Farid said
There are elements in media and in public they always up-held the military leadership even at the cost of whole nation. What Musharraf is doing, some people on this forum blindly accepting his decisions. By the time impact of those decisions would be felt, he would have already gone under tons of earth like his predecessors. And there would be another general justifying his actions condemning past and blowing the tune of prosperity. This untruthful state of affairs would up-hold by media and you have already seen some ‘Temporary Chamchaas’ singing the same tune in this forum.
From the above link :- "The war was militarily inconclusive; each side held prisoners and some territory belonging to the other. Losses were relatively heavy–on the Pakistani side, twenty aircraft, 200 tanks, and 3,800 troops. Pakistan’s army had been able to withstand Indian pressure, but a continuation of the fighting would only have led to further losses and ultimate defeat for Pakistan. Most Pakistanis, schooled in the belief of their own martial prowess, refused to accept the possibility of their country’s military defeat by “Hindu India” and were, instead, quick to blame their failure to attain their military aims on what they considered to be the ineptitude of Ayub Khan and his government. "
Perhaps I am locked in the time zone of 1965. I already shown my apprehensions in my previous post regarding so called ‘jubilant victories’ by Pakistanis during 1965 war. The ‘glory’is still echoing even on this website http://www.geocities.com/pakistanarmy_pk/1965war.html
If what you are saying is correct, am I not correct to say that military rulers have always being telling lies to common people of Pakistan? Why in the first place the proxy wars were started? Which general(s) have so far been held responsible for such stupidity? Why some Pakis are bent on accepting such sobs as rulers for Pakistan? Are they linked with army or paid for doing such promotional propaganda? What is the justification of maintaining this huge army? Why smaller provinces are penalized to feed uncompetitive, weak, and coward army? Can you or any one answer my questions?
Sincerely,
FARID
[This message has been edited by Farid (edited April 22, 2002).]
As the Klingons say, that was a glorious day for battle, and no matter what sadas and you hindustanis say about India's poor communication system, you got a whoopin. Sadas, your forces never entered Lahore, so how did your beloved army have glorious moments there? If you guys say that although we successfully repulsed this attack, but we would not have carried on had the ceasefire not been announced, well thats just another story... From this story emerge heroes like Aziz Bhatti Shaheed.
Rvikz, Pakistan was being aided by China in this war, so an unofficial defence pact kinda existed. India was assisted by the Soviets. Although we had defence pacts with the US, they backed out when this war broke out.
India’s victory may not have been nearly as glorious as portrayed by our media then, but it was a victory nonetheless. We launched an attack on Lahore to relieve the pressure in Kashmir. It worked. We got Haji Peer and Tithwal, the strategic points.
haha! read again, even ur indian buddies are saying you lost territory in Kashmir cuz of gibraltar!!! Victory? did you even come close to lahore? hehehe must i remind you the gymkhana breakfast?
Ayub was anxious for a ceasefire? Last time I checked your pm got a heart attack from joy when it was announced? what a tragic death?
Go to this site. You would find many pictures showing Indian army retreat. Prove if these pictures are false. As I already said earlier, why one should believe in your story by providing just one picture. Even this picture is taken as correct, a small advancement by army which was six time larger than Pakistan is a ‘shame’. I would say this is no more than Indian propaganda just to misguide Indian public or Indian public is reluctant to accept Indian army retreat or defeat in 1965 war.
Spock,
I agree with you. Had this war continued till its logical conclusion, what you are saying has become purely subjective. There is no doubt about the loyalty and sincerity of lives which were sacrificed for the country but people who controlled the war machinery were not sincere. The loss of precious lives and resources went waste. Pakistan achieved nothing by declaring ceasefire, giving Indian a chance to say they won or had the war continued, India would have been the winner. (khaya peya kush nahi, glass torha baraa aanay). This argument is very strong and you just can not prove otherwise because of the military ruler’s stupidity. If resources were consumed in 17 days, then these proxy wars should not have been started at the first place. This stupidity cost Pakistan heavily in 1971, when Quaid’s Pakistan disappeared from the earth map. Accept the truth.
Farid, you are saying, 'if' the way had gone on... It did not go on, and so as you put it, Pakistan won...
What do you mean by this way being totally unnecessary? They attacked us and we had to defend our primate city.
I dont know why you have this hatred for miilitary rulers, but everyone here in Pakistan thinks that Ayub handled that war situation pretty well, but the sad thing is, it took them about 5 to 10 years to realize that. It was however, people like Aziz Bhatti Shaheed who are to be sulated for their gallant efforts.
All Im saying is, we won this war, and we really proved something by doing so.
I hate dictatorship because; it is the route cause of all ills in Pakistan. Person in Power can not be challenged. Out come of his action would be visible in future while he would rest in peace under tons of earth. Dictatorship is responsible for converting winning 1965 war in to defeat and break up of the country in 1971. Since dictators were never punished what they have done to Pakistan, I hate not because of personal reasons but because of the worst form of ruling or ruining the country.
Shame on the hijras taking on a nation and armed forces they outnumbered dozens to one and the Pak army still sent them back fleeing dropping their weapons and equipment.
Your "Higrha Theory" also applies to Paki army in 1971 and perhaps now. The way Pakis are reacting or cool in response to Indian kicking out Paki HC from India. "Pehlay apnay greban main jhank kar dekho"
Every jack knows the Indian army had to retreat in 1965... THEIR OPERATION WAS TO GET INTO LAHORE, CAPTURE THE CITY, AND HAVE A GRAND BREAKFAST AT GYMKHANA...
Salute to Nishan-e-Haider Major Aziz Bhatti Shaheed, a true hero of Pakistan and Islam.
No stupid geocities link is needed to prove that...
Salute PARAMVEER CHAKRA SHAHEED ABDUL HAMID, Who showed us the way to Break the PATTON TANKS. Even Paki govt recognizes this and after he showed us the way Indians destroyed so many tanks that they had to create a city to accomodate it. The City is called PATTON NAGAR.
[quote]
Originally posted by Asif_k:
**Salute PARAMVEER CHAKRA SHAHEED ABDUL HAMID, Who showed us the way to Break the PATTON TANKS. Even Paki govt recognizes this and after he showed us the way Indians destroyed so many tanks that they had to create a city to accomodate it. The City is called PATTON NAGAR.
**
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Asif;
First try to fly a plane properly and to put landmines without blowing yourself up into smitherines, then we'll talk.
Also, when the radical hindus come to burn your corspe alive as they did in Gujarat, then let us know how you feel about your great Bharat.
Tuj jaisay musalman are nothing less than hindu slaves. Bharat for hindus and as much as your Salman Khans and Sharukh Khans steal the Bollywood limelight, remember that you are and always will be a minority outcast in an increasingly hindu society.