Re: Altaf hussain Updates | Granted Pak Passport
^ polite names, If you consider what these people have been up to. Lets agree to disagree here. :)
Just give you a very very minute example.
The way Maryam Nawaz Shareef was admitted to King Edward Medical College, she would have been convicted and at least fined heavily for it in any civilized country. This is the 'least harmful' thing I could think of about what these people do to my country.
Agree to disagree. :)
Re: Altaf hussain Updates | Granted Pak Passport
BTW: Anyone has info on any formal complains against AH by Imran Farooq wife or family?
Re: Altaf hussain Updates | Granted Pak Passport
I don't think they have enough evidence against Altaf Hussain for the murder of Imran Farooq, but there is enough evidence to convict him of money laundering. Altaf Hussain was in police custody for more than 7 hours (not 9), even in hospital he was in police custody. I think he was in custody for close to 72 hours.
In a criminal case the burden of proof is greater and in a high profile case police would want to take their time and cover every angle. There will be other people involved as well and they would also need to be investigated.
Not 72 hours, but 9 hours, as hospital time is not counted in UK as part of custody.
As for money laundry, it is obvious that Altaf and his team must have claimed that none belong to Altaf but he is just keeper of party money (unlike property and money in Nawaz and Zardari name, that they claim it is theirs). Further, Altaf and his team must have claimed that money was either collected in UK on behalf of party or came from Pakistan sent by party for safe investment or UK expenses.
Now, police have to prove that money belongs to Altaf hussain and he is not just keeper, plus origin of money is outside UK and acquired illegally … and even then it would be party (MQM) and not Altaf Bhai that would get booked for money laundry … unless MQM comes out and say that money do not belong to them.
So, now you can see, how difficult (rather impossible) it would be to prove that money was acquired by Altaf Hussain illegally in Pakistan (Altaf was not even in Pakistan nor held any post in Pakistan where he could acquire money illegally) … or that money belongs to Altaf Hussain and not party … or that money was acquired illegally in UK … as how can one prove that it was not money donated to party and got accumulated over years (~650000 pounds is not that big a sum) … as I believe there must be many who might say that they have given donation to party themselves.
Question would arise that, why money at home and not in bank, but if claimed that it is personal preference or interest is haram in Islam … hence money at home … how can one prove that money was at home because of its dubious origin?
Note: It is not what police believe, Pakistani believe, or people believe, but it is what can be proven without any doubt in court and convince unbiased jury without doubt, with sufficient credible proof.
Re: Altaf hussain Updates | Granted Pak Passport
According to BBC he was questioned for 7 hours and not 9.
He was formally arrested from his house and taken by the police to Hospital and police guarded him and limited who he could see, that would seem to me to be still in police custody however if you can show some link to state that hospital time is not counted as time in police custody then I would appreciate that. However whether he was in police custody for 1 hour or 72 hours is not relevant. The point is that he has been arrested and has been bailed, and must return to the police station next month.
Whether it is party money or his own money is not the point, the point is that money is being laundered and even if it belongs to the party, Altaf Hussain is the leader of that party and he is involved whether it belongs to the party or is his own. If the money is not being shown in the paperwork and there is no paper trail for the money then the money is laundered.
Re: Altaf hussain Updates | Granted Pak Passport
You can say 72 in sense that while in hospital, police was around, keeping custody. But that time is not included in time police can keep someone in custody for questioning. So, you can say that Altaf was under custody for 72 hours (actually, much more) ... but only 9 hours was questioning hours. When police arrests someone than hours that are counted are questioning hours, not hours in hospital... and that means, police could have kept Altaf Hussain for 48 hours to question, that was extendable to 72 hours ... and in some cases, even more.
I think for 9 hours police may have asked question from Altaf Bhai regarding how much of the money that was found in his house and secretariat (total amount ~£650000) belongs to him personally … or if he owns any property that is entirely his and do not belong to party (they may have asked all this in different ways), but Altaf hussain during 9 hours of questioning may not have budged from his claim that none belongs to him, all belongs to party, and he is just care taker, and whatever he spends from those money, he spends on behalf of party chairman … and properties he uses, that is also because of he being chairman of party.
In the end, police may have realised that in no way they can get confession, hence they granted bail. Actually, I think Police did not release him but granted bail because even though Police could not prove (have no evidence to prove in court, in front of jury), they are going with perception based on propaganda by Pakistani communities, hence they gave bail but letting the investigation continue.
[quote]
Whether it is party money or his own money is not the point, the point is that money is being laundered and even if it belongs to the party, Altaf Hussain is the leader of that party and he is involved whether it belongs to the party or is his own. If the money is not being shown in the paperwork and there is no paper trail for the money then the money is laundered.
[/quote]
It is the point. :) If money belongs to party than chairman of the party cannot be punished, can he?
It is just like, if crime is done by Pakistani than since Pakistanis represent Pakistan, punishment should be given to Prime Minister :)
Bhai, this is UK, not Pakistan. Yahan agar crime Darhi wala karay tou Monchoon walay ko nahi pakartay, chahay Monchoon wala Darhi wala ka baap hee kewn na ho. :)
Waisay, even to prove that party did money laundry would be impossible, as they would claim they got all those money in donation, and got accumulated.
It is just like, mosque management get convicted and punished because they have money in box and they do not know who put them there ... same with political party, as party do not need to know where the money came from in box, unless money is substantial, and £650000 ... (£350,000 in Altaf house and £300,000 in secretariat) cannot be called substantial donation for such a big, well organised party, that have millions of supporters, many well to do and a large number living in west and earning good (most are professionals ... many doctors, accountants, professors, pharmacists, senior managers, businessmen and engineers)
Re: Altaf hussain Updates | Granted Pak Passport
If Altaf Hussain will say that the money belongs to the party, in that case the party will have to prove that it has not laundered the money. Either way Altaf Hussain will be involved. They will have to prove where the money came from, even if they can show where the money came from, even if they can show a paper trail for the money, the next question is has the party declared that money? Have they given a list to the police of donors to the party? have those donors in turn not laundered money?
Re: Altaf hussain Updates | Granted Pak Passport
^^^Please read my earlier posts for your answers. :)
Re: Altaf hussain Updates | Granted Pak Passport
If you are going to say that MQM can raise millions over a weekend, well if that money is paid by a bank transfer or via a cheque then fine, but if that is paid in cash and then it is kept in cash and not banked then you still have a lot of questions to answer, the money could also come from crime.
Re: Altaf hussain Updates | Granted Pak Passport
bhatta khor altaf and his bhatta money, bhatta qaumi movement.
hope he gets the book thrown at him and an example made.
Re: Altaf hussain Updates | Granted Pak Passport
If you are going to say that MQM can raise millions over a weekend, well if that money is paid by a bank transfer or via a cheque then fine, but if that is paid in cash and then it is kept in cash and not banked then you still have a lot of questions to answer, the money could also come from crime.
^^^ If someone is saying that money came from donation to party, and that all was given cash over a year, in donation box, then what is big problem?
Only problem would be, why not in bank? ... Answer is simple, that is, we do not believe that such money should be put in bank ... personal choice.
Now, how can you prove in court in front of jury that ... what is answered is not correct?
Obviously ... no court or jury can punish party chairman (Altaf Hussain) for something that a party (MQM) did.
On the other hand, how can court punish a party for having £650000 in cash and not in bank?
Re: Altaf hussain Updates | Granted Pak Passport
bhatta khor altaf and his bhatta money, bhatta qaumi movement.
hope he gets the book thrown at him and an example made.
Tell Nawaz and Zardari ... and all their party members and supporters that ... leave Bhatta, they have taken over all Pakistan and made it theirs in Bhatta ... now they should leave us and go burn in hell, so that we can live peacefully and get progress. These parties of thugs (PMLN and PPP), they have made fool of Pakistanis for too long now, did all propaganda and said lies from their mouth while looted the country from both hands.
Dou (aur pata nahi katnay aur hain) nay tou suar kay baal bhie sar per uga rakkhay hain, haraam kee kamayee say. Had hay in kay khabbeesiet kee.
[Don't tell me who they are. I don't know them (suar kay baal waloyn ko), do you? :)]
Re: Altaf hussain Updates | Granted Pak Passport
Not 72 hours, but 9 hours, as hospital time is not counted in UK as part of custody.
As for money laundry, it is obvious that Altaf and his team must have claimed that none belong to Altaf but he is just keeper of party money (unlike property and money in Nawaz and Zardari name, that they claim it is theirs). Further, Altaf and his team must have claimed that money was either collected in UK on behalf of party or came from Pakistan sent by party for safe investment or UK expenses.
Now, police have to prove that money belongs to Altaf hussain and he is not just keeper, plus origin of money is outside UK and acquired illegally … and even then it would be party (MQM) and not Altaf Bhai that would get booked for money laundry … unless MQM comes out and say that money do not belong to them.
So, now you can see, how difficult (rather impossible) it would be to prove that money was acquired by Altaf Hussain illegally in Pakistan (Altaf was not even in Pakistan nor held any post in Pakistan where he could acquire money illegally) … or that money belongs to Altaf Hussain and not party … or that money was acquired illegally in UK … as how can one prove that it was not money donated to party and got accumulated over years (~650000 pounds is not that big a sum) … as I believe there must be many who might say that they have given donation to party themselves.
Question would arise that, why money at home and not in bank, but if claimed that it is personal preference or interest is haram in Islam … hence money at home … how can one prove that money was at home because of its dubious origin?
Note: It is not what police believe, Pakistani believe, or people believe, but it is what can be proven without any doubt in court and convince unbiased jury without doubt, with sufficient credible proof.
You are clutching at straws on behalf of Altaf Hussain. The guy has been caught with his pants down. Even if he was arrested for 9 minutes, he still was arrested, which means that the police had something which allowed them to get a warrant for his arrest. OTherwise if it was just questioning, they could have done it at his home.
Its not just about the cash found at his home. His personal account also holds tons of money on which he was questioned. And frankly, he doesnt have any way of proving it was legitimately acquired.
If he claims that all this cash was party donations, then it has to be accounted for, receipts issued, deposited in a bank, and taxes paid. And if the money came from Pakistan, then the method of how it was sent is brought into question. And Im sure MQM was not sending it through Habib Bank. They were sending it through hawala, which makes it a money laundering issue.
Re: Altaf hussain Updates | Granted Pak Passport
^^^ If someone is saying that money came from donation to party, and that all was given cash over a year, in donation box, then what is big problem?
Only problem would be, why not in bank? ... Answer is simple, that is, we do not believe that such money should be put in bank ... personal choice.
Now, how can you prove in court in front of jury that ... what is answered is not correct?
Obviously ... no court or jury can punish party chairman (Altaf Hussain) for something that a party (MQM) did.
On the other hand, how can court punish a party for having £650000 in cash and not in bank?
Fair enough you have donation boxes and people may put £10 or £20 pounds in there, others may just put some change in there. Is that really going to amount to £100,000s I don't think so. It can be disapproved through a good statistician, or through other means.
Sure you don't have to keep the money in the bank, that's your personal choice, but Altaf Hussain has admitted that his bank accounts have been frozen, so surely he has bank accounts and does keep money in there, so it cannot be against his religious beliefs to maintain a bank account.
The burden of proof is beyond reasonable doubt, so it will depend on whether the jury believes Altaf Hussain or the prosecution. If the jury goes with the prosecution then the court can punish Altaf Hussain as he will have been found guilty of money laundering.
Re: Altaf hussain Updates | Granted Pak Passport
What a great discussion... he was questioned for 7 hours, no 9 hours, no 72 hours, no x hours. Great. The fact that he was even "questioned/interrogation" after weeks of prior investigation shows how convinced Scotland Yard is that he has committed a crime. May all criminals whether they belong to MQM, PMLN, PPP or PTI be prosecuted, punished.
Re: Altaf hussain Updates | Granted Pak Passport
Haha how naive of saleem to say that moneywas donated to the party n even if it was lahndered , it was a wrong doing of mqm not altaf ...mind you he had been arrested n released bail.
He cant leave his house after 5 pm
He cant travel outside the city/ country without informing police .
He didnt answer any of the questions related to money laundering....all he said was no comment
Ps.he is in a deep **** this time....its not easy for him to clear each penny...even donations have to be declared like ngos do here....he cant evade this time inshaAllah...baki imran farooq case is pakka n govt of pak will most prolly help them
Re: Altaf hussain Updates | Granted Pak Passport
No , They never did so , Family of chairman Azeem Ahmad Tariq also never did so , They left Pakistan and now living in US .
Re: Altaf hussain Updates | Granted Pak Passport
Tell Nawaz and Zardari ... and all their party members and supporters that ... leave Bhatta, they have taken over all Pakistan and made it theirs in Bhatta ... now they should leave us and go burn in hell, so that we can live peacefully and get progress. These parties of thugs (PMLN and PPP), they have made fool of Pakistanis for too long now, did all propaganda and said lies from their mouth while looted the country from both hands.
Dou (aur pata nahi katnay aur hain) nay tou suar kay baal bhie sar per uga rakkhay hain, haraam kee kamayee say. Had hay in kay khabbeesiet kee.
[Don't tell me who they are. I don't know them (suar kay baal waloyn ko), do you? :)]
Looks like your mental imbalance still persists even after release of AH. What this has to do with PPP or PML(N) for arrest of AH by British government on money laundering? Do you think there is any relation to your rhetoric?
Re: Altaf hussain Updates | Granted Pak Passport
No , They never did so , Family of chairman Azeem Ahmad Tariq also never did so , They left Pakistan and now living in US .
And that is what I thought.
How is it that immediate relatives of those who were killed have not come out blaming AH?
Re: Altaf hussain Updates | Granted Pak Passport
And that is what I thought.
How is it that immediate relatives of those who were killed have not come out blaming AH?
phir aap ko koi aisee khabar milti "na maloom afraad ne .....", "dacaity ke doraan ....."
Re: Altaf hussain Updates | Granted Pak Passport
phir aap ko koi aisee khabar milti "na maloom afraad ne .....", "dacaity ke doraan ....."
I know what you are saying Kaptan ji.
But at least some hint, some direction and even when like AP said Azeem Ahmad Tariq family has moved out of country why no one ever talks about AH being responsible?
Wife of Imran Farooq is/was not in Pakistan, maybe her family is but why did she have to show such support for AH in the video I posted. Why not just be quiet/silent?
On the other hand we have no statement from Imran Farooq (that I know of) which showed any animosity towards AH before he died.