

My comments,

One can see in verses like this that as for the quran, the sun is the only light in the quranic universe and only for the day just as the moon is the only light for the night in the quranic universe.

026.187

YUSUFALI: "Now cause a piece of the sky to fall on us, if thou art truthful!"

PICKTHAL: Then make fragments of the heaven fall upon us, if thou art of the truthful.

SHAKIR: Therefore cause a portion of the heaven to come down upon us, if you are one of the truthful.

My comments,

The quran is telling us that these heavens it is talking about are made of some solid stuff like the earth.

042.005

YUSUFALI: The heavens are almost rent asunder from above them (by Him Glory): and the angels celebrate the Praises of their Lord, and pray for forgiveness for (all) beings on earth: Behold! Verily Allah is He, the Oft-Forgiving, Most Merciful.

PICKTHAL: Almost might the heavens above be rent asunder while the angels hymn the praise of their Lord and ask forgiveness for those on the earth. Lo! Allah, He is the Forgiver, the Merciful.

SHAKIR: The heavens may almost rend asunder from above them and the angels sing the praise of their Lord and ask forgiveness for those on earth; now surely Allah is the Forgiving, the Merciful.

021.032

YUSUFALI: And We have made the heavens as a canopy well guarded: yet do they turn away from the Signs which these things (point to)!

PICKTHAL: And we have made the sky a roof withheld (from them). Yet they turn away from its portents.

SHAKIR: And We have made the heaven a guarded canopy and (yet) they turn aside from its signs.

My comments,

Again and again the quran is making wrong assumption that the sky is the solid heaven beyond which only angels live and human cannot go. I have not talked about the hadith yet but one looks at the story of prophet’s ascension to heavens, it becomes very clear that the quran is talking about the same heavens as the hadith. Some people dismiss the hadith yet think the quran is different but that is not the case.

021.104

YUSUFALI: The Day that We roll up the heavens like a scroll rolled up for books (completed),- even as We produced the first creation, so shall We produce a new one: a promise We have undertaken: truly shall We fulfil it.

PICKTHAL: The Day when We shall roll up the heavens as a recorder rolleth up a written scroll. As We began the first creation, We shall repeat it. (It is) a promise (binding) upon Us. Lo! We are to perform it.

SHAKIR: On the day when We will roll up heaven like the rolling up of the scroll for writings, as We originated the first creation, (so) We shall reproduce it; a promise (binding on Us); surely We will bring it about.

015.014

YUSUFALI: Even if We opened out to them a gate from heaven, and they were to continue (all day) ascending therein,

PICKTHAL: And even if We opened unto them a gate of heaven and they kept mounting through it,

SHAKIR: And even if We open to them a gateway of heaven, so that they ascend into it all the while,

019.090

YUSUFALI: At it the skies are ready to burst, the earth to split asunder, and the mountains to fall down in utter ruin,

PICKTHAL: Whereby almost the heavens are torn, and the earth is split asunder and the mountains fall in ruins,

SHAKIR: The heavens may almost be rent thereat, and the earth cleave asunder, and the mountains fall down in pieces,

025.025

YUSUFALI: The Day the heaven shall be rent asunder with clouds, and angels shall be sent down, descending (in ranks),-

PICKTHAL: A day when the heaven with the clouds will be rent asunder and the angels will be sent down, a grand descent.

SHAKIR: And on the day when the heaven shall burst asunder with the clouds, and the angels shall be sent down descending (in ranks).

017.092

YUSUFALI: "Or thou cause the sky to fall in pieces, as thou sayest (will happen), against us; or thou bring Allah and the angels before (us) face to face:

PICKTHAL: Or thou cause the heaven to fall upon us piecemeal, as thou hast pretended, or bring Allah and the angels as a warrant;

SHAKIR: Or you should cause the heaven to come down upon us in pieces as you think, or bring Allah and the angels face to face (with us).

022.065

YUSUFALI: Seest thou not that Allah has made subject to you (men) all that is on the earth, and the ships that sail through the sea by His Command? He withholds the sky (rain) from failing on the earth except by His leave: for Allah is Most Kind and Most Merciful to man.

PICKTHAL: Hast thou not seen how Allah hath made all that is in the earth subservient unto you? And the ship runneth upon the sea by His command, and He holdeth back the heaven from falling on the earth unless by His leave. Lo! Allah is, for mankind, Full of Pity, Merciful.

SHAKIR: Do you not see that Allah has made subservient to you whatsoever is in the earth and the ships running in the sea by His command? And He withholds the heaven from falling on the earth except with His permission; most surely Allah is Compassionate, Merciful to men.

My comments,

All these like verses are clear all by themselves as to what the author of the quran thinks about the sky.

[basic_force]

Rest of the points:

026.187

YUSUFALI: "Now cause a piece of the sky to fall on us, if thou art truthful!"

PICKTHAL: Then make fragments of the heaven fall upon us, if thou art of the truthful.

SHAKIR: Therefore cause a portion of the heaven to come down upon us, if you are one of the truthful.

034.009

YUSUFALI: See they not what is before them and behind them, of the sky and the earth? If We wished, We could cause the earth to swallow them up, or cause a piece of the sky to fall upon them. Verily in this is a Sign for every devotee that turns to Allah (in repentance).

PICKTHAL: Have they not observed what is before them and what is behind them of the sky and the earth? If We will, We can make the earth swallow them, or cause obliteration from the sky to fall on them. Lo! herein surely is a portent for every slave who turneth (to Allah) repentant.

SHAKIR: Do they not then consider what is before them and what is behind them of the heaven and the earth? If We please We will make them disappear in the land or bring down upon them a portion from the heaven; most surely there is a sign in this for every servant turning (to Allah).

035.041

YUSUFALI: It is Allah Who sustains the heavens and the earth, lest they cease (to function): and if they should fail, there is none - not one - can sustain them thereafter: Verily He is Most Forbearing, Oft-Forgiving.

PICKTHAL: Lo! Allah graspeth the heavens and the earth that they deviate not, and if they were to deviate there is not one that could grasp them after Him. Lo! He is ever Clement, Forgiving.

SHAKIR: Surely Allah upholds the heavens and the earth lest they come to naught; and if they should come to naught, there Is none who can uphold them after Him; surely He is the Forbearing, the Forgiving.

052.044

YUSUFALI: Were they to see a piece of the sky falling (on them), they would (only) say: "Clouds gathered in heaps!"

PICKTHAL: And if they were to see a fragment of the heaven falling, they would say: A heap of clouds.

SHAKIR: And if they should see a portion of the heaven coming down, they would say: Piled up clouds.

051.007

YUSUFALI: By the Sky with (its) numerous Paths,

PICKTHAL: By the heaven full of paths,

SHAKIR: I swear by the heaven full of ways.

051.047

YUSUFALI: With power and skill did We construct the Firmament: for it is We Who create the vastness of pace.

PICKTHAL: We have built the heaven with might, and We it is Who make the vast extent (thereof).

SHAKIR: And the heaven, We raised it high with power, and most surely We are the makers of things ample.

051.048

YUSUFALI: And We have spread out the (spacious) earth: How excellently We do spread out!

PICKTHAL: And the earth have We laid out, how gracious is the Spreader (thereof)!

SHAKIR: And the earth, We have made it a wide extent; how well have We then spread (it) out.

My comments,

There are quite a few verses that tell us about pieces of heavens falling down on the earth thus clearly showing that the heavens are solid in their structure that is capable of breaking into pieces. So the interpretations of the quran by people as take a verse and start explaining phenomenon as observed by scientific methods are completely wrong. So the question is, where are these heavens that are dome like above the earth which can fall down upon us if we do not believe in Allah? The answer is clear that the sky is mistaken for a solid heaven. Not only that but it is thought of as a canopy.

030.018

YUSUFALI: Yea, to Him be praise, in the heavens and on earth; and in the late afternoon and when the day begins to decline.

PICKTHAL: Unto Him be praise in the heavens and the earth! - and at the sun's decline and in the noonday.

SHAKIR: And to Him belongs praise in the heavens and the earth, and at nightfall and when you are at midday

My comments,

Here it is Allah speaking as he sees things happening himself. He observes the phenomenon that day is declining. Does it make sense? The sense here is clear that the sun is the only light for the heavens and the earth. If the phenomenon is said to be from human point of view from here on the earth then the quranic text itself is wrong because it is not making this clear.

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closed mindedness is a problem, open mindedness is the solution.

[Munni]

Yes the article is indeed interesting, but I would suggest the author (mughal as he calls himself) to go back and read the Qur'an in full this time. Because he has no idea what he is saying. Every point made can be refuted, and his logic, is well...illogical. I dont believe the author has read the Qur'an because if he did, he would not have said 80% of what he did.

[Dhulfiqar]

The article is far too long to read properly, I’ve read bits and the some of the points he has made have already been refuted…

I doubt he’s a Bengali Muslim as he claims, I use to visit the Bangladesh.com forums and all these people posting articles like these are not Muslims. It’s Hindus and Christians.

I’ve spoke to a few on msn and they don’t even know the basics. They just read a few translations and misinterpret the verses and they think they’re experts on Islam.

[basic_force]

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Munni: *
Yes the article is indeed interesting, but I would suggest the author (mughal as he calls himself) to go back and read the Qur'an in full this time. Because he has no idea what he is saying. Every point made can be refuted, and his logic, is well...illogical. I dont believe the author has read the Qur'an because if he did, he would not have said 80% of what he did.
[/QUOTE]

He actually has said 5 times more than what I have copied here. So I have copied only 20% of what he did.

He may have read the quran less than you did, but you appear to be less familiar to science.

[basic_force]

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Dhulfiqar: *
The article is far too long to read properly, I’ve read bits and the some of the points he has made have already been refuted…

I doubt he’s a Bengali Muslim as he claims, I use to visit the Bangladesh.com forums and all these people posting articles like these are not Muslims. It’s Hindus and Christians.

I’ve spoke to a few on msn and they don’t even know the basics. They just read a few translations and misinterpret the verses and they think they’re experts on Islam.
[/QUOTE]

One thing you should accept that bangladesh discussion forum is more liberal than to this forum. And majority of members appear to be less orthodox than to here's.

[Munni]

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by basic_force: *

He actually has said 5 times more than what I have copied here. So I have copied only 20% of what he did.

He may have read the quran less than you did, but you appear to be less familiar to science.
[/QUOTE]

Either way, 20% or 80%, you chose what you felt were meaty arguments from this persons article. I have read them, and just as the bengali author is giving his opinion on the interpretation, so am I giving mine on his. He hasnt read the Qur'an, and its plainly obvious to anyone who has. Theres nothing more to say really.

I didnt know I had to be a scientist to find faults in arguments. Anyone can apply the scientific method, not just a scientist.

[armughal]

most of the arguments he have put forward r very weak and can easily be answered....

e.g. when he says that Quran says the skies r above the earth, how can it mean that the sky is assumed to be semi-spherical????
space is just a 'relative' thing....
if the origin is taken as the center of the earth, then in any polar coordinate, the sky remains above the earth....
and for most cases with circular dimensions we use the polar and not the cartesian coordinates, even when dealing with them scientfically....

the sun rises from the east, as all humans see it....
did the Quran ever mention that the earth is stationary????
did it ever mention angels move the sun around the earth????
its just the writer who is assuming such things....
Quran 18:86 mentions that zul-Qarnain saw the sun setting in a muddy spring....
does Quran really believe that sun sets in a muddy spring????
no.... its just zul-Qarnayn's view mentioned here....

its always best to deal with such debates on a 'face-to-face' basis cuz u can answer all the questions and more importantly clear many doubts of the questioner....

[basic_force]

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by armughal: *
most of the arguments he have put forward r very weak and can easily be answered....

e.g. when he says that Quran says the skies r above the earth, how can it mean that the sky is assumed to be semi-spherical????
space is just a 'relative' thing....
if the origin is taken as the center of the earth, then in any polar coordinate, the sky remains above the earth....
and for most cases with circular dimensions we use the polar and not the cartesian coordinates, even when dealing with them scientfically....

the sun rises from the east, as all humans see it....
did the Quran ever mention that the earth is stationary????
did it ever mention angels move the sun around the earth????
its just the writer who is assuming such things....
Quran 18:86 mentions that zul-Qarnain saw the sun setting in a muddy spring....
does Quran really believe that sun sets in a muddy spring????
no.... its just zul-Qarnayn's view mentioned here....

its always best to deal with such debates on a 'face-to-face' basis cuz u can answer all the questions and more importantly clear many doubts of the questioner....
[/QUOTE]

Very interestingly you started your post with following words...

"most of the arguments he have put forward r very weak and can easily be answered...."

According to you "most" of his arguments are weak. It means that at least "some" arguments are strong in your eyes. You should share them with us also. I also think that it is wrong to put so many blames in only one post. Such debates require "face to face" or at least "One by one point wise" discussion. As far as my personal views on these points are concerned, I do not yet have done any focus analysis on most of the points so far. So I am not going to defend all the points here. However some points are in fact valid. Such as "Heavens are suspended over earth without pillers" etc. For other points we need separate thread.