Re: Americans storm Iranian Consulate; 5 hostages being held
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Re: Americans storm Iranian Consulate; 5 hostages being held
well perhaps you can inform those of us that dont neccesarily hold the same opinions as you...?
Re: Americans storm Iranian Consulate; 5 hostages being held
are you saying that you are illinformed about Iran's hand in the sectarian strife in paksitan and Afghanistan?
if you are uninformed, then how can you really form an opinion rerading whether Iran would do something similar in Iraq.
Your opinion is based on incomplete information
PS: its not about holding same opinion, its about knowing facts
Re: Americans storm Iranian Consulate; 5 hostages being held
thats what i think also ,they are after muslims.
Re: Americans storm Iranian Consulate; 5 hostages being held
yeah…rite, thanks for the info. :halo:
Anyone here willing to answer a straight forward q without beating around the bush?
Re: Americans storm Iranian Consulate; 5 hostages being held
It seems like the Americans are trying to divert attention from their failures, and trying to blame Iran for the troubles in Iraq. The western powrs seem to be back to their old tricks of divide and rule.
Re: Americans storm Iranian Consulate; 5 hostages being held
Okay, lets just give you a summary. Iran supported sectarian strife in Afghanistan as well as in Pakistan. tehrik e jafaria and sipah e muhammad to shia terrorist outfits were financed and armed by Iran. just like teh sunni terrorists like sipah e sahaba wee finaced and supported by saudis
Iranian diplomats were found involved in it and paid the price. as far as Iranian sectarian involvement in afghanistan, google it and read about it. Iranian counsel general was even charged in the murder of former governer Fazle Haq.
Iran has been behind insurgencies in Pakistan, and continues to do it, read about their warm links with the baloch dissidents.
…so what makes you think they will not want to screw around in Iraq, they have already shown in 3 countries cases..that they do this stuff.
Re: Americans storm Iranian Consulate; 5 hostages being held
Unlike "normal" confrontations, we have a conflict here in which both sides are headed by dumb leaders (W and Ahmedinejad). W with his uneducated hubris has sunk US credibility and fortunes; Ahmedinejad with uneducated hubris hasdone the same for his country.
As ever, when this happens, people from both countries will pay for electing these nuts.
Unfortunately Iraqis are caught in between too.
Re: Americans storm Iranian Consulate; 5 hostages being held
mr. fraudia, i want a motive. what was their motive? to bring shias into power? to weaken the sunni gov of pakistan, afghanistan.? root out all sunnis from pak? what was thier main goal in supporting or encouraging these groups..?
i know the reasoning behind it myself, but i want to hear your views or 'facts' as you call em, and whether its even relevant to the situation in iraq of today.
Re: Americans storm Iranian Consulate; 5 hostages being held
Spread of Shiaism, hor ki Mooli G. These dudes were inspired by Ayatollah's supreme leadership. In Iraq you could the motives can be political. They dont want Sunnis to take over and rule over them as they have when Saddam was in charge.
Re: Americans storm Iranian Consulate; 5 hostages being held
spread shiaism..? You mean by force? That never works 5abi g, and even if it werent, i dont think dawah was ever the main motive behind the tehreek.
Re: Americans storm Iranian Consulate; 5 hostages being held
i know the reasoning behind it myself, but i want to hear your views or 'facts' as you call em, and whether its even relevant to the situation in iraq of today.
i think they want muslim groups to fight against each other so it will be easy for them to destroy countries.
Re: Americans storm Iranian Consulate; 5 hostages being held
why are we going on motives now. the fact is they dicked around in 3 countries, whatever you may think their motives were, so why so surprised if someone thinks that they are muckin about in Iraq also.
so if you know the reasoning behind it yourself, wy dont you just post it. I recall someone said justa few posst ago something to the tune of - why do people beat around the bush and not just state stuff-
I am stating stuff- the state of Iran has been an extremist state controlled by that fanatical bunch of loons one idiot ayotollah after another and they have interefered anywhere they could to promote their idiotic cause.
PS: oh yeah do tell us what was the motive behind Iran funding extremist outfits in Pakistan, afghanistan and lebanon? why did they incite sectarian violence there. Thank you
Re: Americans storm Iranian Consulate; 5 hostages being held
well a shia would say that the SSP and LJ existed much before the SMP came into existence and SMP were always a reactionary force. Likewise the shia militias in Iraq became active after many many bombings of shia mosques.
Iran does meddle in affairs of Pakistan and Afghanistan, but in both cases it isnt with the aim of wiping out sunnies, but as a possibly ill-advised defensive measure. That is their perspective (and the perspective in a typical shia home) anyway.
Iran did not further its ideological agenda through funding sectarian groups atleast in Pakistan. The Iranian ideological mouthpiece in Pakistan, the ISO, is not at all involved in sect violence (inspite of having showpiece fighting training centers theyre pretty useless), and SMP was orignating from the polar opposite within shiaism of ISO.
So the main aim is a feeling that we need to defend ourselves when there exist people with the stated aim of wiping shias out. While the intent is understandable, vigilante justice from unruly ragtag groups is rarely a good combination, and thus we see the chaos in Iraq. But by and large, most of the indiscriminate bombings of markets and mosques are in shia neighbourhoods, and that gives you an idea of motives involved.
Politically Iran has nothing to gain from wanting the presence of a civil war in Iraq. The present govt is Shia and their goal of having a shia neighbour friendly to them is already achieved. Further violence leads the country to being fractured into pieces (a smaller share of the pie for Iran).
Re: Americans storm Iranian Consulate; 5 hostages being held
ravage so putting aside motives for a second, you agree that Iran has been involved in militant sectarian activities in other countries.
So, its not hard to believe that they are not involved right next door..
and that..., is my point.
Re: Americans storm Iranian Consulate; 5 hostages being held
Fraudia, it is likely that the sectarian violence helped in Afghanistan/Pakistan because Shias are in minority (atleast in Pakistan) but in Iraq they are large majority (atleast per 'western' sources), there doesn't seem to be any reason for Iran to support the sectarian violence.
Re: Americans storm Iranian Consulate; 5 hostages being held
I wouldn't put motives such as taking over Iraq and merging parts of whole of it past current Irani regime (and I am not referring to the fool ahmedinejad here).
But th eproximate cause for meddling in Iraq is simply to ensure US doesn't succeed in the mission Iraq. If US had succeeded in Iraq with a working democracy, the highly developed Iranian population will start the stirs themselves that will become very uncomfortable for the ayatollahs
Re: Americans storm Iranian Consulate; 5 hostages being held
But th eproximate cause for meddling in Iraq is simply to ensure US doesn't succeed in the mission Iraq. If US had succeeded in Iraq with a working democracy, the highly developed Iranian population will start the stirs themselves that will become very uncomfortable for the ayatollahs
Shias being in majority can still make it semi-theocracy and align with Iran, that is not too difficult a possibility.
Re: Americans storm Iranian Consulate; 5 hostages being held
Pakistan will dragged into this Sectarian War in Iraq.
Sunni and Shia volunteers will go for jihad in Iraq against each other.
So far its an Inter-Iraqi War but when the US withdraws from Iraq by 2008 after the latest Bush plan has failed and go into a containment mode.
Then the War will be funded by Sunni Countries vs Iran.
Pakistan with its large Shia population will get dragged into this.
Iraq has become this Century's Balkans (The Conflict in the Balkans led to World War I which led to World War II which led to Cold War).
Re: Americans storm Iranian Consulate; 5 hostages being held
which is well understood by the americans. hence the structural attempts to weighted proportions in power from the kurds (and sunnis to a smaller extent). The Iranians get anxious about that and intensify insurgency. The vicious cycle continues