American Presidential Candidates

Fellow American guppies, which presidential candidate do you most agree with/ whom will you be voting for?

I much like the ideas and principles of Ron Paul:

he’s a strict constitutionalist

wants to get rid of the federal reserve (the big money bank that is independent of the government and does not have to be approved by the
executive/legislative branches, deflates/inflates money whenever it pleases, barely accountable for itself)

repeal Obamacare so that citizens are not forced to carry government-approved health insurance

cut down on military costs by a trillion dollars or so

restrain federal spending

cut down on income/death taxes

repeal patriot act

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I like to give Obama one more chance. He deserves it. The guy was put in charge of things at the most difficult times of American history. Its unfair to judge his performance based on 4 years of presidentship.

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He would be my second choice, followed later by Rick Santorum

This may interest you http://whattheheckhasobamadonesofar.com/?q=6

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^ How can you support Rick Santorum? He holds the typical idiotic views one associates with the likes of Fox News: he believes in American exceptionalism (an ideology that is the basis for America's disastrous foreign policy), agrees with "enhanced interrogation" (i.e. torture), and said he agrees with 98% of what Bush did.

I think Ron Paul's ideas regarding financial reform and foreign policy are worth a look, although some of his other views are a bit out there. Mitt Romney is a corporate jackass (much like Obama) but he's probably most likely to be centrist (if at all). Santorum and Gingrich are morons who display shocking ignorance when it comes to social issues and basic history.

By the way, Obama has pissed off so many people with some of his bowing down to corporations and Republicans that I wonder if he's secretly a Republican. How does Obama justify signing (actually pushing for) the bill that grants the government to indefinitely detain any American citizen if they think he or she is a terrorist?

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Obama.

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Ron Paul because he is fiscal conservative.

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Ron Paul. Because he appears to have non-interventionist foreign policy.
If not Ron Paul then any democratic candidate is better than Republican white racist, Muslim hating, poor hating, Republicans.

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Im not for anyone. Obama is also a sell out, but he is still the lesser of the other evils.

Ron Paul foreign policy works in my books, although cutting all foreign aid may come back to bite everyone in the rear. His domestic policy seems way to extreme.

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^ Shocking how un American this is, and hardly anyone has protested. The founding fathers would be rolling over in their graves.

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it's not just about getting another chance. as a first-term president, he has deliberately under-pursued his stated agenda so as not to risk reelection problems. his supporters should not judge the first term because it was always meant to be written off as mediocre/neutral, especially in such a hostile political environment.

a second term qualitatively empowers a president much more than simply giving him another four years. his second term would certainly be more geared towards promoting the interests of his base.

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What does that say of his character that he chooses to sacrifice his stated agenda for the sake of a second term?

According to inside memos, its not that he under-pursued his stated agenda, its that he is not the progressive he campaigned as, but a centrist, who truly believes that he has to bridge the divide to get anything done. In doing so, he ended up sacrificing some very important aspects of that agenda, including things like the public option.

And the second part doesnt make sense. Wouldn't he need his base to be re-elected? Why would he need to appeal to them in his second, for posterity?

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O B A M A

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the sacrifice is not from the perspective of personal gain or personal job security. it's a strategic approach that ensures 8 years of democrat (read "non-republican") rule including a full 4 years of base-friendly policymaking, at least in theory. i think it's a perfectly intelligent strategy in an extremely hostile/polarized political environment.

[quote]
According to inside memos, its not that he under-pursued his stated agenda, its that he is not the progressive he campaigned as, but a centrist, who truly believes that he has to bridge the divide to get anything done. In doing so, he ended up sacrificing some very important aspects of that agenda, including things like the public option.
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i don't think this is true at all. the man is an out-and-out left-winger by nature. the centrist approach is a function of pragmatism and survival. in a bad economy, the grumbling electorate is automatically predisposed to anti-incumbency. he has to play it extra safe.

apart from strategic centrism, the perceived ineffectiveness of this first term is also largely a function of the 2010 mid-term elections and the resulting republican obstructionism. that was out of his control entirely. that problem remains a threat to a second-term obama as well.

[quote]
And the second part doesnt make sense. Wouldn't he need his base to be re-elected? Why would he need to appeal to them in his second, for posterity?
[/QUOTE]
no, he doesn't need to appeal to the base at all for reelection. the base has battered wife syndrome. it will never leave him. he needs to appeal exclusively to the independents who voted for him in 2008.

do you think a leftist who is disullisioned by obama's lack of overt liberalism would conclude that his interests would be better served by newt gingrich? obviously not.

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I like to give Obama chance too because he is still picking up the trash which Bush made.

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I voted for a third party candidate in 2008, so it would be either that or hold my nose to vote for Obama. I can't see myself voting for any republicans except Steven Colberr... :)

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This talk of voting for lesser evils, giving Obama another chance because he's a closet leftist who's waiting for the right time to come out, truly boggles my mind. Does the "Left" even exist today? How do you see the centrist "Left" reclaiming its founding values if you keep rewarding anti-progressive policies with your vote? How do you let the "Left" feel the heat when they've backtracked on the very grounds that enabled their victory 4 yrs ago? Does Obama have any credibility left when he's repudiated the very progressive movement he owes his presidency to? You'd think after 4 years we'd realize he's not the anti-establishment revolutionary we wanted him to be. Battered wife syndrome (word, @nikhil25), indeed.

Post 2008, where does this unadulterated, political blind faith in grown adults come from? It's like to hell with the OWS movement.

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a couple of points:

  1. he was not voted in by the base. the base is only around 30% of the country but he received 53% of the votes. the base is not automatically entitled to a genuine leftist president just because they chose the nominee. independents did not vote for him because they wanted legalized gay marriage and the public option. they just wanted a fresh start with a different party.

  2. you can't teach the left a lesson by voting out an incumbent democrat and empowering the right. all you can do is reward the leftist candidate in the next democratic primary (was theoretically possible for 2012 as well). but even then, the base would not suddenly elect dennis kucinich as a rebuke to obama's centrism because that would be suicidal given the virtually 50/50 polarization of the country. this polarization necessitates centrism. that is just something you have to grudgingly accept unless you reject the idea of representative democracy.

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Under pursuing is fine, and is a viable strategy, but the issue here is how in some cases, Obama has taken a more right wing stance than even the Republicans (detention act). The Bush tax cuts were also an extremely unpopular (not to mention hurtful) move. If Obama is truly trying to end bipartisanship in Washington by placating the Republicans, it's failing because the GOP does not want to compromise. Many Republicans have stated that the party's only goal is to get Obama out of office. So then the question becomes, why does he still pursue right wing (not centrist, see below) policies? Either he's a closet Republican, or more likely, he's bowing to someone, aka corporations.

I also worry about the influence that lobbyists and corporations have on Washington. Take Helen Thomas for example. Saying that "the Jews should get out of Palestine" and (on the issue of where they should go) they should "go back to Europe" got her fired. Why? Because AIPAC said so. All of these politicians, presidents included, want employment after their terms, and corporations offer them lucrative "consultant" positions in return for favourable policies.

Until corporate/lobbying influence is ended, Washington is merely a playground for political posturing, where any significant changes will have to be approved by AIPAC, Wall Street, and the defense contractors.

Centrist in America is right wing in many other countries. There was an article on a politician in Reagan's administration whose policies were compared to today's spectrum, and it turns out he was more in line with the Democrats. And Reagan is the poster boy for the Neo Cons. I agree with you that Obama should be "punished" but in the end, it makes no difference. He'll put a nicer spin on it than a GOP candidate, but they will both end up doing what they've always done: pursue an aggressive foreign policy, and cater to the upper class (who fund their campaigns and provide them with employment after their political careers).

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Good, more drone attacks on innocent Pakistanis because people are too dumb to think a little outside the box.

VOTE RON PAUL = END THE FED = END THE JEWRY TERRORISM = END THE WARS

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I loved Obama's state of the union talk yesterday. I especially loved

Manufacturing jobs back to USA
Immigration reforms to legalize skilled illegal immigrants