They’re saying Easwar Allah therae Naam!
TomSawyer
Its true muslims are not allowed to make idols, pictures or symbols to pray to.. That was the reason Muhammad (PBUH) strictly prohibited his image or picture to made .. tyhe reason was that muslims might make deity of him andtry to pray to him instead of God.. there are no images in mosques.. infact mosque was built just as gathering place for shelter from weather.. muslims can pray anywhere and in open too..
Though Lajawab's calling others idols as false is his own mind.. we should pray as muslims to allah instead of judging others faith as right or wrong.. this can certainly lead to intolerance..
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Degas: *
TomSawyer
Its true muslims are not allowed to make idols, pictures or symbols to pray to.. That was the reason Muhammad (PBUH) strictly prohibited his image or picture to made .. tyhe reason was that muslims might make deity of him andtry to pray to him instead of God.. there are no images in mosques.. infact mosque was built just as gathering place for shelter from weather.. muslims can pray anywhere and in open too..
Though Lajawab's calling others idols as false is his own mind.. we should pray as muslims to allah instead of judging others faith as right or wrong.. this can certainly lead to intolerance..
[/QUOTE]
hidus also dont have to pray to idols if they want. they can be even aethist if they want or pray in mosque if they want .
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by TomSawyer: *
They're saying Easwar Allah therae Naam!
[/QUOTE]
are you sure? or just putting words in their mouth?
Because the idol is a representation of an entity…
Allah :swt: is very very possessive…Allah :swt: has Pride and will not tolerate something else included in His Devotion…That is why He can forgive anything, but He will not tolerate sharing His dominion with anyone else…And anyone who does will have to answer Him in the end…
People, throw away your idols and worship the one God who neither shares power nor is subservient to anything…
Even if the whole universe turned against Him in hatred, it would not matter to Him an atom worth of difference for nothing can touch Him…
He holds great Promise for those who believe in His Oneness and Torment for those who divide His Devotion with other entities…
No one escapes Him…
From Him we came, and to Him we shall return…
god is above this superficial differences he allows many ways to reach him otherwise he would not create such a diversity of beleifs.
What a jealous God you have. Surely the entity that created earth and the heavens is not so petty to be so full of jealousy and pride. Those are human emotions and are usually considered sinful.
This contradicts what you just said. I thought he was full of pride and will not tolerate something else in His Devotion? Surely such a jealous God would care if the whole universe turned against him. Doesn’t the Quran note the punishments God put upon His people when they did turn against Him?
Jealousy from what? 
Jealousy is an emotion which usually happens when you have a foe or an adversary…Nothing in the case of Allah :swt:…And yes, He is very possessive…He created you, He made you, how do you think He feels when you bow down to something else…
As far as human emotions go, isn’t love a human emotion? Yet we go around saying ‘god is love god is love’…
The Bible proclaims man being in the image of god…You think literally?
Actually it doesn’t do Allah :swt: a grain of sand benefit or a grain of sand harm if we all became His enemies…Chances are if we are penitent enough, He might forgive us that transgression as well…
However, if you attribute anything in worship besides Him, man o man…That He will not tolerate…
[quote]
What a jealous God you have. Surely the entity that created earth and the heavens is not so petty to be so full of jealousy and pride. Those are human emotions and are usually considered sinful.
[/quote]
Uh huh and I have to take the name of Jesus in order to be "saved". Care to shed some light there??
Laj, when a child goes to day care, the first thing it learns is to share. When a sibling is borne and the kid doesn't learn to share we call it siblimg rivalry. How do you say then say Allah can be given to such base emotions?
How do you translate from Mohamad didn't want his picture taken to Allah cannot be in objects? Surely you're not suggesting Mohamad and Allah are the same?
All muslims turn to meeca's direction to pray. And here we have someone claiming directions don't matter.
If Kaaba is only a stone structure that people just go around in circles, then why do they bother coming all the way to mecca to go around that particular stone structure?
My point as you will kindly note, is not to object to any of your practices and beliefs. But when you say things like non-muslims should be taught the error of their ways in praying to idols, that sounds like you want to convert. And that right we don't give to you or to Allah.
And we are certainly not talking about a child going to day school..We are talking about Allah :swt:…He doesn’t like to share his Majesty, so there is nothing we can do about it unless He wishes it to be…
I told you, he will not share divinity with anything…Call it jealous, vengeful, whatever…The power is His and he doesn’t share…That’s that…
Couple of things…Unlike the Christian ideology, Muslims are forbidden to ‘convert’ anyone…What the Muslims do is ‘convey’…We convey the message of Allah :swt: the rest is up to you…
As for your question why we go around the kaaba, it’s because our Holy Prophet :saw: did so…That’s all…He prayed towards it, so do we…Nothing more…
Apart from that where did you hear or see a Muslim praying to Kaaba…
…‘towards’ and ‘to’ are two different meaning words…The Kaaba is a stone structure towards which we pray…That’s all…And we circumambulate it because the Holy Prophet :saw: did…Nothing more, nothing less…
This religious debate has no place here
But there is no doubt that Islam prohibits worshipping of or towards idols. In fact many mosques won't even allow you to wear a shirt with a figure of a living thing on it while praying. And Tom, in my expereince Indian muslims follow these rules closer than Pakistanis since most of our religious thought on the subcontinent come from India (Deoband)
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by elahi: *
This religious debate has no place here
But there is no doubt that Islam prohibits worshipping of or towards idols. In fact many mosques won't even allow you to wear a shirt with a figure of a living thing on it while praying. And Tom, in my expereince Indian muslims follow these rules closer than Pakistanis since most of our religious thought on the subcontinent come from India (Deoband)
[/QUOTE]
what is the punishement if a muslim found praying to" other god"in pakistan?
God does have foes and adversaries. They are not His equal, but they exist. Why does He not give a grain of sand harm if we all became His enemies but yet He is so very possessive? Is He not possessive of all His creations or only those who pray to Him while praying to something (someone) else?
I believe God is love. He is not angry, spiteful, jealous, possessive, vengeful or prideful. Those are weak traits for man, not for God. Love is the perfect emotion or trait, so the perfect being would be the embodiment of it and not with the petty and useless emotions of man.
When I say “your God”, I am not talking about the “Muslim” God. I wish more here could speak from what their hearts tell them instead of scholars. I assume you don’t speak for Islam, but for yourself. We all have differing interpretations, as it should be. Problems arise when a group tries to make a whole religion and all its followers of one monolith viewpoint. That can only breed violence. How often do you hear of one Christian denomination claiming another is not Christian? And I don’t take much of the Old Testament literally.
I think it would do Him harm if we all became His enemies. Why would His main concern be that we don’t worship something or someone along side him? Is that what will fulfill this entity? (As perfect as He is, He would have to have to be fulfilled). How can this be the one thing He won’t tolerate? Surely the advancement of His people into a loving, caring world full of those who helped each other instead of fought each other while treating all His creations with respect would be a higher priority to Him. Overplaying the jealousy in Him belittles Him.
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mufakkar: *
Uh huh and I have to take the name of Jesus in order to be "saved". Care to shed some light there??
[/QUOTE]
While I believe Jesus was sent by God to show mankind what is possible in all of us, an example of what all men can aspire to be, and probably the most perfect man to have ever lived - I do not believe one has to take the name of Jesus in order to be "saved". Take whatever name you choose, as long as you aspire to the ideals Jesus preached.
[quote]
While I believe Jesus was sent by God to show mankind what is possible in all of us, an example of what all men can aspire to be, and probably the most perfect man to have ever lived - I do not believe one has to take the name of Jesus in order to be "saved". Take whatever name you choose, as long as you aspire to the ideals Jesus preached.
[/quote]
...and I believe that the moon is made of blue cheese. that doesn't make any difference. You commented on religious beliefs of Muslims and I am saying that the same critique can apply to Christians calling upon Jesus and I asked why that was.
All, this thread has delved too deep into Gods, and I have my part in letting that happen. The intention was / is to show Hindus and Muslims can and do get along, particularly in India.
I think this is an imprtant message particularly for pakistanis since they have heard of the Godhra carnage that has overshaddowed their lives.
All outward forms and rituals aside, all religions including Hindusim believe in the one absolute supreme known by different names. And all of us understand and misunderstand our respective religions. You can find good logic for proving one or many Gods. The point is not get bigoted about it.
Any way - thanks, it was fun.
Ganpathi Bappa Moria
Sorry, Tom. I do not wish to help derail your thread. I too think it was an important message to post. There is no reason in the world why people of differing faiths cannot respect each other and even attend each others rituals. It can only increase understanding and tolerance.
I would like to respond to this post however
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by mufakkar: *
...and I believe that the moon is made of blue cheese. that doesn't make any difference. You commented on religious beliefs of Muslims and I am saying that the same critique can apply to Christians calling upon Jesus and I asked why that was.
[/QUOTE]
As I already said, I was not commenting on Islam, but on an individual's interpretation of God. I gave my interepretation that accepting Jesus as Christ and saviour is not the only path to righteousness but following his ideals is one path to get there. But I still don't think that the Christian belief of salvation through Jesus can be compared to calling God possessive and prideful as He considers co-worship the worst possible sin. That would convey more of a concern for His pride than for the development of His creation.
Re: Re: All is not lost - Hindu Muslim Unity still rules
[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by digitalsurgeon: *
please don't call these peopl muslims call them hindus or what ever u want but they are not muslims, they broke the very foundation of isalm !! there is no GOD but ALLAH !!
[/QUOTE]
how do you know if these Muslims are really praying to this idol?
Re: Re: All is not lost - Hindu Muslim Unity still rules
lot of common people mix religious practises and it is not against local \laws .
even whabism is the result of people practiseing pre-islmic culture.
Muhammad ibn Abd al Wahhab was concerned with the way the people of Najd engaged in practices he considered polytheistic, such as praying to saints; making pilgrimages to tombs and special mosques; venerating trees, caves, and stones; and using votive and sacrificial offerings. He was also concerned by what he viewed as a laxity in adhering to Islamic law and in performing religious devotions, such as indifference to the plight of widows and orphans, adultery, lack of attention to obligatory prayers, and failure to allocate shares of inheritance fairly to women.
http://lcweb2.loc.gov/cgi-bin/query/r?frd/cstdy:@field(DOCID+sa0044)