America taking over Pakistan

After 62 years suddenly self esteem woke up. What about billions and billions aid received from Uncle Sam during dictators’ time with zillions conditions attached?

paani jab sir se guzar gaya to aankh khuli.:)

By the way had this aid given to Kyani being president, would you say the same thing that America is taking over Pakistan? Perhaps Kyani would have been hero to you that America respect him so much. Isn’t it?

America taking over Pakistan? is se achhi aor kya baat hogi Pakis ke leya if Pakistan becomes one more state to America. Waisay unofficially pakis become slaves of Uncle Sam since last three decades when malown Zia-ul-Haq killed the elected PM of Pakistan and came through back door aor tamaam pakion ko Uncle Sam ki ardili main us ne laga dya

Ab pachtaaiay kya howat jab chrhyan chug gaein khet:)

1) dude, check the highlighted parts - are you in the least bit acquainted with world history? I'll leave it at that

2) now look at the underlined parts - if America is against muslims, why would they keep the centre of Islam, KSA, to be their biggest 'agent' as you call them?

Finally, no I don't think America is your friend. America is America's own friend. They are bothering with Pakistan only because of the terrorist problem. They believe with some reason that Afghanistan or Pakistan can easily become haven for attacks such as 9/11 and so are working with the Af-Pak governments to eliminate that threat. Since the terrorist threat has affected Pakistan equally badly, there is good reason why Pakistan should fully cooperate and work with Americans in removing this threat,

Re: America taking over Pakistan

@ Niden: I regretfully confess that I wasn't born in Zia-ul-Haq's era, nor was I sensible enough to understand the issues during Musharraf's era. This is the first time, after gaining my senses, that I'm seeing something like this happening. Plus, there haven't been a similar bill passed in the past.

@ Jalaluddin: Neither you nor I can ever justify ourselves on whether America is our friend or not. The debate will go on and on. In my case, I just cannot trust America enough. I have heard about America having wars and being so ruthless, all my life.
The conditions it has put with the bill are very disturbing. Americans are freely moving around our cities now and have access to places that not even our commanders have. This is quite upsetting.
After reading all the news on this bill, I had too much in my mind to pour out, and I did it. Whatever I wrote was totally biased. However, if you have any solid facts that you would like to share, I would highly appreciate that.

Your sources are doing a fine job I should say...

Re: America taking over Pakistan

I read and heard these things on news... I'm ofcourse not making them up :S

Emile - for youngsters (I assume you're one) who do not have the benefit history, I can completely understand the hurt about current situation and the perceived lack of respect for Pakistan by America.

no country has friends;thy just look after their own interests and that leads to sometimes friendliness and sometimes enmity. Neither is permanent.

In Americans' minds, their activities in Afghanistan and Pakistan are simply part of defending themselves from terrorism.

The problem is Bush/Cheney/Rumsfeld went about this noble goal as warriors rather than thoughtful statesmen - in the process they have ended up alienating many muslims and actually strengthening the hands of the terrorists.

Countries like Pakistan and India should absolutely stop being played as pawns by anyother country. In my view, India has woken up a bit more and a bit earlier than Pakistan. You guys need to do the same.

But in order to do that you need internal law & order. That has established a vicious cycle where your domestic policies and foreign policy are directly in conflict.

They are in conflict because of entrenched interests of the past goals and expectations (eg: Kashmir, Afgan depth of influence etc) that are still driving some key stakeholders in your military. It is further compounded by the religious factor and the historical lack of control over FATA etc.

The only solution I see is for these entrenched senior people to retire from all Pakistani institutions. Equally important that the new generation that replaces the old has equipped itself with the correct version history - not the politically motivated version that the establishment gives you, or the religious glory version that some madrassahs give you or the combination of the two that clowns like Zaid Hamid give you.

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I do not believe in following other people's opinions when I can form my own.. I know they may not be as good, but I have my own reasons...

Even if I agree with you when you say that America is doing it only because it wants to eradicate terrorism, but how can you trust any country, yet alone America, with your Army?

Secondly, a lieutenant told me couple of months ago that during his posting in the northern areas, he came across the so-called Talibans. They had sharai beards and spoke fluent dialects. They had all weapons. When they were arrested, can you guess what was found with them? Cheques paid in American dollars and DVDs of American movies (in English). Those people weren't even Muslims.

What would you like to say about that??

[By the way, this is an undeniable fact that non-Muslim agents from many countries, in disguise of Muslims, are dwelling on our land]

Re: America taking over Pakistan

^ ofcourse you have to form your own opinion. How can anyone else do it for you?

I am not saying you should trust or distrust America, with your army or anything else for that matter. You have to be your own country and the army has to be your own. But know the difference in motives for American action - it is not to grab Pakistan and control it but to ensure terrorism does not have a base there. If the government agencies such as ISI had not had such close and conflicted relationships with the terrorists, there will be no attempt to influence them by Americans.

As to the dollar cheques and DVDs - how did your friend know they were taleban? and there have been public cases of al qaeda training foreigners and paying them / funding them with dollars. Al Qaeda had to fund foreign terror operations with dollars - example the woring of dollars to Mhd Atta

Re: America taking over Pakistan

i dont think there is anything to be discussed or debated in this post.. it is obvious that AMERICA HAS ALREADY TAKEN OVER PAKISTAN.. you can see from the history of pak.. all the political leaders who worked for AMERICA, remained in power but when they stopped, their rule also stopped, infact some of them lost their lives also.

Re: America taking over Pakistan

If you do a bit of research, you can see that the final force that would lead the muslims to victory in this world (as per our faith) would be from this part of the world (Pakistan, Afghanistan and Iran)..

So i think this reason is strong enough for the zionists and their followers to take over pak.

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Pakistan is the only state formed with an ideology sirjee.. and that too an ISlamic Ideology..

this shouldn't be very ideal for the zionists

Then why do you assume that America is taking over when you don't even know the recent history of Pakistan? Before you write any thing like that, you need to study thoroughly the history of Pakistan since 1947, written mostly by un-biased authors. Start reading the book "India Wins Freedom" by Maulana Abul Kalam Azad, which you can find in your local library.

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Emile you aren an embarassment to the human race. Either learn to read - and by that I mean informed sources not what Niden and co read - or shut it.

Mullana Azad is anything but an un-biased author, he was an ardent opposer of Pakistan.

Mr Niden, i think you need better sources of history, i would suggest, 1-The Indian Summer and
2-Raj, The making and End of British India.

So what so were JI and JUI Hind, later Pakistan (Maulana Mufti Mahmood, father of Maulana Fazaur-Rehaman were deadly against the creation of Pakistan. They are now champions of Pakistan.

I always admire Maulana's vision of the future. According to his will his book "India Wins Freedom" thirty pages were published in 80's after 30 years of his death. His prediction was 100% correct. He was not against Pakistan but against Muslims' division of India.

Why he is an embarassment to the human race? He is not abusing or swearing any one like you are doing in this forum? How do you know that what Niden and co is reading? tumhain koi ilham ho gaya hay? I suggest you avoid personal attacks and avoid violating rules of forum here.

What are your informed sources? Speak clearly what do you want to him to read instead of cursing him?

Re: America taking over Pakistan

First, I would like to add here that this debate is not on history, but rather on the current situation of Pakistan.. I don't claim to know much of the history, but atleast I can see what is happening...

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As to the dollar cheques and DVDs - how did your friend know they were taleban? and there have been public cases of al qaeda training foreigners and paying them / funding them with dollars. Al Qaeda had to fund foreign terror operations with dollars - example the woring of dollars to Mhd Atta
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Are you trying to tell me that Talibans are non-muslims? cause the guy they caught was a non-muslim..

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But know the difference in motives for American action - it is not to grab Pakistan and control it but to ensure terrorism does not have a base there.
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Do you know that Israel has always considered Pakistan to be the greatest threat of all?? During Zia-ul-Haqs era, Israel intended to bomb the nuclear plant in Pakistan but it gave up its plan after realizing the spirit that Pakistani pilots had here... And do you not agree that whatever America does, it is solely in the interest of the Jews?? Do you see some connection here?

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Emile you aren an embarassment to the human race. Either learn to read - and by that I mean informed sources not what Niden and co read - or shut it.
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Lastly, I would like to say that such sentences cannot shut it.. If you have some factual solid information that you would like to add, I welcome you.. but by saying such things u are only embarassing yourself!

Kerry Lugar bill hasn't changed, what good is a piece of paper with obama's signature on it? Nut case.

More and more it looks like Amrika and englistan have chosen Zardari and his scums to "do more" then Mushy and sellout Pakistan with this NRO law.

The dude who doesn't see why Amrika wouldn't want to control Pakistan needs to take a look at the global strategic map again.

CM, instead of Emile, I think you'll save yourself a lot of shame by following that advise. Emile is at least exploring and using his own brian. You're just espousing unconnected hate-filled impotent nasties in every thread with no relevance whatsoever to the topic.