Alright guys and gals - There is a new circus in town "APDM"

[Faisal]

Re: Alright guys and gals - There is a new circus in town “APDM”

@ravage

the flaw in your argument is that we have endless corruption now too. even if things go back to NS/BB after mush goes and we have a representative elections based government atleast that puts the onus of getting good leaders on one’s people and wed have a system that has produced credible leadership in time everywhere else in the world, no reason to suppose that eventually it wouldnt start working for us too, even if we get hammered for a few years.

You have a good point, but I don’t think it is a flaw in the argument. Its the dearth of good leadership. My problem with NS/BB is not solely focused on corruption, but primarily that they were bad leaders. They didn’t take the country anywhere (except down and down). Re: corruption in Musharraf’s administration, I look at it more objectively. I have not followed Pak newspapers or tv channels very closely for the last couple of years. Based on my discussion with people and reading random articles/blogs/posts my guess is that there are no severe corruption allegations against Musharraf or his family, but (and this is a big big BUT) the leadership of military (especially former military officers) have monopolized many aspects of civil institutions and have kinda taken over our civil structure.

I am not sure if this is already posted on GS, but Click here] to see a huge list. Far be it for me to be anti-military, but this kind of blantant take over of civilian and professional institutions by our military establishment does not bode well for the country. Call it nepotism, or call it whatever, I consider it corruption of the highest degree.

[ravage]

Re: Alright guys and gals - There is a new circus in town "APDM"

^ i think the difference between the civilian and military governments is that of personal greed and institutional greed. NS and BB were content to appropriate whatever they could for themselves, and they could get enough without needing to develop the country. The army consumes much larger chunks of Pakistan and for it to gain from that it does develop those sectors/industries quite efficiently. one reason why DHA schemes are pretty good.

there has been better economic management of the country, just from observation of the competance of economic managers now and ten years ago without any deep insight. Because the army owns so much of the country it has an interest in seeing it develop. it does not have any stake in ensuring that the development benefits everyone though.

i guess a parallel to American democracy would be the Army and the big corporations. only here there is no real democracy and the Corporation has tanks.

[system]

Re: Alright guys and gals - There is a new circus in town "APDM"

Instead of giving up on democracy, we should be looking towards a system where everyone is accountable in one way or the other so that no one thinks as a king of himself/herself.

That might to be hard to do.. One of the probs with Pak system is that the party head is the owner, guardian, and defining face of each party..
Can anyone inagine the PPP without a Bhutto at its front?!?!
We elect personalities not parties in Pakistan.
Even worse, devotion of the party workers for their leaders borders on the obsene... In Karach, life comes to a stand still as soons as pir Altaf Hussain is on the phone... And these arent even the worst of them.
I mean can there ever be a day where like the Labor party in England, we see a party change their Prime Minister candidtate? A day where party leaders aent Gods but equal amongst many?!?!

[system]

Re: Alright guys and gals - There is a new circus in town "APDM"

Some things will have changed from the past if BB does get elected...
1. She has the support of the Americans, which wasnt there in her initial goes... With sanctions and all...

1. The deal would Mush might mean the Army isnt their to antagonize things...

2. Support of these two groups and the absense of NS, would mean we wont have the same dirty politics as in the past.

3. There is a control system in palace to make sure she doesnt get out of control like the first time... I for one think the Supremem Court is doing exceptional work these days, and is assreting its independance wisely, which will have sobering effect on BB.

4. With the deal, this would also mean getting in bed with the likes of the MQM in Sindh, which have generally not gotten along with BB or the PPP.

5. Economy needs some structural changes, but there is a relatively stable base for her to build on the economic front... So how bad can her govt screw things up now>?!?!