American Scholar suggests: Afghans must respect Durand line, Karazai needs some Aql

This guy simply says, Americans must put some sense in Kabuli Kommies.
**
“Afghanistan will have to respect legitimate Pakistani concerns about the border [Durand Line] and an Indian presence… Afghanistan also should refrain from relations with Pashtun leaders in Pakistan that give the impression that the government represents Pashtun.” The author of the report, Barnett Rubin, an old Afghanistan hand, also says that the US should help Afghans realise that Islamabad will not respect a border that Kabul does not recognise."**

This guys Barnett Rubin, really knows Afghanistan. I am impressed with his detailed knowldge of Afghanistan’s history. Read more at:
http://www.asiasource.org/news/special_reports/rubin.cfm

He also explains why Zahir Shah never got good reception in Pakistan. It was all thanks to Bharati Tuttoos (lackeys) in Kabul.

Re: American Scholar suggests: Afghans must respect Durand line, Karazai needs some Aql

The same americans who had no problem funding the mujahideen, and then conveniently left when they got their job with. lolllllll. Anyways I read it and see what he has to say.

Re: American Scholar suggests: Afghans must respect Durand line, Karazai needs some Aql

Hey you want American money, then work with them. You can't get $$ the same time you piss in American plates.

Human's generally know not to piss in their own dinner plate. Unfortunately Kabulis didn't learn some basic set of human behavior.

Re: American Scholar suggests: Afghans must respect Durand line, Karazai needs some Aql

Ohhh these tunnel Ranjit Singhi views on current events---The present crisis are not due to border issue alone-It is a broader conflict in which two expansionist ideologies are pitched against each other i.e. (1) Western Capitalism vying to retain its supremacy in the Middle East and further expand it into the rest of Euroasia and (2) politico-militant-Jehadi Islam of South Asia aided by other authoritarian Islamic and non-Islamic states and wanting greater share in world/regional resources and role in world/regional politics...

Durand Line isn't the main cause...it is all about regional and world hegemony...let us wait what happens in the coming 10 years...

One opinion is that the current voilence in Southern Afghanistan is to forestall the deployment of NATO forces there...this expalins well whose stakes are involved...

Re: American Scholar suggests: Afghans must respect Durand line, Karazai needs some Aql

Mara da alak samee gee na last rora, chay sok da pakhtano(afghanano) pasay khapakeegee aghay tha communist waye. Laka da day khalak Afghanistan tarakee ghukhtala lollllllllll.

Re: American Scholar suggests: Afghans must respect Durand line, Karazai needs some A

Seems that Afghanistan government throughout the years does not have ability to think, probably because amongst many things they lack, they lack intelligence too.

Since 1947, Afghanistan was always pro India (except for few years) but they were always dependent on Pakistan. It was (and will be) always in the hand of Pakistan to make their life miserable still Pakistan always tolerated them.

Just imagine that Pakistan is the only country in the world that when working out their wheat requirement, Pakistan includes the population of Afghanistan as Afghanistan depends on Pakistan wheat. Unfortunately, most of the wheat that goes to Afghanistan is smuggled and thus this Pakistani export stays unrecorded.

Pakistan always gave Afghanistan access for importing their goods through Pakistan and the result is that, their access of importing goods through Pakistan duty free was always misused by afghan based importers as after importing, they smuggled most of those goods into Pakistan (thus Pakistan loosing on duty on those goods).

Actually, all this is happening because of porous border. I believe that Pakistan should have better control over the border and that would not only going to stop illegal smuggling but it would make Afghan government realize how much they depend on Pakistan for survival.

Re: American Scholar suggests: Afghans must respect Durand line, Karazai needs some Aql

Hahahaha…how smart of you:confused:

Re: American Scholar suggests: Afghans must respect Durand line, Karazai needs some Aql

“Afghanistan will have to respect legitimate Pakistani concerns about the border [Durand Line] and an Indian presence... Afghanistan also should refrain from relations with Pashtun leaders in Pakistan that give the impression that the government represents Pashtun.” The author of the report, Barnett Rubin, an old Afghanistan hand, also says that the US should help Afghans realise that Islamabad will not respect a border that Kabul does not recognise."

Very well said!!!!Charsai needs to get a reality check, it will be good for him and his country.

Re: American Scholar suggests: Afghans must respect Durand line, Karazai needs some Aql

Afghanistan has been digging its grave from the beggining... Its nothing more then a hostile country with hostile intentions... It shouldnt cry if it gets the same in return.

Re: American Scholar suggests: Afghans must respect Durand line, Karazai needs some A

Ya, and other people are so intelligent and smart that they don't know industrail empires of Lahore, Sialkot, etc. could be established only with gas from Baluchistan and electric power from Pakhtunkhwa...not to mention the wheat, rice, and cotton, the tropical crops, they grow in the very arid environment of Punjab by stealing water from water-share of other provinces...

Agriculture is a provincial subject and so wheat is provincially taxed, traded, and priced. Other provinces buy from Punjab in inter-provincial trade...In Punjab rates are subsidized and until floor-millers of Punjab don't get their full-quota...Floor millers of other provinces cannot buy wheat directly from Punjab's market...

Tobbaco, grown in Peshawar Valley, is federally taxed...

That much for wheat...

Imagine, if supply of water, electricity, and gas is disrupted to Punjab what would happen to the economy of Punjab...Punjab is already land-locked and culturally and geographically extends into India...

People of Punjab need to think about the future and act wisely...

Re: American Scholar suggests: Afghans must respect Durand line, Karazai needs some A

Well you have legitimate points against Punjab. Punjab has been too tolerant of little pipsqueak qbailies (tribals). Punjab has also been "blessed" by "easy going" sarkari politikos on one side and Commies a la Ramay on the other side. But no one was a Punjabi nationalist. They thought Pakistan is for everyone, let's make Urdu (my UP community's lingo) as "national language", keep your head low and survive.

Those are clearly the wrong approaches. Some Punjabis are realizing that. I hear in my circles that Punjabis should support non-Urdu doctrine. That means respect of state languages like Pushto, Balochi, and Sindhi. That also means giving some taxation rights (income and excise) to the Frontier, Sindh, and Balochistan.

However the new paradigm also talks about strong Federal control over the states when it comes to law and order. It means scorch the damn Qabaili town that tries to create anarchy and terrorism.

You should be happy that Qabailies will get more rights, and you ought to worry that terrorism and anarchy (the hallmark of Kabuli kommies) will result in kicking all those trouble makers in the @$$.

Re: American Scholar suggests: Afghans must respect Durand line, Karazai needs some Aql

Ex ambassador and ISI chiefs comments on his recent trip to Afghanistan.

Whither strategic depth?

LT GEN (RETD) ASAD DURRANI
“Neki kar, darya mein dal”, isone of the many pearls ofwisdom passed on to us over the ages. Another adage comes close: “a good deed done by one hand should not be known even to the other hand”. It may not work doing your tax returns: even left-handed generosities have to be recorded, usually by the other hand. It was still our best bet in the tax-free Afghanistan.
**Want an Afghan to be grateful for our help during the Soviet occupation? Then don’t talk about it. There are good chances that he would express his gratitude, before he expressed his ire for whatever we may or may not have done thereafter.
To do one better, tell him the truth: we helped the Afghans not because we loved a brotherly neighbourly people, but in the faint hope that their legendry resistance would turn the Bear back. When it did, we expressed no gratitude.
On the other hand, we blamed the Afghans for painting the Pakistani landscape with drugs and weapons; what in the first place was ours to prevent. The Afghans are now paying us back in the same coin. They blame us for what we are neither solely responsible, nor can do much about. Time to be truthful to each other. **

The Afghans know for example that we cannot control the cross-border movement; not with eighty thousand troops or for that matter with any other number. Let us say so. We know that fencing or mining this border was not a practical proposition. Even if it were, without effective cover of fire and observation (ask any PMA cadet), it would be breached before one could say “Durand Line”. The Afghans suspect, understandably, that our main interest was to clinch this issue once and for all. Of course their suspicion is ill-founded, but that is how one survives in a tribal society: by being suspicious; and not by being trustful. The problem is that we too have not done enough to address their paranoia.

Durand Line may not be an effective barrier against unwanted movement of people, it does seem to have blocked the much needed exchange of ideas. We in Pakistan for example, despite being the collateral beneficiaries of the US war on Afghanistan, feel sorry that our neighbours were once again under foreign rule. Most of the Afghans still see the invasion as a liberating act. Mercifully, the Americans were doing their best to bring the Afghan illusions closer to ours. What are we doing to bridge some of the weirdest gaps deep down?

Reaction in Pakistan to the American led intervention was a mixed bag. But most of us were relieved to shed some of our Afghan baggage that was getting unwieldy. I do not know anyone here who in his right mind wants us to mess around again in their power politics. Most of the Afghans are, however, convinced that Pakistan had not given up its Taliban option. Perceptions on the refugees are even more diverse, and even more absurd.

We suspect that Kabul was hedging on their return by design: they are to serve as “the fifth column”, whenever. The Afghans believe, we would only send them back under a Taliban flag. The thought that they might be- like many of our compatriots in yonder lands- economic refugees, does not seem to have crossed our collective mind. Nor, are the Pakistanis too keen to recall that most of them wandered into the subcontinent uninvited. In any case, the present number of Afghans here was not an “unbearable burden” for a country that adds every year, without any external help, more than that to its human ecology.
Many of our perceptions are obviously influenced by how we read the signals from the other side. Strategic Depth is a sound concept, but has caused confusion in both the countries. Afghanistan provided us “forward” strategic depth against the Soviet Union.

When the Soviets invaded the Country, we lost this depth. The concept, however, goes beyond its more familiar geographical dimension (Israel’s strategic depth, for example, lies thousands of miles away in the US). I, therefore, readily agreed with the wise Afghan who suggested that Pakistan’s strategic concerns were best served by winning over the Afghan hearts. Most Afghans, however, believe that we would rather conquer the Afghan heartland. And most Pakistanis would rather not believe in such amorphous conceptions to start with.

And then there was this misconception that we needed a “friendly government” in Afghanistan. The professionals amongst us have always pleaded that any ruler of Afghanistan would ultimately be friendly, if not for love of Pakistan than out of compulsions of Afghanistan. Those who were crowned in Kabul because they vowed to be less friendly (Daud, Taraki, Amin, even Najeeb) paid the price for accepting the Pakistani reality. But then no ruler in Kabul, even if he rode to power on Al-Khalid tanks, would do our bidding once he was there. Post Taliban we know that. To convince the Afghans, that we know , we have to cut the Gordian Knot.

Alexander wanted to rule Asia and therefore, so goes the fable, he used a sword to cut the knot tied by King Gordius of Phrygia. Pakistan and Afghanistan, too, have tied themselves in knots. Neither country has any imperial designs, but both seem unable to breakout of their ideated fortresses, and innovate to break the logjam. This knot can be cut without the sword.

The state apparatus falls short on such occasions. The bureaucratic compulsion to respond in kind only aggravates the grumpy environment. Under pressure of the fourth estate, that in the meantime leads all others by their tail, the diatribe escalates to levels where retrieval becomes difficult. It is time for the “civil society”, or whatever was left of it in the two countries, to get involved.
During my recent visit to Kabul, I found much concern about the rapid decline in our relationship and also many ideas how to go about preventing it: establish a standing joint commission to stem the rot; form a council of wise men on both sides; high time some ulema talked to the clerics who were enflaming the tribal areas; we need to watch out for the third countries exploiting our conflicts; so on and so forth. The Durand Line, after all, was not impervious to the right ideas.
The principle of dialogue on multiple tracks, even with different speeds, was always unexceptionable. It’s clichéd version, “people to people contact”, helped us synergise the peace process with India. That reminds me: didn’t we often blame India for being a “stingy big brother”? So how about showing a bit of magnanimity to our little brother in distress?

And while still on India; why so much fuss over the Indian consulates? Of course, they are up to the usual mischief. But since it is the “done-thing”, it might as well be done through the consulates. We can then keep track. Or else, we will have to track down all the NGOs, construction companies, and every Afghan who learnt Hindi from the Indian films. Let us play the game that we are good at, and leave Buzkushi and Hindukushi to the Afghans.

Re: American Scholar suggests: Afghans must respect Durand line, Karazai needs some Aql

antibiol still stuck on durand line issue :bummer:
is it your nightmare source at night??

Re: American Scholar suggests: Afghans must respect Durand line, Karazai needs some Aql

Afghans must learn to respect a lot of things, from human life to women's rights. But so must the ISI and Army establishment respect democracy and human rights.

Failure to do so will only lead to more "strategic depth" great games.

Re: American Scholar suggests: Afghans must respect Durand line, Karazai needs some A

it's 21st century: free market, globalistaion, the progress of pakistan, afghanistan and india will not be achieved by inforcing borders, increasing tariff and promoting hatred btw people!

peace and prosperity goes hand in hand!
international trade is the best asset of modern economy, pakistan, india and afghanistan leaders should cooperate instead of backbiting each other at diplomatic meetings.

Re: American Scholar suggests: Afghans must respect Durand line, Karazai needs some Aql

Most of the Pashtuns who live on the Pakistan side of the Durand line are far better off than those on the Afghan side, and have always been well integrated into Pakistani society. I don't think Pakistani Pashtuns would give up the relative stability and better living standards to become part of the chaos that is Afghanistan.

Re: American Scholar suggests: Afghans must respect Durand line, Karazai needs some Aql

But most of the Pashtuns don't want injected militant-islamic ideologies, imported terrorism, proxy wars, anarchy, and destruction on their land be it west or east of the divide....because all this has made their lives miserable and is doomening their future as a community...

Why not fight the war of your interests on your own land...i.e. east of Indus?

Re: American Scholar suggests: Afghans must respect Durand line, Karazai needs some A

we want to live peacefully in Pakistan with others and want to benefit from economic potential of the region (Afghanistan, India, Pakistan, Central Asia, Middle East, etc.) ...in fact we as a community have to achieve a lot in terms of human development rather than to indulge into such irrational and insensible adventures as acquisition of sophisticated weapons and clash with key regional and global powers ... we know we are a small community with very limited resources and sophistication...but peace on our land has become a far cry...anarchy in Afghanistan has a fall-out on us...anarchy in our area has a fall-out on Afghanistan...it is really frustrating...