Allegations Against Ahmediyya

[d-tox.ed]

Thank you for joining the forum and enlighting us with your very first post in religious thread.

All I have to say is that if you had paid more attention to the thread from begining then you would have realised that I made a post on this particular issue of Ahmadies having incorrect Kalima on very first page.

You may view the bunch of videos on this topic and you can view them by clicking the following link: http://www.paklinks.com/gs/6524692-post2.html

Now the question arises why am I not replying to some particular points you raised from a book of Promissed Messiah0 (A.S) son’s book? This is becuase the generalised view is that we dont follow the same Kalima as other Muslims do. I say its a lie and blunt lie and whosoever says is lying.

Even if I try to give you full explanation of things in writing you may perhaps bring extracts from another book. This circle of blame game will continue. Your allegation is that we have different Kalima. You say we mean something else when we recite Kalima. I say this is wrong and incorrect perception. End of the story.

Now few comments for your post:

@TanSen

When Ahmadis repeat the Kalima they implicitly include their false prophet Mirza Ghulam Ahmad when they say ‘Muhammad is the messenger of Allah’.

Be respectful towards a religious figure. This is the forum policy. (I love this forum to be honest.)

Extracts from Kalimat-ul-Fasal by Hadhrat Sahibzada Mirza Bashir Ahmad.

(Mirza Bashir Ahmad was one of the sons of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani. The book Kalimat-ul-Fasal was published during the Khalifat of Mirza Mahmood Ahmad, his elder brother, with his approval. Ahmadis believe that Mirza Mahmood Ahmad was the promised reformer of Islam and that his coming was prophesied by their prophet)

“The fool does not realise that ‘Muhammad is the messenger of Allah’ was put in the Kalima because he is the crowning head of the prophets and the Khatam-un-nabiyyin. By mentioning his name all other prophets are implicitly included. There is no need to mention the name of everyone separately. Admittedly, the coming of the Promised Messiah has created one difference, and that is that before his coming the significance of the words ‘Muhammad is the messenger of Allah’ included (besides the Holy Prophet) only the prophets before the Holy Prophet Muhammad, but after the coming of the Promised Messiah one more prophet was added to the significance of these words. … In other words, the same Kalima is still to be used for admission into Islam, the difference merely being that the coming of the Promised Messiah has added one more messenger to the significance of the words ‘Muhammad is the messenger of Allah’.”

The original can be found here :
www.alislam.org/urdu/pdf/Kalma-tul-Fasal.pdf
However it is in Urdu. The book has only recently appeared on their website.

What would be your point quoting this extract? Also can you provide the page number for this in your next post?

This proves that it is not the case that Ahmadis have the same Kalima as Sunnis etc. If they believe the above why don’t ahmadis stop trying to mis-lead muslims and change their Kalimah to “There is no god but Allah and Mirza Ghulam Ahmad is his messenger”? That way when they say Mirza Ghulam Ahmad in the before mentioned blasphemy they can claim that they are including all prior prophets and they don’t have to corrupt the original version.

How does this prooves that? Please explain your point in more details.

Other juicy extracts from this book have been copy and pasted below:

I like the way you said juicy extracts. Lets see how juicy are they?

“In this chapter some Quranic verses will be mentioned which show that Allah has made it obligatory to declare faith in all messengers and has called as kafir those who do not consider it necessary to believe in all prophets.” (p. 107)

I havent cross refereced this with the book but is it not believe of 1.2 billion Muslims that rejecting even one prophet will make you Kafir?

“Thus, according to this verse, every such person who believes in Moses but not in Jesus, or believes in Jesus but not in Muhammad (peace be upon him), or believes in Muhammad but not in the Promised Messiah, is not only a kafir but a staunch kafir and is excluded from the fold of Islam.” (p. 110)

According to you the coming Messiah or Jesus (A.S) will be a Prophet. We say Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad (A.S) is also a Prophet. The same prophet whom Hadhrat Muhammad (SAW) fortold. Hence rejecting a Prophet of God is also a Kafir.

“It is a basic point that as the Promised Messiah is a messenger and prophet of God, he therefore has all the rights that other prophets have, and to deny him is the same as to deny any other prophet of Allah.” (p. 119)

Again my above two replies should be sufficient for this quoted statement.

“This objection shows the lack of knowledge of the objector. We find that the Promised Messiah has permitted us to have only that relationship with non-Ahmadis which the Holy Prophet Muhammad permitted with Christians.” (p. 169)

I am sure you have read the book and knowledge of Islam. Christians rejected the prophethood of Holy Prophets SAW as you rejected the prophethood of Hadhrat Mirza Ghulam Ahmad Qadiani (A.S). I am sure we can add more into this topic but wont be necessary.

“In this chapter some Quranic verses will be mentioned which show that Allah has made it obligatory to declare faith in all messengers and has called as kafir those who do not consider it necessary to believe in all prophets.”

So what are you trying to proove by quoting this?

“… If you say we are permitted to marry their (other Muslims’) daughters, I say we are also permitted to marry daughters of Christians. If you ask, why do we say salam to non-Ahmadis, the answer is that it is proved from Hadith that sometimes the Holy Prophet Muhammad even said salam to Jews in response to them. … Therefore, in every way the Promised Messiah has separated us from other Muslims, and there is no relation which Islam requires exclusively between Muslims which has not been prohibited to us (with other Muslims).” (p. 169–170)

If you read the few lines ahead after the quoting extract you will see the answer as well in the same book.

“The objection arises here as to why the marriage of a woman who is an Ahmadi is not dissolved if her husband is a non-Ahmadi, or why is the inheritance of a deceased Ahmadi allowed to his non-Ahmadi son when a kafir is not allowed to inherit from a Muslim.” (p. 170)

Indeed read few lines ahead to read the answer.

“As matters of inheritance and dissolution of marriage fall under the law of the government, this is why the Promised Messiah wrote nothing about these. If he had possessed governmental power, he would have issued the same orders in these matters as well.” (p. 170)

You cannot create a state within a state with Islamic Laws with Non-Islamic Goverment. This is called Gaddaari. Goverment Law always supercedes Religious Laws.