a simple example of this is the trend of non-muslim comedian talking pro-muslims .. and recently geert wilders brother came on television and openly opposed his brother that he is only trying to create hatred and get fame!
so hurry up, before you find yourself standing last in line!
He’s protesting (probably against America), wow, freedom of expression.
Mosques get arson attacked in America/UK (the biased papers never report it) doesn’t mean we start forming a negative opnion of all Americans/Brits.
I once turned on a Christian Tv channel to learn about other religions and the pastor was foaming at the mouth screaming about Muslims being the Anti-Christ, doesn’t mean I start thinking all Americans/Christians are like that.
big whoop. I dont think america/americans rates too highly in any part of the world today...Their reputation (whatever they had left) lies in ruins...and will take a while to recover. So if i were you, i'd focus improving on youre image to the rest fo the world, rather than worrying your brain cells about other people.
As an american youre pretty much in the same boat, as an indian however, you're down right sinking.
Actually, he was protesting against the decision to knight Rushdie. Of course, knowing how all protests organized by religious fanatics go, they often turn into violence. I remember when fanatics in Lahore resorted to rioting during the cartoon crisis, destroying property and even torching a KFC. 
Since when do these people care about freedom of expression? Try doing that in Pakistan and watch yourself either get jailed or murdered on the charges of “blasphemy”.
Actually, yes they do get reported here, and security is at least provided if needed.
That’s because a lot of evangelical Christians in America are like that. Non-Muslim Brits are among the first to speak out against the idiots in America. I don’t say anything because I agree with them on that.
You are so quick to condemn the West yet you constantly ignore the atrocities committed by fellow Muslims.
A bit like you always pointing out the faults in Muslims/Pakis but completely ignoring/downplaying the ones committed by Non-Muslims (usually against Muslims).
Dude I bet you've rimmed so much American back side your tongue is brown.
big whoop. I dont think america/americans rates too highly in any part of the world today...Their reputation (whatever they had left) lies in ruins...and will take a while to recover. So if i were you, i'd focus improving on youre image to the rest fo the world, rather than worrying your brain cells about other people.
Well, for Pakistanis living in America, and for hypocritical Pakistanis in Pak who are quick to burn the US flag in protest while begging for a US visa, it does matter.
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As an american youre pretty much in the same boat, as an indian however, you're down right sinking.
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Is that why India is progressing, in spite of its troubles? Ask any Westerner or anyone from East Asia where they would go for holiday: India or Pakistan? It's always going to be the former. Who would want to go to Pakistan when there's so much going on there?
A bit like you always pointing out the faults in Muslims/Pakis but completely ignoring/downplaying the ones committed by Non-Muslims (usually against Muslims).
Dude I bet you've rimmed so much American back side your tongue is brown.
Why should I bring up crimes by non-Muslims on here when it would yield a better response on a non-Muslim board? Besides, I rather debate about problems with the Muslim world with other Muslims than with other non-Muslims (who often have no clue to begin with).
Besides, at least in America, a Pakistani is able to be a mayor of a small town that is majority white. Come back to me when a Christian or an Ahmadhi are afforded similar rights in Pakistan.
Pakis never boast about “freedom of expression”, western countries on the other hand do, so it’s erroneaous for them to endorse Rushdy for hurting the feelings of billions and condemn someone else for protesting against that… Nothing wrong with protesting as long as it’s peaceful.
I didn’t like the idea of Rushdie being knighted either but I don’t endorse violence.
I think we Muslims are responsible for giving Rushdie and his likes so much attention. If it hadn’t been for us nobody would even know who he was.
Re: American public views Pakistan poorly
wow .. what a guy we have on our hands! is your life really so empty dhj??!!!
even the biggest politicians agrees behind curtains what a load of bull**** is being presented to the world in disguise of ulterior benefits!
and you my child, are so innocently influenced! go get yourself a cute little toy!
Pakis never boast about "freedom of expression", western countries on the other hand do, so it's erroneaous for them to endorse Rushdy for hurting the feelings of billions and condemn someone else for protesting against that... Nothing wrong with protesting as long as it's peaceful.
It doesn't matter. No one in Pakistan should complain about how they are seen when they do very little to stem it. I felt the same way when Bush was in office and people did nothing to stem that perception as well.
I agree with you that there is nothing wrong with protesting...as long as it does not inflame tensions and create a potential for violence. Holding protest signs such as the one where this niqabi in Islamabad put "God Bless Hitler"? WTH does that accomplish?
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I didn't like the idea of Rushdie being knighted either but I don't endorse violence.
I think we Muslims are responsible for giving Rushdie and his likes so much attention. If it hadn't been for us nobody would even know who he was.
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Blame it on Khomeini's fatwa. The book was garbage to begin with.
a simple example of this is the trend of non-muslim comedian talking pro-muslims .. and recently geert wilders brother came on television and openly opposed his brother that he is only trying to create hatred and get fame!
so hurry up, before you find yourself standing last in line!
Can you provide me a link to his brother's claims? I tried looking for it but couldn't find it. Thanks.
Well, for Pakistanis living in America, and for hypocritical Pakistanis in Pak who are quick to burn the US flag in protest while begging for a US visa, it does matter.
Like I said, who cares?. Its like one monkey pointing fingers at anothers red butt whilst ignoring its own.
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Is that why India is progressing, in spite of its troubles? Ask any Westerner or anyone from East Asia where they would go for holiday: India or Pakistan? It's always going to be the former. Who would want to go to Pakistan when there's so much going on there?
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yeah mate...we're all dying to go there....give us a visa already!
well, if it's any consolation, America and its public are viewed quite poorly world wide. and that is despite Obama who has garnered so much good will from the whole world.
the rabid anti-Americanism that you see in Pakistan thanks to idiots like Jamaat-e-Islami, etc is pretty stupid. and as a Pakistani, I feel that we must get rid of these fanatics/thugs for our own sake - not for anyone else.
but at the same time, I`ve always been fascinated by the average American's ability/need to have an opinion on everything - regardless of whether he/she knows a thing about the topic at hand. never stops them from yapping on and on. wonder if Americans even know that Pakistan is not an Arab country. we might have a million faults but Pakistan is not a wasteland like Iraq or dysfunctional mess like Saudi Arabia.
but I guess what do you expect when people like Rush Limbaugh, Bill OReilly, Glenn Beck rule the air waves in this country. I will never forget when Bill Papa Bear OReilly was trying to bully a guest (might have been George Galloway) and said that the Iraq war was waged to get rid of a brutal dictator. Galloway (I think) said that America was in bed with the same dictator a few decades back. so, why did the US do business with the brutal dictator back then. OReillys response was something as follow: so what. that is ancient history and irrelevant now.
the above is the mindset of a "pundit". what do you expect the average redneck Amreekan watching O'Reilly to learn from this. and should we expect him to have any understanding of Pakistan or even be able to point out Pakistan on a globe?
X2, thats exactly the thing!! Most americans have such limited experience of desi culture, of Pakistan, of Islaam. And most Muslims tend to keep to themselves over here and not mix in, not educate their american peers about Islaam or Pakistan or cultural issues.
Those who are proud of who and what they are, those who share their important cultural values and celebrations are most welcome!
Its when you keep to yourselves your celebrations, your values and your beleifs...thats when mistrust develops.
SHARE people!!!
I do want to put some balance here. I think you are only partially right here, to share there have to be two willing parties, but just as many times the pakistanis or muslims or any assorted recent immigrants dont open up or mix in, just as much there are people who are not receptive or only want ppl to mix in at terms that are dictated to them. Or in communication rather than being open minded and willing to learn, that is an opportunity for them just to start attacking the person and trying to prove him wrong.
There are people who no amount of communication and sharing will help. years of bigoted upbringing, ingrained prejudice and racism, xenophobic views etc are too much for casual conversations to make a chip in, and that is true for all involved.
That being said, people should try and integrate more, but integrate more with the right people unless they enjoy hitting their heads on rocks..because some people would never understand..again..on all groups involved.
so yes..SHARE people. both groups, the recent immigrants, and the old immigrants (and native americans too)
Re: American public views Pakistan poorly
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but I guess what do you expect when people like Rush Limbaugh, Bill OReilly, Glenn Beck rule the air waves in this country. I will never forget when Bill Papa Bear OReilly was trying to bully a guest (might have been George Galloway) and said that the Iraq war was waged to get rid of a brutal dictator. Galloway (I think) said that America was in bed with the same dictator a few decades back. so, why did the US do business with the brutal dictator back then. OReillys response was something as follow: so what. that is ancient history and irrelevant now.
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Not to defend O'Reilly as I hate the hack, but Galloway himself was in bed with dictators before. He not only supported the invasion of Afghanistan by the Soviets, but supported Saddam Hussein and Slobodan Milosevic.
Not to defend O'Reilly as I hate the hack, but Galloway himself was in bed with dictators before. He not only supported the invasion of Afghanistan by the Soviets, but supported Saddam Hussein and Slobodan Milosevic.
Galloway was not making a moral argument when he mentioned Saddam being a dictator and still being a former ally of the US. he was pointing out the hypocrisy of doing business with a brutal dictator and then invading the same country because of the very same dictator`s brutality.
I will never forget OReillys response. it literally seemed like he had never even thought of that angle and couldn't figure out how it was even relevant at all. must be one of the most shocking moments in TV history. makes me really wonder about his viewers and how much they think given how their pundit thinks (or doesn't think?).
forget about ignorant morons like O`Reilly, Glenn Beck, etc. one of the other really interesting ppl I find is Gartner. that man is a so-called financial pundit. even though pretty much everything that comes out of his mouth or anything he writes is horse manure. the most fascinating thing about him is the underlying bigotry and racism in his rubbish newsletter. the man is a racist if there was one. yet his newsletter reaches the trading floor of every financial institution in North America.
the point is glass houses... and ppl who live in it should not throw stones at others. we will fix our problems for our own sake - not because of what the average American who gets his views from the likes of Glenn Beck, Lou Dobbs, O'Reilly thinks of us...
Pakistanis image has nothing to do with "ugly bearded men" or any of that unsubstantial rhetoric. Pakistan's image has to do with the lack of lobbying efforts of Pakistanis who live in America and Canada. Lobbying effects policies, which effect action-plan, which again effects media reporting, which reflects right back at home either positively or negatively.
Pakistanis need to take more interest in American affairs, and make it personal. To care for America's affairs while living in America is essentially as important as caring for Pakistani affairs, because what happens over here, matters over there.
Re: American public views Pakistan poorly
^ Teggy is right.
And there is no need to fight with each other. Over all the situation in Pak is getting worse day by day. What i feel is its not the extremist who are doing these blasts. Its US, India and Israel. Our govt has sold out to them so we are in really tough situation :(
Pray for Pakistan :(
Did you forget what happened in Bangladesh circa 1971? Or the hundreds of thousands of Muslims slaughtered in Algeria by your beloved fundamentalists in the 1990s? You are so quick to condemn the West yet you constantly ignore the atrocities committed by fellow Muslims.
You looser
you are talking about what happend in the past but are u forgetting what is happening in
Indian Occupied Kashmir? In Gujrat and Ayodhia? In Iraq? In Afghanistan?
What is your purpose to hate Pakistanis or Pakistan?
Who did commit more attrocities in history MUSLIMS or the WEST?
Who was responsible for more killings of human beings the MUSLIMS or the WEST?
If you don't know the anwser then keep ur mouth shut please.
Pakistanis image has nothing to do with "ugly bearded men" or any of that unsubstantial rhetoric. Pakistan's image has to do with the lack of lobbying efforts of Pakistanis who live in America and Canada. Lobbying effects policies, which effect action-plan, which again effects media reporting, which reflects right back at home either positively or negatively.
Pakistanis need to take more interest in American affairs, and make it personal. To care for America's affairs while living in America is essentially as important as caring for Pakistani affairs, because what happens over here, matters over there.
Pretty much you nailed it on the head. It's amazing how much wealth and education the Pakistani community has in the U.S. but it does very little when it comes to lobbying efforts. Follow
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What i feel is its not the extremist who are doing these blasts. Its US, India and Israel. Our govt has sold out to them so we are in really tough situation
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Denial of the roots isn't going to get you or the country anywhere. Until Pakistanis take a very good look at what they helped breed in the 1990's when they were used as lackeys in the fight against India, blaming it on them isn't going to get you anywhere. Face it, the Pakistani ISI bred the menace that is haunting the country and is paying a dear price for it. There are still Pakistanis who have no problem seeing the Afghan Taliban take over in neighboring Afghanistan, knowing full well the atrocities they committed against the Hazara population and the sheltering of terrorists. It is quite hypocritical to condemn Israel for Gaza, yet turn a blind eye to the atrocities the Afghan Taliban committed. At least Ahmed Rashid has the balls to admit that the Pak government continues to give support to Islamic extremists who are truly responsible for the crisis that is unraveling today. Blowback, anyone? Even Iran and China are getting fed up with the empathy Pakistanis feel for extremists setting up shop to fight against the "kuffar".