Amir Muwiya's conversion to Islam

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Amir Muwiya’s conversion to Islam

Who am i to forgive her ?
Now If a person performs Zina today and he is forgiven for it, it doesnt mean he didnt perform Zina and the Offspring from that Zina earlier is halal.

Offspring from that Zina is still not legitimate.
Lets go back to what you wrote if she kept her promises good for her. I am still no one to forgive her, and that still doesnt make her kids legitimate that is if they were born from zina.

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Re: Amir Muwiya's conversion to Islam

edited This character assassination is a propaganda started later.

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Re: Amir Muwiya's conversion to Islam

aqeel, we are someone to judge her, but we are not someone to forgive her? Does not sound like a balanced logic bro.

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Re: Amir Muwiya's conversion to Islam

Who am i to forgive her for Chewing Hazrat hamza a.s Lever ? But that doesnt mean it didnt happen !

Rite bro ?

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Re: Amir Muwiya’s conversion to Islam

You can find this about Ziyad becoz Mu’awiya Admited it Publicly. Now on the other hand if he did write about mu’wiya he wudnt be one best know Sunni Authors wud he ?

Mohibuddeen al-Tabari in Riyadh ul Nadhira, Volume 3 page 117 Chapter 116 narrates this tradition from 'Abu Bakr:

**Rasulullah (s) said, “Love of Ali, Fatima, Hasan and Hussain is a sign of one being legitimate, hatred of them is the sign of one being illegitimate”. **

edited ?

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Re: Amir Muwiya’s conversion to Islam

:hmmm: Ibn e Katheer could write about Ziad, because Muawiya admitted it publically edited :hoonh:

emotional card. Muawiya’s behavior with Hasnain and their acceptance of gifts from him even after the death of Hazrat Ali (RA) is proved from historical books.

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Re: Amir Muwiya’s conversion to Islam

Okay lets put all this on side and let me ask you this… On the light of above Hadith… Is Yazid Illegitimate ?

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Re: Amir Muwiya's conversion to Islam

I know that one who created me and you is Sattar, then why are we indulging in this useless discussion about different definitions / criteria of being legitimate. If you expect me to curse anyone, I'm sorry I can't fulfill your wish.

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Re: Amir Muwiya's conversion to Islam

Bro u dont have to curse anyone, i just wanted to see if its the authors u have problem with or ahadeeth, but this reply just confirms that its you. You have hard time digesting some facts.

I guess in such case i can create a 100 pages thread with reference in each post but u will deny all of em. So i will stop posting references at this point.

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Re: Amir Muwiya's conversion to Islam

I don't have any problem in accepting facts if they are from unbiased sources provided by an unbiased person. I don't accept Ahadees which are against basic teachings of Quran and are fabricated for twisting facts. When it comes to facts, I rely more on historical records than fabricated ahadees.

Muawiya (RA) did some political mistakes, so did the other Khulafa, because they were human beings. I don't follow the religion which makes humans supernatural.

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Re: Amir Muwiya’s conversion to Islam

Well then u shdnt have had problem with Ibn Abi al Hadeed.… U probably dunno this but You do actually want reference from someone biased…Someone who wud favor Mu’awiya

Izz al-Din ibn Hibatullah ibn Abi l-Hadid - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

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Re: Amir Muwiya's conversion to Islam

Peace aqeel123

I do agree to the fact that Ahadees were fabricated and for this I don't need any references. Having said this, I would say that scholars who highlighted difference between sahabas (centuries after their deaths) based on their personal biases are the enemies of Islam.

Last but not the least, on the day of judgement, I won't be inquired about these questions that whether a person was legitimate child of his parents.

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Re: Amir Muwiya's conversion to Islam

Believing that it was all love and gifts between Sahaba's is like a pigeon who closes his eyes when he sees a cat to believe Cat isnt here.

There were numerous Muslims killed in Jamal, Siffin, Nahrwaan. Either innocent Muslims died one one side or other. Someone has to Answer for those innocent Muslims killed and praising someone who caused these very deaths you will be held responsible for supporting Zalim and Zulm. Islam isnt only doing excersising five times a day it also teaches us Amar bil Maroof and Nahi Anil Munkar.

Well then u wudnt be inquired about what i think is a better question and if i have any reference for that or not.

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Re: Amir Muwiya's conversion to Islam

I asked you for sources when you asked a question, which was not the topic of the thread. Only God knows who was Zalim and who was Mazloom and I believe that my Allah won't held me responsible for those events which happened centuries before me and when there are equal and opposite accounts available for Zalim & Mazloom versions.

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Re: Amir Muwiya's conversion to Islam

Okay, Peace Bro !

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Muawiya Sahab

Muawiya was a good politician, and sleek emperor.

The thread was de-railed and closed.

Thankyou Bao Bihari, I just read the book of Taqi Usmani Sahab

Actually it was not a book but a compilation of answers of various letters, questions and arguments of Malik sahab and moudodi sahab and Taqi sahab etc.

So, in short, we look at life story of Mr Muawiya then its quite simple.

-He was from a ruling class.
-He came into threshold of Islam when there was no way out.
-His mother’s name was Hinda ( We all know about cruel history, but anyone knows about her activities after change in life style ? )
-His elevation to the post of Governor of Syria
-His fight , talk , fight, battles, arguments, with Hazrat Ali :razi:
-His written Agreement with Hazrat Hasan :razi:
-His backtrack from agreement and start of Monarchy.

The End

I am a Sunni by default. Why it is considered compulsary for sunni folks to use sugar coated term and honarary connotation like Alaa hazrat & :razi: for every person who was some way or the other was in that bleak picture ??

Shia folks :

Finding a difference in a mistake and crime is not as difficult as making nuclear reactor.
Comparing Hazrat Umar :razi: and Mr. Muwiya is like comparing orange with peach. Later established monarchy and former strictly forbade it even though he had the same power. See the difference ?

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Re: Muawiya Sahab

salam alaikum

sunnis have a basis from where we can take daleel (basis for a belief), that is Quran and Sunnah.

in very frank language - the disbelievers have no basis and they make it up as they go along

to understand this concept and learn abit about the situation, in sufi-esque way: http://www.paklinks.com/gs/video-gallery/534450-bayan-about-companions-radiallahu-anhum.html

the daleel for sugar coating/not taking sides/not holding grudge is from DEEN ISLAM
theres many many requirements of witholding your tongue when it comes to the Companions RA, im sure you already know most

right now i’ll share one with you:
And fear the Fitnah (affliction and trial) which affects not in particular (only) those of you who do wrong (but it may afflict all the good and the bad people), and know that Allah is Severe in punishment. 8:25

the fitnah was promised
the fitnah is to be feared
we must attempt to overcome the fitnah
the fitnah effects good people

please do not change the subject as theres many more daleels lets discuss them. im sure other brothers will add many.
but the list of grievances you have added the last one is suspect, imo

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Re: Muawiya Sahab

Sunnis just do not do badgumani on Hadrat Ami Muawiya:razi: on the basis of historians narrated events which can not be verified like Ahadith.

To me it is better that we keep quite on these matters, i hope that will not effect my eman that i am not commenting on some one as i dont have enough evidence, furthermore please do not use (it is a general statement)harsh words against some one who is respected among large group of muslims.

I hope that if GS policies can give warning on joking about zardaris death then they will make sure that no one disrespect any sahabi :razi:

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Re: Muawiya Sahab

keeping quiet on companions is an islamic principle but in my opinion is not required for Muawiya RA. what is commonly said about Muawiya RA is that whoever speaks ill of him seeks a way to speak ill about the sahaba. similar but not the same

he is defended by islam

Islam confirms the correct/superior position of Ali RA and the defence of Muawiya RA. this is easy for muslims influenced by islam to reconcile see above Quran ayat for a start but theres much more including specifics, however other religions and thought processes may find it hard to understand. for example zarostarians believe in principles which disallow the reconciliation, like isma (infalliability), hereditory kingship, eternal prophethood, equality of good and evil for whhich they even believed in two gods. these are principles which can easily be recognised today.

remember history is also inline with islam, we can use history comfortably. BATIL joins many parts of differing history before making his case to present it as ‘hujjat’ without ever realising that history could NEVER be hujjat!

And fear the Fitnah (affliction and trial) which affects not in particular (only) those of you who do wrong (but it may afflict all the good and the bad people), and know that Allah is Severe in punishment. 8:25

batil argues that islam was always in fitnah! Quran unke pahle mein nahin hai

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Re: Muawiya Sahab

Add to the list the killing of a sahaba like Ammar b. Yasir . Muhammad b. Abu Bakr was too murdered by Muawiya's men, his body stuffed in a dead donkey and burnt. Imam al-Hasan the grandson of the Prophet wad poisoned on his orders. He instituted the cursing of ImamAli from the minbar. He had the Hajar b. `Adi and his companions executed (he had him buried alive) for refusing to curse sahabi like Ali. Made mockery of Shariah by declaring Ziyad bin Abih his real brother. Used to live like a king (was also told off by Hazrat Umar b Khattab).

Although the honor of the personalities of importance must be held and due reverence given, it does not mean that those that left haqq, worked against justice, and spread corruption be blindly respected let alone be source of guidance.