American marines insulting dead bodies

[nikhil25]

Re: American marines insulting dead bodies

@Med911

I think you are falling into the same trap I was speaking of earlier. Its far easier to assume our enemies are mindless zealots then actual people with actual grievances. By saying they are fanatics with a “Pan-ISLAMIST” agenda is cheap. Its allows us the convenience of not having to address actual issues. The occupation of Muslim nations is an long running theme, so that must be taken into context.

al-qaeda is indeed a congregation of ideology-driven zealots. not much different from textbook hollywood villains. i didn’t say all jihadis are.

which muslim nations were occupied by the US before 9/11? at that point, the most recent american military action in muslim lands was saving thousands of muslim lives in bosnia/kosovo and saving kuwait from annexation by saddam hussein. and of course, before that was the eviction of the soviets from afghanistan.

The fact that there are many many people, including many non Fanatical Muslims who are repulsed by the fact that the US supports not only Israel, but also other dictatorships in the Muslim world, shows that the supposed grievances you cite are not limited to fanatic “Pan Islamist s.”

many countries are allied to countries that someone or the other doesn’t like. that’s geopolitics. i personally disagree with the unconditional nature of US support for israel but it’s not a simple issue.

Would Indians accept a US base, outside of Indian jurisdiction in their territory? Especially if that presence is mandated by an un-elected and unrepresentative govt?

you are getting into extremely dangerous semi-justifications here. the US established a military presence in saudi arabia not forcibly but through an agreement between two sovereign nations and (theoretically) allies on the basis of mutual interest. why wasn’t 9/11 perpetrated against saudi arabia and the house of saud for agreeing?

in your example, indians would first protest against the idea of an unelected, unrepresentative government ruling their country. further, indians would protest against their own government if it agreed to something important that they disagreed with. what indians would NOT do is declare war on the US and kill thousands of its civilians in a massive terrorist attack.

you seem to think that because there were reasons to be unhappy with the US, that equates to inviting a response like 9/11. if you call someone’s mother a cow and he kills you in response, would you have invited that response? of course not. even though you provoked him, would anyone in their right mind say “yes of course the killer is to blame but he was kinda asking for it with that cow comment”. obviously not. nobody would say that.

I didnt say this in any way “justifies” 9/11. You should go back and read what I wrote.
I said that the US policy does create such enemies. If Al qaeda were PAN Islamist fantics, they would/could have attacked a wide range of target besides the US, inclduing mush easier targets in Europe, and lesser developed coutries. But that they chose to attack the US is reflective of the fact that its US policy that is the catalyst for such attacks. And is it a coinicdense that that the majority of the attackers and the architect of the Al Qaeda is himself a Saudi, among the closest of American allies? Why were there no Afghans or PAKISTANIS, or Indonesians? If it is a truly a Pan Islamist agenda, wouldn;t such an agenda be shared by all Muslims regarless of nationality?

pre-9/11 al-qaeda was a relatively young and small-scale organization started by arabs. gotta start somewhere. the evolution of al-qaeda indeed entailed expansion throughout pakistan, afghanistan, north africa, indonesia, and muslim diaspora communities in the west.

you must believe that muslim anger is a good reason for the US to introspect and revise policies that led to attacks like 9/11. seems logical enough, right? the problem is that muslim anger is not always a good indicator of whether or not a policy is illegitimate. this is because muslims are particularly prone to irrational anger. the danish cartoons episode is the perfect microcosmic illustration of this. the takeaway from that episode was NOT to introspect and resort to a censorship culture to keep muslims happy.