"All knowing"

[kakaballi]

Re: “All knowing”

@ajazali

Thanks for this link

I am sorry but, just because you say it is most relevant doesnt make it one..

Then perhaps our definitions of relevance do not match. We leave it there.

@ajazali

I have all the reasons to avoid it, because it is based on something that is yet to (cannot) be validated. And, on top of it, you are questioning it as a believer…

A believer cannot question? The way ‘believers’ patronize those who question the beliefs makes me less of a believer though.

@ajazali

I being a programmer myself know whenever I write a program it is predetermined and implies ‘foreknowledge’. It is a weak example as foreknowledge in this case is associated with non-living objects but, you still can assume that I would know the behavior of my program in ‘all’ condition, because I have developed it myself…

If you program a software where objects in the software behave in a way that you determined at the inception, would it be fair to judge their behavior at the ‘end’ of execution the program?

@ajazali

Problem with your reasoning is, you are arguing between believers and disbelievers positions and you switch the stance when countered. As a believer your paradox implies ‘contradiction’ for you, and on behalf of disbeliever your paradox is based on assumption. Now, you sort out your position and select one you like to continue argue with. You should choose one, either you can ask the question as believer or on the behalf of disbeliever, both should be argued differently and distinctively. This is wrong approach which is followed in this thread.

There is a whole spectrum of beliefs among ‘believer and disbelievers’. My ‘beliefs’ if you will, can be summarized in post #55. Why force someone to choose sides? I am not questioning existance of God. I am questioning the qualities of the God that people attribute to Him.

@ajazali

This is based on you assumption that foreknowledge implies predetermination.

No. Foreknowledge of things that CANNOT BE CHANGED NO MATTER WHAT implies predetermination. If you call it assumption, that’s your option. If God;

1. knows everything that is going to happen, and
2. those things cannot be changed whatever you do,

it simply means someone (most probably God) has predetermined them. If they were not predetermined, they could be changed.

@ajazali

This way you are undermining the God. Not all knowing implies not all powerful, not all powerful implies that there must be something more powerful than God or equally powerful as God, which is contradiction.

I am not ‘undermining’ God. I am simply saying that what has not yet happened does not exist and God not knowing something that doesn’t exist is not a big deal.

Still avoiding the question: Is it fair to punish me for something I do that I was already decreed to do even before my birth and I had no choice but to do it?