Re: an extremist happy about California fires, touting it as a "punishment from Allah
So when people of Ahad, and Nuh witnessed disasters, we accept them as calamities while reading the Quran, but whenever something happens in contemporary times, its not God's doing?
Right.
Who says its not God doing it? The question is "reason".
Re: an extremist happy about California fires, touting it as a "punishment from Allah
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Because perhaps it wasn't a punishment...and thinking it was is a slander of the dead on our part.
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yeaa....may be it wasn't a punishment. Sorry for calling a wild raging fire that burnt down almost an entire state, a punishment. It was probably a bed of roses that Allah sent down.
Because it's arbitrary.....
I would disagree, because everything happens with the Will of Allah, and everything's tied to Qada wa Qadr, so its not really arbitrary.
And since everything happens with the Will of Allah, and because Allah says in the Quran:
“And We sent not the signs except to warn” [al-Israa’ 17:59], and he also said
“And whatever of misfortune befalls you, it is because of what your hands have earned. And He pardons much” [al-Shoora 42:30], and
“Whatever of good reaches you, is from Allaah, but whatever of evil befalls you, is from yourself” [al-Nisaa’ 4:79]
So you see, its not really about having a "priori knowledge of what God is 'thinking'"...because Allah has already described his Sunnah in the Quran.
Re: an extremist happy about California fires, touting it as a "punishment from Allah
What would these people say about the Hajj fire some 10 years back in which more 1000 people were burnt alive!
Re: an extremist happy about California fires, touting it as a "punishment from Allah
Worry about your own deeds and concentrate on doing good in your life...and no doubt allah is witness to all things and allah knows better for everything that happens. Try listening to surah al-kahf for better understanding
Re: an extremist happy about California fires, touting it as a "punishment from Allah
It is obvious that Allah loves and blesses the United States.
Re: an extremist happy about California fires, touting it as a "punishment from Allah
Yes indeed, God Has Loved and Blessed the US as He once Loved and Blessed the British, Mongols (Qings, Mughals, Ottomans, Huns, Tatars, etc.), Spaniards, Umayyads, Romans, Greeks, Persians and Egyptians.
Re: an extremist happy about California fires, touting it as a "punishment from Allah
yeaa....may be it wasn't a punishment. Sorry for calling a wild raging fire that burnt down almost an entire state, a punishment. It was probably a bed of roses that Allah sent down.
I would disagree, because everything happens with the Will of Allah, and everything's tied to Qada wa Qadr, so its not really arbitrary.
And since everything happens with the Will of Allah, and because Allah says in the Quran:
“And We sent not the signs except to warn” [al-Israa’ 17:59], and he also said
“And whatever of misfortune befalls you, it is because of what your hands have earned. And He pardons much” [al-Shoora 42:30], and
“Whatever of good reaches you, is from Allaah, but whatever of evil befalls you, is from yourself” [al-Nisaa’ 4:79]
So you see, its not really about having a "priori knowledge of what God is 'thinking'"...because Allah has already described his Sunnah in the Quran.
Peace Sharaabi
My stance is between yours and bro. picoicos ...
It is totally true that Allah (SWT) does not do arbitary. That all things are for a reason. However, at the same time it is not for us to say what that reason is.
Rather the reconciliation is thus:
A natural disaster occurs:
It is wrong to say that the dead were given punishment, however, what can be said is this:
That the people who die in this world in a state of injustice they will receive their justice in the Hereafter.
Those who died in this world through punishment their punishment in the hereafter will be reduced.
For those who live: The warning is for them! Not the ones who die. We who survive the natrual disasters should realise that Allah (SWT) can end us any time and we should mend our ways because if we are ended in this world while we are in a state of evil, then we will be raised amongst those who are evil.
And those of the misfortunes, yes it is our own doing, but this is applicable with a context, it is not without context for example the young child who dies in a volcano this is not the context for that child.
Three elements cover suffering and the reason for it:
1) As warning or test
2) To reduce the punishment or as a method for salvation
3) Because we walk into dangerous areas by our own bad decisions
That child who dies falls into category 2. All survivors should view disasters and place themselves in category 1. All people who cause misfortune directly are in category 3.
Lastly ... if we say that the people DID die out of punishment or DID NOT die out of punishment then we are presuming we know the Will of Allah (SWT) ... that is not right according to our aqeedah.
Re: an extremist happy about California fires, touting it as a "punishment from Allah
It is obvious that Allah loves and blesses the United States.
Peace Seminole
The fact US are leading the world is proof that the world is in a poor moral state.
Re: an extremist happy about California fires, touting it as a "punishment from Allah
Perhaps. It is also proof of the failure of other systems such as the Islamic state.
Re: an extremist happy about California fires, touting it as a "punishment from Allah
^ If any system has failed its people...it has has been the Capitalist System. One only needs to look around oneself to know how chaotic it has been for this planet.
While it has successfuly and widely implemented itself in this world...its effects and harms are of equal proportion. From the melting of the poles to the sad state Africa is in....its all thanks to the Capitalist Sytem.
bravo...a wonderful world are you passing to your children!
Re: an extremist happy about California fires, touting it as a "punishment from Allah
^I'd say a better barometer of a system that failed is one that actually *failed *and is nothing more than part of history, not the system that is allowing you the money, time and technology to type senseless posts on the world wide web.
Sof if "my" system is passing off a less than wonderful world, what is your system passing along?
Re: an extremist happy about California fires, touting it as a "punishment from Allah
^I'd say a better barometer of a system that failed is one that actually *failed *and is nothing more than part of history, not the system that is allowing you the money, time and technology to type senseless posts on the world wide web.
Sof if "my" system is passing off a less than wonderful world, what is your system passing along?
Peace Seminole
People get what they want. The people want to be capitalistic and materialistic and that is what they get. It is the system that reflects feeding our own egos.
The reason why capitalism is thriving is because the people who are at the top are ensuring they stay there by exploitation, threats and and deceit. Those who follow will get some crumbs but there are a lot of people who are in a bad way.
This state of unfairness has never occurred with an Islamic state and the moment it started the Islamic state was abolished. This is because it is viewed that the Islamic state is a gift as is the Khaliph. If the people don't behave then it is taken away from them.
It is not proof that Islam has failed that it is no longer here. It is proof that we don't deserve it that is why it is not here.
Re: an extremist happy about California fires, touting it as a "punishment from Allah
^ Just because something stopped working doesn't necessarily mean it has failed, because nothing really goes on forever regardless of how good and perfect it is...and this is the law of nature. So there's your flawed argument of the day!
I hope you're really proud of all this money, time and technology that "your" system has provided you with, after plundering and killing millions around the world, after destroying rain forests and countless rivers. After pushing countless self-sufficient tribes and villages into poverty and killing.....its a never ending list.
Re: an extremist happy about California fires, touting it as a "punishment from Allah
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Re: an extremist happy about California fires, touting it as a "punishment from Allah
^ Just because something stopped working doesn't necessarily mean it has failed, because nothing really goes on forever regardless of how good and perfect it is...and this is the law of nature. So there's your flawed argument of the day!
You don't like the word "failed"? How about ineffectual, unsuccessfull or ill-fated? If you want to compare to laws of nature - than it's dead. Whatever. It existed, it wasn't perfect and now it's gone. I'm not saying capitalism is the perfect system. But then I don't see the world as black or white - islam or capitalism.
[quote]
I hope you're really proud of all this money, time and technology that "your" system has provided you with, after plundering and killing millions around the world, after destroying rain forests and countless rivers. After pushing countless self-sufficient tribes and villages into poverty and killing.....its a never ending list.
[/quote]
This isn't "my system". I'm not responsible for destroying rain forestes any more than you are for the slaughter of Armenians. I don't think the perfect system currently exists or ever did. Evidently we are both using this system to type these grand ideas.
Re: an extremist happy about California fires, touting it as a "punishment from Allah
You don't like the word "failed"? How about ineffectual, unsuccessfull or ill-fated? If you want to compare to laws of nature - than it's dead. Whatever. It existed, it wasn't perfect and now it's gone. I'm not saying capitalism is the perfect system. But then I don't see the world as black or white - islam or capitalism.
This isn't "my system". I'm not responsible for destroying rain forestes any more than you are for the slaughter of Armenians. I don't think the perfect system currently exists or ever did. Evidently we are both using this system to type these grand ideas.
Peace Seminole
By using the argument of technology one cannot justify the loss of ethics!
People have always wanted to progress, but to what end? What we see today is the progress of humanity by retarding it in other areas, the more critical areas. Islam is about optimising justice not removing it. Again it should be stressed that the ill-fatedness of Shari'ah was prophesised, why? ... because the Muslims would become materialistic.
It is as much a warning to us as a reason to change. This life has ups and downs and in the Qur'an, Allah (SWT) states that He gives victory to whom He Wills. It is not therefore a measure of right to see how one ideology dominates over another. Rather it demonstrates the condition of people.
If we mend our ways then Allah (SWT) will return to us the right of Islam to rule, but if we stay as we are then who are we to deserve such a good system? We might as well remain in this capitalistic condition!
The fact that Islamic state does not exist has no bearing on the Power of Allah (SWT) as He caused it to come together in the first place and He caused it to end.
Re: an extremist happy about California fires, touting it as a "punishment from Allah
^ If any system has failed its people...it has has been the Capitalist System. One only needs to look around oneself to know how chaotic it has been for this planet.
While it has successfuly and widely implemented itself in this world...its effects and harms are of equal proportion. From the melting of the poles to the sad state Africa is in....its all thanks to the Capitalist Sytem.
bravo...a wonderful world are you passing to your children!
all those setbacks are not outcomes of capitalism. They are happening because of huge population. And the internet which we all are using to post in this forum, is a by-product of capitalism (to be even more precise - internet is a by-product of US military spending)
Re: an extremist happy about California fires, touting it as a "punishment from Allah
Islam is about optimising justice not removing it. Again it should be stressed that the ill-fatedness of Shari'ah was prophesised, why? ... because the Muslims would become materialistic.
Historians generally agree that the fall of the Ottoman state was due to the failure of its economic structure and social structure that couldn't adapt to free market capitalism. Ottoman society was based on war and couldn't handle the new world order. Bascially, the inability of followers and leaders to adapt, change, and evolve - the same issues we have today and the reason for the continual decline of Muslim societies. You can say it was the materialism of the rest of the world that doomed Muslim dominance, but not the materialism of Muslims. A return to a stricter Islamic fundamentalism isn't going to solve any of that.
Re: an extremist happy about California fires, touting it as a "punishment from Allah
all those setbacks are not outcomes of capitalism. They are happening because of huge population.
I beg to differ. The human population has always been increasing at this rate. Never before in the history of the world, have we faced such crisis as we are doing now.
And the internet which we all are using to post in this forum, is a by-product of capitalism (to be even more precise - internet is a by-product of US military spending)
And your point is? These petty gains look minimal when we look at what we've lost.
Re: an extremist happy about California fires, touting it as a "punishment from Allah
I beg to differ. The human population has always been increasing at this rate. Never before in the history of the world, have we faced such crisis as we are doing now.
It never increased to this level. It is more than 6 billion now. Other than capitalism what other form you have?..A country like india, with a democratic government tried socialism. that is why you see so many poor people in india. China(with a commie government) with capitalism has made wonders.