American city gives "tentative OK" for Azaan

Think about it - it’s a shame that countries like Saudi Arabia don’t even allow the construction of synagogues, temples, churches etc., let alone the tolling of churches’ bells.

City gives tentative OK for Muslim prayer calls, Detroit Free Press, 21 April 2004, Cecil Angel

The Hamtramck City Council gave initial approval Tuesday night to allowing mosques in the city to broadcast the Muslim call to prayer over loudspeakers.

The issue, which has divided many of the city’s Muslim and Christian residents, has attracted national attention and has evolved from a debate about a noise ordinance to one about religious freedom and tolerance.

Tuesday’s meeting became contentious as many residents of the 2.1-square-mile city said the call to prayer would add to noise pollution.

Others said they didn’t want Islamic beliefs imposed on them. The prayer, which is in Arabic, occurs five times a day from 6 a.m. until 10 p.m.

Supporters said the issue is religious freedom and an Islamic tradition. They cited the city’s church bells, which ring at least every hour, as comparable.

In the end, the vote on the five-member council was unanimous.

“I have no doubt that no matter how we vote, this will be an issue for the courts,” said Councilman Scott Klein. The final vote will be at the council’s 7 p.m. meeting next Tuesday. The measure would take effect May 26.

Resident Bob Golen, 68, said he’ll fight to stop the ordinance.

“This is only the beginning. There are many avenues open to us,” said Golen, who added that residents would circulate petitions to put the issue on a ballot for voters to decide. If that fails, Golen pledged to take the issue to federal court.

Masud Khan, 48, of the Al-Islah Islamic Center, which first asked the council for the amendment to the noise ordinance in January, said it took courage to approve the plan.

“I’m very happy,” he said. "Allah is great. God is good. We really appreciate their effort.

“Hamtramck is going to be a pioneer city for the whole United States.”

City Councilwoman Karen Majewski said the decision was “taken with the consideration of the whole community.”

In recent years, the city – once known for its large population of people with Polish ancestry and Catholic faith – has become increasingly Islamic.

Muslims have come to the city from Bangladesh, Yemen, Pakistan and other Islamic countries.

Shabad Ahmed – the city’s first Muslim councilman – said he’d been bombarded with phone calls. “You should see my e-mails,” he said.

shown the true spirit of what America was founded for....
they shud put in more effort to make that statue of liberty worth more than just a big stone in the sea....

Wow :eek:

Instead of allowing Azaan why don’t they maybe stop persecuting innocent Muslims around the world? And supporting terrorist nations like Israel and India? And accusing Muslims of crimes without proof? And calling true Islamic governments oppressive and making it appear like that?

What good are empty rituals without the true spirit behind them?

They don’t mind those mod-Muslims giving Azaan whose Islam is limited to empty rituals, and dancing to Yusuf Islam, Sami Yusuf and Dawud Wharnsby singing bhajans.

It’s the true Muslims they have a problem with those who want us to unite and establish the Khilaafah and follow the Shari’ah.

ooooh Armughal...what profound thoughts. There is more freedom in one brick of the statue of liberty than all of the religious shines in arabia put together. Even you can go visit the Statue of liberty. Can't say the same for my wishes to do a erect a hanuman temple in the middle of Jeddah. ;)

If you are accusing India of being a terrosrist state where is the proof?

If the proof is the action of an Indian citizens, actions, murder, genocide etc, then if ay Muslim were to do the same, cannot the Muslim world be branded terrorist?

Ashti, it is easy to critisise, even easier to blindly hate, the most difficult is to accept that things may not be the way you see them…

Matsui mate my guess u havent seen the sight of Mr monkey god for years. (if yes how often do u kneel b4 lifeless stone) so y make his shrine in Jeddah when u anit event gonna go there.

BTW tht s neva gonna happen..... :)

Actually I have ahmadarsalan. Many times. I have the money and the will to have a temple set up in Jeddah so that the poor Indian laborers can pray in peace while they work in Saudi. Imagine how cool it would be when you hear the “gayatri mantra” in the morning blaring from the louspeakers , wafting over the red sea. :flower1:

i think its dumb to have azan in a country which is secular or not very accepting of islam in the first place. if they want to hear azan so eagerly, they cud migrate to a muslim country instead. u wudnt like a church or temple in saudi arabia either. it will never work.

Folks, please stay on the topic. Any further references to India etc will be removed.

Thanks.

Personally, I think it is a great start. I would love to hear Azaan, just as we see church bells ring; and may be have some bhajans etc all over the place. This is all part of being a multi-cultural society. Ofcourse, we just need to be sensitive that it doesn't add too much to the noise levels around us.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ahmadarsalan: *

BTW tht s neva gonna happen..... :)
[/QUOTE]

I like your confidence in freedom of religion.

Here is my take on this.

Though I personally would love to hear Azan,Chruch Bell or gayatri mantra and I have no issues with it. But I guess some individual might find it painful if they are woken up by Azaan or gayatri mantra early in the morning if they slept late in night. They will really be pissed and what if they go to court and ask for banning this practice. I think that person will have a very legitimate claim.Pretty much same as banning the early morning flights if airports happen to be close to residential areas. Many cities have done it.
So I think religion is a personal preference and should be kept in your home. if you like to hear Azaan so much then use one of those website which calls for prayers based on which zip code you live in. Dont thrust your believes on to others. Just my 2 cents.

:flower1: :flower1: Why does everyone in this Forum seem to have a permanent hernia located somewhere in their anatomy.

Please do highlight in my post where i stated this illustrates the “true spirit” of the US. If you fail to find such an example, then you were putting words in my mouth and i would sincerely appreciate your not doing that. :flower1:

**
Aashti, “Bhajans”? The same individuals you are mocking with such arrogant ease, are the same Muslims who have done far, far, far more to spread the accurate message of Islam far and wide throughout the world - more tangible are their results than the weak cries of the Khilafat movement who have yet to show tangible results of their actions.

Yusuf Islam, Sami Yusuf, and Dawud Wharnsby can also be “true Muslims”. i suggest you not take Allah’s Task of judging your fellow Muslims. Leave something for Allah to do. He is more capable than all us 6 billion miserly humans put together.

Faisal Bhai, :flower1: Finally! At least a rational answer.

M, Sorry if you don’t mind my asking please, do you have a reference for that. Thank you in advance.

**

:slight_smile: :k: i may not agree with all aspects of your post, but you articulated your thoughts so well - i really respect that. Thank you for sharing your thoughts in this thread. i appreciate it.

Thanks.
What is that you dont agree with?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by suroor_ca02: *
i think its dumb to have azan in a country which is secular or not very accepting of islam in the first place. if they want to hear azan so eagerly, they cud migrate to a muslim country instead. u wudnt like a church or temple in saudi arabia either. it will never work.
[/QUOTE]

I disagree.

What is the difference between church bells ringing and Azan?

Is as it should be.

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by suroor_ca02: *
i think its dumb to have azan in a country which is secular or not very accepting of islam in the first place. if they want to hear azan so eagerly, they cud migrate to a muslim country instead. u wudnt like a church or temple in saudi arabia either. it will never work.
[/QUOTE]

so ur attitude is take ur beliefs elsewhere just cuz we don't like it/don't believe what u believe? i disagree with that :)

as mentioned in the original post, whats the diff b/w church bells and azaan? both are callin ppl to pray for their respective faiths...and its true religious freedom in "the land of the free" if all faiths are treated equally...

Great news lets hope more cities follow suit across N America and Europe.

Now, if onyl they could stop killing and discrimnating against non muslims in muslim lands.

**

Well, i agree that it could be perceived of as an ‘interference’ for some people - especially say the Azaan for Fajr prayers. But in this city of Hamtramck, the Azaan will not be allowed before 6am and after 10pm. So some compromise at least has been made. And the following article states that church bells ring during the city on a daily basis - couldn’t some individuals perceive that as a non-separation of church and state.

Having said this, i’m still debating this in my mind because i find it hard to reconcile the allowing of the Azaan and the not-allowing of many minority religious rights in Muslim countries. i still think this is a step in the right direction…but it would be nice if Muslim governments would be made aware of this so they in turn make sure that they step up their efforts to protect and enhance the rights of their nonMuslim citizens.

This is an article a Guppy friend forwarded to me :slight_smile:

Mosque prayers irk Michigan city, CBS News, 20 April 2004

Long known for pierogi and polka, the bustling city of Hamtramck, Mich., is now debating whether to add an amplified Arabic chant to the local sights and sounds.

In a sign of the deep changes in this once predominantly Polish town, the City Council is expected Tuesday to pass a noise ordinance amendment that would permit mosques to issue the traditional Islamic call to prayer over loudspeakers.

But some longtime residents are resisting what they consider an affront to non-Muslims.

Hamtramck, a city of 23,000 completely surrounded by Detroit, has an old-fashioned, small-town feel, with mom-and-pop stores and American flags adorning many of the tightly packed houses. Polish groceries and restaurants abound, and if you stop someone to ask for directions, there is a good chance that person speaks only Polish.

But in recent years, the city has become much more diverse. Stores selling saris and halal meat have opened, and signs in Bengali, Arabic and Bosnian compete with signs in Polish and English. Only 23 percent of the city’s residents specified Polish ancestry in the 2000 census. The town also has a sizable black population — 15 percent.

The relationship between old Hamtramck and new Hamtramck has not been without friction. On Election Day in 1999, members of a residents group questioned would-be voters of Middle Eastern or Asian appearance on their eligibility to vote. In response to complaints of discrimination, the Justice Department sent monitors during local elections in 2001.

Now the request by the Bangladeshi al-Islah mosque for permission to air the Arabic call to prayer via loudspeakers five times a day has again revealed tensions.

City Council president Karen Majewski said she expects the council to unanimously approve the amendment allowing the call to prayer — which was traditionally sung from a minaret but today is generally recorded — despite some protests at a hearing last week.

“It takes only one minute — what is it, five times a day? Five minutes only — that’s all we are asking for,” Masud Khan told CBS News Correspondent Lee Cowan.

Muslims figured it was no different than Christians ringing church bells which incidentally ring just across the street from the mosque five times a day, reports Cowan.

Joanne Golen, a lifelong Hamtramck resident, said she finds the content of the call to prayer offensive.

“It says Allah is the one and only God. I am Christian. My God is Jesus Christ. That is my only objection — that I have to listen to a God other than the one I believe in praised five times a day,” said Golen, 68.

Caroline Zarski, 81, said allowing the call would put Islam above other religions.

But Masud Khan, secretary of the al-Islah mosque, said the purpose of the call, which lasts less than two minutes, is not to proselytize.

“We are not inviting” non-Muslims, he said. “We are calling our Muslim people, reminding them they are obligated to come to pray.”

Hamtramck’s Bosnian and Yemeni communities each have their own mosques, but neither has raised the issue of the call to prayer.

Many Hamtramck Muslims said the call to prayer is equivalent to church bells. And Hamtramck has several churches that ring their bells.

Opponents take issue with that comparison, saying that church bells today are used to mark the time of day and have no religious significance. If the bells are the issue, then turn them off, they say.

The call to prayer can be heard elsewhere in metropolitan Detroit. The city of Dearborn, home to one of the largest communities of Arab Americans, has allowed the call under its general noise ordinance, without a specific amendment.

Hamtramck’s amended ordinance would prohibit the call before 6 a.m. or after 10 p.m. That will not always fit in with the Islamic schedule, but it is a compromise the mosque says it is willing to make.

The Michigan chapter of the American-Arab Anti-Discrimination Committee urged tolerance over the issue, condemning the “resentment and negativity” expressed during the debate.

City Council member Shahab Ahmed, who is Bangladeshi and attends al-Islah, said he was surprised the call to prayer turned into a big issue. But he said he previously experienced anti-Muslim sentiment in Hamtramck — particularly during his 2001 council bid following the Sept. 11 attacks.

But Majewski, the City Council president, said: “I think the people of Hamtramck are extraordinarily tolerant, just as evidenced by the fact that they choose to live in Hamtramck with people from all over the world.”

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:k: i agree. Thanks for sharing your thoughts in this thread, DM :flower1: