It is impressing to read some where that Q, one of the music journals has added Junoon’s name to its list of the biggest band in the world. Although an independent confirmation of this deification has yet to be made. Ali’s word for it…. Ali Azmat: It is true… they have. Salman has a copy of that magazine with him. There was also an article about us in a recent issue of the Billboard. They too have given us a good review.
Your fame has, quite evidently reached the farthest corners of the earth. Have you been singing extra loud then?
Ali Azmat: Actually, we’d held a press conference during our New York concert … that was in December last year … and these guys were among those invited.
And what is it that Q looks for in a band to confer it with such glory?
Ali Azmat: I guess the quality of music and the level of accomplishments. What else there could be?
Do you think that you are one of the biggest bands in the world?
Ali Azmat: Not really yaar. Never!
Is that humility or do you genuinely believe that you have still some way to go before you reach that milestone?
Ali Azmat: Obviously the latter yaar. I am not a singer, singer you know…when it comes to the brass tacks of singing! I just emote up there, that’s it. I am not a good singer otherwise. There are far too many gaps in my understanding of singing.
But now that you have been put up on a pedestal, don’t you think it was time you went about filling up those gaps?
Ali Azmat: Yeah, that’s exactly what I am doing nowadays. Like, since the last one month we’ve been practicing overtime … God man, I can tell you I haven)t practiced in my whole life as much as I have done in the past thirty days. But that’s what it’s like once you’re put up on the pedestal … you are stuck with that s–t … and you feel that you have somehow to live up to it … well not exactly live up to it … you know, kind of justify it. Plus, the audience out there expects you to deliver … to prove that you are worthy of the honor that you’re carrying like a tattoo on your forehead. Their expectations seem to grow in direct proportion to your glorification and there is no way you are not going to live up to those expectations. You have to deliver. Which means that you are working under a lot of pressure and so there’s no way you can sit back comfortably and gloat over being called the best band in the world.
But so far, junoon has set its own standards…done its thing. I don’t remember any of you ever having about up to expectations before. Why this apprehension now?
Ali Azmat: We’re not apprehensive, we are a little too mindful, a little too aware of this sudden position that we find ourselves in. And it’s not a very comfortable position to be in. Trust me, it isn’t. The stigma attached to that position … the stigma of being labeled a 'Sufi rock band’s … that is not something easy to deal with.
You actually feel that your Sufi-Rock identity is a stigma!
Ali Azmat: Yeah!
So what you’re basically saying here is that you would rather not be identified as a Sufi-Rock band!
Ali Azmat: Yeah, absolutely! You see, the thing is that what we had started out with was rock. ‘Talash’ was funk rock with a little bit of eastern folk, ‘Inquilaab’, on the other hand was folk and rock though it was more rhythm oriented. While we were planning ‘Azaadi’, we decided that, given the s — y conditions we were having to record in … you know, bad studios and stuff. It wasn’t the easiest thing to carry drums everywhere and record the album. Earlier we had realized, from our tours of the US that the tabla, which we had played in a number of instrumentals and later, with songs there, blended in quite nicely with the western rock. And it was quite well received by the Americans. So, we decided that we’d replace the drum sets with the table … and go acoustic … using the acoustic and the bass guitars. No keyboards, no sugar, no spice…‘Azaadi’ had nothing of that sort in it, no elaborate paint work … just basic music … melodies and songs … all kept very simple! That was there and then, the poetry we’d used was Sufi poetry … that’s what Allama lqbal’s poetry is in a way. And with all that in one place … somewhere down the line somebody remarked that it was a concept album … although we had never intended it to be one. We were not trying to be a Sufi band or a rock band or grunge or metal or whatever. These categories are more for classifying albums in a record store … to arrange them on the shelves. Or, they are meant to be used for marketing the album, by the releasing labels.
But, from the videos and your live performances, - it appeared somehow as if the music was indeed an extension of your own belief system…one that was nurtured by the Sufi tradition. I mean., there seemed to be too much of a personal involvement there and it was all very visible. Was all that merely an act then? Wasn’t there ever any spiritual connection from your side ever?
Ali Azmat: Of course there was … perhaps not the sort you thought it was. You-see, when it comes to most things in life, Salman, myself, Brian, Ashique and Malcolm … we share very little in common. What makes it fun to work together is the spiritual connection. Brian follows the Christian faith, I come from what you, might call a school of non-believers … I mean, I believe in God but that’s just about it … so I don’t really know what you’d call me. Salman is a staunch Muslim. He says his namaz (prayers) and … (mentions, as a matter of habit, in his conversation) khuda nay yeh kia aor khuda woh kary ga . So does Brian … in his own catholic way. But where we connect together…that’s definitely a spiritual plane … beyond what is worldly…more’ than what is religion. Otherwise we could not have made it through all the s — t we had to go through in the last eight years. There’s definitely a lot of spiritual connection there that helps us stick to our vision so that we don’t really give a s–t as to how unfavorable the situation becomes around us.
Though you’d still not be tagged with a specific identity that defines your work?
Ali Azmat: That’s right. When we make music, we do not follow a particular manifesto that makes it mandatory for us to do this or that kind of music. We don’t! I mean, you never know, our next album might be techno oriented.
You don’t seriously mean that, do you?
Ali Azmat: Of course I do!
But don’t you think that having carved a certain identity for yourself … and we are t about a carving on the global scale here…you should be careful in how you plan your next move?
Ali Azmat: You see, in music what is important is that who is doing the music more than what is being done. Our sound is thus defined by what we do. junoon’s sound ’ will always remain that…Junoon’s sound. It’s all a matter of expression. How Dave Matthew’s band plays the acoustic guitars and how ours plays it will be different … like I said, it’s all a matter of expression.
So basically you aren’t sure what direction your music, is going to take from here?
Ali Azmat: That’s right. We have no intention of limiting ourselves to any one type of music.
Which also means that the quest for commercial success is nowhere near nuclear to your career?
Ali Azmat: That’s right.
Is this your own prerogative you speak of here or, are your views reflective of the band’s collective ideology?
Ali Azmat: Oh? I very much speak on behalf of all three of us. You might find this amusing but we have these meetings every third or so week when we sit down together and talk about all kinds of things … like marketing plans for the album or how we are going to handle an upcoming concert … things like that. And we do that also at the outset of our rehearsal schedule … to make sure which numbers we are going to perform, in what sequence so that nothing is left to chance. What I mean to say is that we are pretty much in tune to each other and so, I know it for a fact how Brian and Salman feel on this subject!
All of which sounds very well, except that none of it sounds like it was coming from those bracketed with the biggest in their profession … all this talk about not having interest in commercial success and the wanton desire to change tracks completely. I’m sure you’re well aware that the consequences of either strategy could prove to be most unfavorable for junoon’s further progression in the international soundscapes!
Ali Azmat: Listen, we do not wish to OD on our success, OK. That’s exactly what will happen were we to sit complacently and pat our backs on what we have accomplished so far. We have accomplished a lot… I realize that … we all do. Today, we aren’t comparing ourselves to Ali Haider or Sajjad Ali anymore. You may see our music to be on par with that of Rock Machine or Indus Creed. That’s fine maybe but, to us even that are putting limits on what we are capable of doing. This might smell of arrogance but that’s the way it is. We are in a different league altogether now. We have already cut an international record deal with EMI Arabia but, we are looking even beyond that … a deal with EMI UK … which is, as you can imagine a big deal indeed. They are willing to book us producers who produce singers like U2 and Michael Brooks. So, do you see where we are headed? Things are happening for us and we are in control of our situation every inch of the way. What we also need to do right now, in order to keep up with the mileage, is to shift gears … which is what I had meant by what I had said earlier.
Does it s as ironic to you then that, as you cover one milestone after the other in the outside world, at home as many speed-breakers seem to pop up in your way. I’ve heard that the government isn’t issuing NOCs even for your concerts anymore. How does it feel to have come to be the ‘banned band’ in you own country!
Ali Azmat: When ‘Khudi’ and ‘Sayonee’ got banned, one after the other … six, seven months ago … there was a great deal of speculation from a number of quarters that we had perhaps come to the end of our rope. Do you know what we said at that time. We said f–k it man! What difference does it make. Agar aik rasta band ho gaia hai tou hazar rastay khul jain gai (it’s not as if it were a dead end and we’ll, for sure find away out). And that’s exactly what happened……
So your belief in yourself takes precedence over your belief in fate?
Ali Azmat: Yeah!
But wouldn’t you say that fate … that element of plain’o1 luck…has played a significant role in your success?
Ali Azmat: Our hard work is what has gotten us where we are today. Real hard work. We are the only band in Pakistan that f ---- g travels so much … we tour all round the year and we play more than any other band here. We rehearse every day, we record every show that we do, every single one of them and later, we sit and watch the recording … aur phir aik dosray par lanat phitkar hotee hai (and do a critical reviewing of each other’s work) … someone would say… yeh Ida kia hai tou nay? (What on earth have you done?) You are f ----- g singing flat or that you’re singing sharps. It is all so that we can tighten those loose ends…so that when we are performing, we know well that there is going to be censure in the end, if that performance is anything but first class. That is how hard we have worked in order to get to this point in our career. Not that we see our success as anything spectacularly big … OK, so we are the biggest selling act in South-East Asia but at this point and time it really doesn’t mean anything (to us). Like I said, we don’t intend to OD on these double platinum successes … kay hum nay bana lia hai jo banana tha, abb isee kou bait kay khaao (and be content with what we have made of ourselves and live off what we have made) … our eyes are set on something much bigger.
By the way, have you made enough to live comfortably Off it?
Ali Azmat: No not really yaar.
I just saw a brand new Civic parked downstairs ! It’s yours isn’t it!!
Ali Azmat: Yeah, but that’s it yaar. I had barely enough money to buy myself that car.
That’s it!
Ali Azmat: Of course. I didn’t have a car … since the last two years.
I was expecting to find at least two chests filled with hard currency!
Ali Azmat: Yaar, musician kee zindagee may paisa kabhee nahi aata! (A musician hardly ever makes much money). He might make three lakhs in a given month but then he might not make even a quarter of it in the next three..
But you must be saving a considerable amount on the taxes. I mean, the CBR isn’t quite likely to find out how much money you are from all those foreign tours!
Ali Azmat: What are you talking about? Of course we pay taxes. Whatever money we are paid, it comes into the country through banks. And the ex-chequer gives us our share after taking his out.
So if they are acquiring forex through your act outside the country, that acts with in the country?
Ali Azmat: Well, because … they are idiots. It’s very obviously politically motivated … and when political interest is at stake, economics take a back seat. It was the Benazair government that put the ban on us the first time … over the song 'Ahtesab. You see, every generation has its own battles to fight and no two generations fight it in the same battlefield. My father for example wanted to explore his talents as a photographer. No sooner had he made the intention known to the family that he found himself facing a barrage of criticism. When he told them that he wanted to act, my grandmother was the first to throw a fit. They could not imagine that a son of theirs could even harbor in him such unbecoming a desire. He regrets it to this day not having fought back for his rights. I stood up for my rights. My father backed me all the way. He told me to got out there and explore all the talent that I love. I left home because I knew that my ambition was not acceptable for my family. I didn’t give up. That was my counter culture. Now I wish to help the next generation to bring about its counter-culture. And remember, counter does not mean different - it mean in opposition., in contrast our counterculture looks distinctly different from the one that was before which had not been tampered with in many decades. We had to uproot evils that had come to be accepted as the norm. Now the next time there is a new wave of countering the culture it would involve a different set of values altogether. It will be more about awareness-of fashion, of new morals, gay-right or whatever.
What about the culture our country receiving from the Western influences? How will that effect the natural evolution of the culture?
Ali Azmat: I know what you mean. Some times it looks around and I see these youngsters doing hard drugs and I say f—k, what’s going on. What direction the new generation taking to steer itself. Until I look at what state our nation is in as a whole. And I understand what happening. I mean people like myself, we have it within our mean to get the experience the freshness of these cultures. We can take a vacation and go on a holiday trip, to experience the freedom and return thoroughly energized. But what about those who have to live within the confines of this culture day in and day out, who have to face the harsh realities of our country’s present state. What except route do they have take. So, they take the escape route most accessible to them what else do you expect them to do. They have these pent-up energies and no means of their outlet. I mean what can they do?
You see these bunch of guys hanging around with each other just like that. There is no where they can go to entertain themselves. And guys hanging around with the guys all the time----that’s not healthy. OK may be so they get to hang and with girls every now and then- at parties perhaps – but what else is there to do. You can’t party around the clock.
So what you are advocating in between the lines is a total freedom of sorts for the youth!
Ali Azmat: Absolutely. There is no other way. We have put so many restraints on our youth that they now censor themselves before they get censored. What creativity would you expect to flow from such minds. There has to be a freedom of thought, of action and of expression.
What about sexual freedom?
Ali Azmat: Listen, freedom has no - division. Freedom means freeing the mind and the body of autocratic censorship - once you start putting constraint on one, you put constraints as the other. Look at us. We are all a product of the system that advocates censorship, our art is as plastic as our lives. One reflects on the other and it isn’t a pretty reflection.
What about India, are any better or worse there?
Ali Azmat: They are just like us. They have as corrupt politicians, decadent values, and the same kind of cinema. It’s almost the same.
What about freedom. Aren’t they free to express themselves more than we are?
Ali Azmat: They are. But its all on the surface. Mostly they have allowed others to come in and set standards for freedom there. The have a larger middle class segments which isn’t as suppressed as ours and it has taken bolder steps to embrace that freedom.
And are they sexually liberated?
Ali Azmat: On a social level - no. It’s only on television where you see all that frolicking. Otherwise they are just like us - only larger in number.
Is that then the parallel you were trying to draw on Star News?
Ali Azmat: Exactly. The two were once a single country weren’t they. We share the same borders now don’t we. People think, like the two countries were separated by six thousand miles. They are not for heaven sake. It’s just a six-hour drive by road, you can get to Delhi from Lahore in half hour. I don’t get it. What is it that we are fighting for religion? Well aren’t we an Islamic Republic, then how come the Muslim brother is being slaughtered by his own kind. In India at least people don’t get massacred in mosques. There are multitudes of races co-existing peacefully there. Of course they fight every now and then but at least they haven-t allowed their differences to cleave division in them. Look at the kind of division you have here-we have even divided the religion into cults-you have sipha-e-this and sipha-e-that. One religion broken down into God knows how many sects. It’s all bull shit. These people are holding the entire nation hostage.
What do you is the root cause of this?
Ali Azmat: It’s all a question of economics. Bad economics. And it suits the interest of our rulers fine. They divide and they rule. They are not ever letting any unification on one platform. Who will they rule if that happens. Where will the votes come from it the public rises and unites.
And this sounds very nobles and politically corrects on your part but people smell some fishy somewhere in there. Do you have some agenda other than the one you so passionately advocate. Let me catch you off d. Weren’t you the guests of Permeshvar Goodrej the last time you were in India?
Ali Azmat: So?
And wasn’t she the one who played a vital role in the later-day celebrity he became?
Ali Azmat: What?
Isn’t Imran Khan returning the favor — you having supported Tehrik-e-insaf and all that - by you the break that you so desperately needed?
Ali Azmat: Returning what favor? What have we done for Imran, Khan for him to do anything of the sort. We supported and are still supporting his fight for cancer patients - the Shaukat Khanum Memorial Hospital.
Even that has come under suspicion of mal administration and siphoning of funds?
Ali Azmat: Oh come on! How do you think the hospital is running if any of that is true. It’s easy to point fingers isn’t it. That’s is what all this is about, right? I know Imran Khan. He is not a friend of mine. He’s a friend of Salman’s. But I respect that man a lot - not so much for his politics and his cricket - but for the fact that he comes across as a man of substance. You listen to his views and you know that this guy wouldn’t sell his mother for money. You know that he’ll fight for the right. His political agenda is of no consequence to me. That’s his business. I think that he has done a lot for cancer patients and that is what counts as far as I’m concerned.
So you are denying categorically that you do not support Tehrik-e-insaf?
Ali Azmat: I support Shaukat Khanum Memorial Hospital and what it stands for?
But can Tehrik-e-insaf and SKMH ever be seen independent of each other?
Ali Azmat: Definitely. They might or might not be independent entities for Imran but for us they are. And come on, the guy is doing a great service to humanity. Doesn’t that mean anything. We do charity show all the time. We do them for him too. I mean wasn’t it Nawaz Sharif donated land for the hospital. So, doesn’t he support his humanitarian cause irrespective of their political differences. And when Imran talks about the need to bring about changes in society and the system he isn’t all that wrong is he?
So you may not help him promote his political agenda but you do agree with his political theory?
Ali Azmat: might not be promoting him but then I also turn around and see what hope Nawaz Sharif and Benazir Bhutto have to offer. Neither does. If one is a sinner, the other isn’t a saint either. So where do we take for hope. We have senators who are loan defaulters and ministers who are killers. Who is going to change the system then. May be it’s not Imran either. Maybe it’s an army general. Who know? It’s got to be somebody.
But with lady luck.. So benevolently on you- you can leave all this decay behind with a bounty tucked under your arms.
Ali Azmat: What bounty. For seven years we didn’t make any money. We haven’t made much even now.
Are you at this point concerned about your security with the government having banned you?
Ali Azmat: I don’t move around with bodyguards if that is what you want to know. What’s the worse that can happen. Who is protected from the rampant violence in this country?
Have you received any threats - obnoxious phone-calls - some like that?
Ali Azmat: No! No!
Has the Government tried to get in touch with you. Have you been sent a communiqué - a show cause notice?
Ali Azmat: No. Their attitude is like f …k them. We said f…k you too! They can ban us all that they want. At this point we don’t even need to play in Pakistan.
How do you feel about the ban?
Ali Azmat: t has worked in our favor., if you know what I mean. All of a sudden everybody wants to know -what on earth junoon is?
If I were to go by the shirts that you were and the insignia that keeps popping up on them, I’d say the band has sometime to do with Yin and Yang!
Ali Azmat: It’s about balance man-the Yin and the Yang.
I think its more about the balance between the masculine and feminine in every individual. Tell me are you in touch with your feminine side?
Ali Azmat: May be.
You think so?
Ali Azmat: Yeah!
Is it a yeah yeah or just yeah!
Ali Azmat: For me it means that you cannot live without women and you can’t live with them, you know!
why do you say that?
Ali Azmat: Because men and women are different kinds of creature - like one’s from Mars and the others from Venus.
Do you macho is fake then?
Ali Azmat: Oh yeah. Those guys are not comfortable with themselves.
Would you say that you are simply a vocal person or is it that you have no inhibitions. Judging from your interview that I have read I’d say that you feel little need to hold back as you thoughts!
Ali Azmat: Well, I think I’m an honest person. And I’m not diplomatic. And maybe I have no inhibitions. Like, for instance I think sex is a very natural aspect of life. I don’t know why people make such a big issue out of it. Isn’t it like eating and sleeping and other instincts. It’s the body’s need. The body needs water and the body needs sex. Simple as that.
What do you think is the correlation of love and sex?
Ali Azmat: There was a time that attracting women was the only reason why I wanted to be up on the stage. But that was when I was seventeen. Now I feel grown up. But I still don’t tend to see love isolated from sex. when it comes to it I don’t even think about it. I live for the moment.
What comes naturally to you after music?
Ali Azmat: Nothing!
Are you a loner?
Ali Azmat: I am.
Loners’ find it difficult to share life! With a woman I How would you cope?
Ali Azmat: I tend to strike a balance - remember Yin and Yang.
Has life treated you well?
Ali Azmat: I left home at 18, 1 have worked hard to get where I am. I think life has treated me fairly well. But I wasn’t handed anything on a silver platter.
When do you plan to get married?
Ali Azmat: Not in the near future.
No parental pressure?
Ali Azmat: They tell me not to. They know I’d feel suffocated and trapped in a marriage.
Your hair, is it a fashion statement wearing them long - or like you said is one of your interviews, a part of your personality without which you’d feel undressed?
Ali Azmat: Not really, they aren’t. I’m planning to shave off my head in fact I’m going bald yaar!
And go public!
Ali Azmat: what choice do I have?
How do you feel about growing old? Like you said - you aren’t seventeen any more!
Ali Azmat: I am really looking forward to growing old. I am! Except for that I’m sick and tired of running the house day in and day out. Now I want for a girl - a rich girl to marry me and get me rid of this drudgery.