Ali a.s or mavia

Society Religion & Philosophy
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Re: Ali a.s or mavia

^
[QUOTE]
10, 12 years ago there werent people supporting yazid
[/QUOTE]

oh yes they were ....u have to get that book of Mahmood ahmed Abbasi ....i tell u its a classic propoganda piece ...i have only read parts of it in photocopies ....original is rare

Cafe di Baithak - September
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Re: Ali a.s or mavia

So basically your thread should've asked: Do you support Yazeed or not?

No need to go into a battle of the past, to choose sides. Sitting in the CURRENT time frame, how about I choose both.

* IF ABOVE PERSON SAY I LOVE U *
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Re: Ali a.s or mavia

And you are playing to there tunes. They will love to engage you in these issues and inturn you too are playing the same game.

Allah has not made people responsible for others deeds or actions. They will get what they earn and you will get what you earn.

While the world in general and muslims in particular have enormous challenges in front of them, you are trying to settle old scores. Get over it and live in 2008, can you become Hussein or Ali or Hur of today? Opinions on history mean nothing, its actions of today that matter.

~~~ Missing someone ~~~
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Re: Ali a.s or mavia

:k:

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Re: Ali a.s or mavia

what kinda question is this? No second thought required. Its a pretty black and white answer methinks.

What IMO is quite irrational is that stating both were right; for the reason being one side obviously disliked the other enough to wage war and kill. This wasnt some lovey dovey affair between the sahabas, it was a fight for power, that got pretty ugly and had been so for some time.

So choosing which side you support now is hugely significant in that it implicates you simply by your inclinations towards the guided from the misguided. And looking back in history, it was clearly an issue of right from wrong.

Sure it wont effect them in the past, they're deeds are done and dusted. But you however, will be questioned about your choice of beliefs, so the least you can do is make sure its an informed one. because, frankly; where Islam is concerned, impartiality doesnt really cut it.

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Re: Ali a.s or mavia

^So we will have a history exam by Angels in hereafter. Thats interesting.

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Re: Ali a.s or mavia

lol @ history exam

Guys it's real simple: It makes no difference who you "support" because everyone from that time has passed away. Their judgement lies with Allah (swt). Yes, whether you respect one or another may make a difference to you and how you feel toward a certain set of people. I respect the beloved Prophet (pbuh) and his Family alike. Period!

While, the others have passed away centuries ago, We are still here and our task would be to avoid fighting amongst each other, and try our best to erase the divisive lines between the factions that have scattered the Ummah as a whole.

You will be asked whether you did your part or not. Now that's important and applies to all of us.

So how about talking of ways we can put aside our difference Shia/Sunni, etc...and sit together and join hands like the Muslim brothers that we are. What Religion needs is a healthy dose of unity-enforcing threads to show the strength and encourage it rather than point fingers because that's not going to get us anywhere.

Just my opinion.....:)

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Re: Ali a.s or mavia

by then dear sir, everything will be on history. so i advise you not to run away from it. :)

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Re: Ali a.s or mavia

actually it's history or mystery.

You usually know His-story...it's My-stery that's hard to find out. :)

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Re: Ali a.s or mavia

Like what?

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Re: Ali a.s or mavia

Which is why our generation ought to make a real effort and reconcile, so we can be a remembered as a better part of the history. Not to mention have something to add to the deeds which we'll be in dire need of that day when everything's accounted for. :)

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Re: Ali a.s or mavia

Ma Mooli, I dunno what you speak of.

I can easily join hand with my shia brothers, and they have no problems with it, Neither do I.

You keep ur beliefs, I keep mine. I support both Sahabas r.a. in their stand in this war, you can support one. Your choice.

At this day and age though, there is only one side we can stand on. And shia sunni should both be on this side.

Have you ever heard the supreme leader of the shias, Khamenei, speak out against Sunnis?

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Re: Ali a.s or mavia

ok there are two different issues being confused here. unity and historical discussion.

Shia/sunni unity is not an issue for me per se and it has never been so. But i dont see how its linked to the historical discussion initiated by the OP.

IMO we can all join hands and unite, but that should not stop us discussing our core issues. esp. on a BB.

Unity doesnt mean i dont think, that we ignore our differences and hope they'll go away one way or another, because thats kinda unrealistic. In essense it means understanding and learning to accept the differences we have and then moving on from there. That kind of unity is far more stronger and worthwhile than pretending our differences dont exist altogether..

The other kind is fragile and although it may work temporarily, at one point or another, it'll most likely breaks apart at the slightest crack and usually at a time when its needed the most.

Hence, you should be able to sit together and still talk about your similiarities and differences inorder to learn and inform ( as opposed to condemn and insult). Unity and debating is not an oxymoron you know, well...just so long as you dont go to wars over it. :-)

Personally, i think Akhlaq is the key word here.

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Re: Ali a.s or mavia

That way, we cant coincide with anyone on the planet. With that thinking, you cant sit with a christian, jew, atheist etc. in the same room.

One will say Jesus was god, the other will reject, and the other will call him a Prophet. Who is right?

One will say Abu Bakr r.a. was appointed, the other would say Ali r.a. was appointed. One will present his hadiths, the other present his hadith.

There you have it, people wasting their time. Instead of doing something to benefit humanity at large.

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Re: Ali a.s or mavia

I don't think any other leaders or marja have said anything against Sunnis, and in general have spoken about unity.

Gilani swings into action -- address to the nation
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Re: Ali a.s or mavia

i think shiaas first need to overcome the misconception that any sunni wud favor Muawiyah (ra) over Ali (ra)....

Umar (ra) had Ali (ra) as one of his chief advisors and Muawiyah (ra) wud find place at the end of the majlis, near the shoes, as Umar (ra) seated sahabas according to rank in his majlis....

this pretty much depicts very clearly how sunnis see both the personalities that r being discussed here....

the matter that was on hand was the murder of a khalifa....
and they were the very same arabs that wud fight centuries over camel or a horse....
so u can imagine the extent that they wud go to over this issue....

and if u assume it to be just a struggle for the gain of power, even then i think its pretty clear that it was never a was of religious supremacy....
no one then, or now, ever thought that anyone else at that time was superior to Ali (ra) on the merits of devotion to religion....
so to make this issue a part of religion is indeed strange....

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Re: Ali a.s or mavia

Ok two guys Iconoclast and Cresent,
with due respect It seems like u dun wana talk abt... No one is forcing u here to post ur opnion.... But the way u r against discussing it, it seems like u wana hide it, we cant hide the fact that there were 70 or 72 wars Between Mahviyah and Ali a.s. 

There are alot of muslims who dunno alot of history some dunt even know abt these wars. when we talk abt it, Others come to know that all sahab's werent living peacefully after all.... by not talking about it in future people will even deny that there were any wars between Ali a.s and mahwiya  and its only shia's home made it history that says it .... even though u dunt wana say u wud Support Imam Ali atleast u accept that there were wars between two thats enough for me !
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Re: Ali a.s or mavia

So then why must we bring up these discussions, if our leaders are not bringing them up, and focusing on points that will further unify the divide.

Aqeel I already answered your question.

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Re: Ali a.s or mavia

like i said before it was not a shia-sunni war .....seriously both sides of muslims were outwardlyof the same religious beliefs , but one side were the ones who stood to safeguard the tradition of the old islamic values and to keep the role of religious principles in politics, while on the other were those who wanted to transform the state into a autocratic dictatorship on the lines of the byzantines and persians.
i disagree that its just a historical event and has no bearing on our present day life ...history is useful if used as a guide to avoid making similar mistakes in future ...thats why Quran is itself full of historical references ....

but to interpret this war in the context of present shia -sunni relations is inaccurate if u guys want a shia sunni war the struggle between safavids vs ottomans or mughals and deccan states is a far better example ....

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Re: Ali a.s or mavia

Brother Das Reich I agree but history is subjective and these events are really spiced up to carter for the sectarian tastes. Such history should be only for the scholars and the public at large must first learn what is required of them to be good Muslims. History later. If anyone doesn't know anything about history it wouldn't make him a lesser Muslim; whereas if one is well versed in history and no deeds and practice of faith, then his is done for, agree?

Aqeel most importantly the Muslims don’t know much about their religion at all – majority of Muslims don’t pray or know how to pray and many don’t even know very basics of their faith.

When we die we won’t be asked history questions but about our beliefs and our deeds to the effect.

Believe you me, in hereafter Allah (swt) will not question you or me about history – about what Hz. Mu’awiyah (ra) did to Hz. Ali (ra) or what Hz. Ali (ra) did to Hz. Mu’awiyah (ra). They have to answer for their deeds.

And history is very subjective and many incidents have been spiced up to fit the sectarian belief requirements.

Read the following ayah of the blessed Quran and reflect upon it.

That was a people that hath passed away. They shall reap the fruit of what they did, and ye of what ye do! Of their merits there is no question in your case! 2:134 & 2:141

The above is erroneous too. Battle of Siffin took place in 657 AD, after 25 years of Prophet (saw)’s passing away. Majority of the Sahabah (May Allah (swt) be pleased with them all) had died by then and majority of them were too old. It is the younger generation who were around now.

Quran has vouched that the Companions of Prophet (saw) were “compassionate among themselves” and you are telling otherwise. Please don’t challenge the Quran.

Muhammad is the Messenger of Allah, and those with him are firm of heart against the unbelievers, compassionate among themselves; you will see them bowing down, prostrating themselves, seeking grace from Allah and pleasure; their marks are in their faces because of the effect of prostration; that is their description in the Taurat and their description in the Injeel; like as seed-produce that puts forth its sprout, then strengthens it, so it becomes stout and stands firmly on its stem, delighting the sowers that He may enrage the unbelievers on account of them; Allah has promised those among them who believe and do good, forgiveness and a great reward. [48:29]

Read that it is only the unbelievers who are enraged on account of them [the Companions (May Allah (swt) be pleased with them all) of Prophet Muhammad (saw)]