Alcohol -- what do you call alcohol

reading the post on alcohol in food i decided to post this

what would you consider to be alcohol that is haram..

according to islam what is prohibited is what you get from the ferment (literal translation of khamar).

and not what i studied in organic chemistry ( well apart from what qualifies as coming from fermented source) .. Alcohols .. a group of organic compounds which had similar properties.. a few of them quite lethal to humans.. e.g. methanol which if it doesn;t kill you will leave you blind.

someone had raised the issue with me that usage of these perfumes and sprays was haram as it contained alcohol..

unfortunately the poor sod did not realise that it was the second of the alcohols and not khamar..

there i have said my piece..

blackzero:

Now you are delving into issues which have come to the attention in recent times. These issues have been answered by muslim scholars, but I must warn you in advance, that there is a possibility that there is a difference of opinion.

I will provide you some answers. If you are not satisfied, I suggest you consult an aalim or website whom you consider to have appropriate knowledge and who will give you daleel (reasons) for whatever opinion is offered.

In Islam, any thing which intoxicates is haraam. Consuming wine is but, just one way of getting intoxicated. By "intoxication" we mean, your senses are dulled and you no longer know what you are doing or saying. To avoid putting muslims in a difficult position of determining at which level will they be sufficiently intoxicated, Islam has simplified things by saying that "If anything is haraam in large quantities, then it is haraam in small quantities". Therefore if a drink may intoxicate at large quantities, then it is also haraam in small quantities. Intoxicants, therefore is a broad term, and should not be confused by just alcohol. It may include beer, cocaine, marijuana, vodka, whisky etc. Anything which can dull your senses.

I had already answered the question about medicinal use of alcohol in the thread "Alcohol in food".

Now lets take the issue of perfumes that are said to contain cologne or alcohol. If the percentage of alcohol is very little, we say that it does not matter, and a person may use them without any concern, such as if the alcohol content is 5% or less. This does not matter.

If the percentage of alcohol is very high, so that you can detect it, then it is better not to use it except where it is necessary, such as for sterilizing wounds and the like.

In cases where it is not necessary, it is better not to use it, but we do not say that it is haram. The most we can say is that this high alcohol content is an intoxicant, and no doubt consuming intoxicants is haram according to the texts of Islam and the consensus of the scholars, but is using it in ways other than drinking it permissible? This is open to speculation, but to be on the safe side we should not use it. If you say that it is open to speculation because Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “O you who believe! Intoxicants, gambling, al-ansaab [animals that are sacrificed on stone altars for idols], and al-azlaam [arrows for seeking luck or decision], are an abomination of Shaytaan’s handiwork. So avoid (strictly all) that (abomination) in order that you may be successful. Shaytaan wants only to excite enmity and hatred between you with intoxicants and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allaah and from al-salaah (the prayer). So will you not then abstain?” [al-Ma’idah 5:90-91], then we look at the general meaning of the phrase "So avoid (strictly all) that (abomination)", and say that alcohol should be avoided in all cases, whether it is drunk or applied to the skin, or used in some other way. If we look at the reason why, Allaah says, “Shaytaan wants only to excite enmity and hatred between you with intoxicants and gambling, and hinder you from the remembrance of Allaah and from al-salaah (the prayer). So will you not then abstain?” We may understand this to mean that only drinking it is forbidden, because applying it to the skin does not lead to that (enmity and hatred, etc.). So, in conclusion, we say that if the percentange of alcohol in this perfume is low, there is no need to worry about using it, but if it is high, then it is better to avoid it unless it is for a need, such as sterilizing wounds and the like.

Adios!

Oh one more thing. Since you were on the topic of poisonous alcohols. I found this on a website:

Question: If the alcohol in which perfume is dissolved is of a type that is poisonous, not intoxicating, is it permissible to use this perfume?

Answer by Shaykh, al-Mufti al-‘Allaamah ‘Abd al-‘Azeez ibn ‘Abd-Allaah ibn Baaz: It is permissible to use this as perfume, and there does not seem to be any reason not to do so. And Allaah knows best.

O you who believe! Intoxicants and gambling...are an abomination of Satan's handiwork. So avoid that(abomination) in order that you maybe successful." Quran 5:90

"They ask you concering INTOXICANTS(alcoholic drinks) and GAMBLING. Say in them is great sin..." Quran 7:33

In Intoxicants there is a great sin meaning great harm. Millions of people have died of liver diseases and primarily caused by alcohol consumption. In America, and Europe, every year record increases in the percentage of alcohol related deaths among teenagers. According to CNN, "Alcohol is the most widely abused drug in America."


*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*

[This message has been edited by The Watcher (edited October 01, 2000).]

blackzero: someone once told me that the from the Quran's point of view, the component that makes alcohol haram is not so much the contents, but the the "results" produced from intoxication, which is unability to judge right from wrong thus leading to foolish acts.

pristine: thats all true, but if that is so then i wonder why isnt an overpowering "emotion" considered haraam?

The Watcher: more so harm than sin, and the alcohol related death rate has not only crossed record porpotions among teenagers, but overall age groups. "Alcohol" is the second most abused stimulant in America, tobacco being the first.


o©º°¨¨°º©o LiFe Is An IllUsIoN aNd ReAliTy iS a FiGmEnT oF tHe iMaGiNaIiOn o©º°¨¨°º©o

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V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

**Originally posted by The Watcher:
According to CNN, “Alcohol is the most widely abused drug in America.” **


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The Watcher just setting the facts straight man, you dont have to accept them

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o©º°¨¨°º©o LiFe Is An IllUsIoN aNd ReAliTy iS a FiGmEnT oF tHe iMaGiNaIiOn o©º°¨¨°º©o

You are right, I do not have to accept anything, just making sure you get the right message sir, you know.

The sentence clearly stated “ACCORDING TO CNN” which means according to them(the CNN people) and not me.

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bye


V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

[This message has been edited by The Watcher (edited October 01, 2000).]

A common stereotype of the Norse viking is of a gladiator eating large turkey legs, taking swigs of goblets of wine. Did the wine intoxicate? of course. However, this hides the fact that wine has the advantage of sterility - whereas wine simply intoxicates, the water was so dirty as to make one sick, and possibly spread germs that could kill.

Alcohol, then, is a part of society that offers drink safe from disease. Why is alcohol the most abused drug? Because it is legal? Why is it legal? Because the vast majority of Western Society sees no need to cut it off, but only to limit it in moderation. Such is democracy.

[quote]
Originally posted by blackzero:
**
unfortunately the poor sod did not realise that it was the second of the alcohols and not khamar..
**
[/quote]

what is the purpose of declaring something haraam? ethyl alcohol can be synthesized chemically without any fermentation from hydrocarbons as a base. dilute it with equal amount of water, and lo, you get artificial voda, a glass of which can get you as drunk as a 5-6 beers!

should the emphasis be on the fermentation or the use to which the alcohol is put to? :) can common sense and personal discretion not decide what's haraam and what's not, or does one have to go literally by the book?

It is well know fact that alcoholics often lethally beat and even kill their wives and childern. The police has to be extra vigilant against hooliganism and accidents during X-max because of excessive use of alcohol. The drunken driving is to well know a phenomena for fatal road accidents throughout Europe and America.

With Alcohol you can never be sure when you have crosses the limit. Muslims are, therefore completely forbidden from taking alcoholic beverages.

Astrofan, what does your common sense say about taking deadly substance like alcohol?

Bye.


*V~V~V*He came, He saw, He conquered*V~V~V*

[quote]
Originally posted by The Watcher:
**
Astrofan, what does your common sense say about taking deadly substance like alcohol?
**
[/quote]

I don't drink alcohol. That's what my common sense tells me, and that's how I approach it.

The Department of Public Safety in Texas says 50% of car accidents involve alcohol. That is why drinking and driving is illegal. Some drunks abuse their wives, sure. But abusing your wife is illegal.

Just because society allows alcohol, doesn't mean it condones some of the bad consequences.

It is a societal difference in implementation. Muslims choose to cut out what they feel is the root cause of the bad consequences. Westerners choose to simply punish people for the bad consequences themselves, leaving it up to the individual to decide if they can handle the alcohol or not.

Disagree with the Western approach if you will, but don't simply assume the moral character of the West allows or condones such violent behavior.

Interesting responses.. a few which i was not expecting..

I agree that all intoxicants may come under the framework.. but that is not what has been said in Quran where it prohibits 'khamar' ..

Why does the Quran not mention that marijuana is also not allowed .. well there may be an ayat which prohibits mind altering substances.. but i have not looked one up as yet.. but will this weekend.. So in effect i am saying .. i will do some more research on this.

And yes Ethyl alcohol can be synthesised.. but in effect what you get is the compund which is not allowed.. same cannot be said for higher compunds of the Alcohol (the chemical group) which do not have mind altering effects but have been unforunately classified as alcohol because of basic chemical properties.

hehe

What are intoxicants Mr. Blackzero? And, What is marijuana? A intoxicant!

Here are the verses…

O you who believe! intoxicants and gamblingre an abomination of Satan’s handiwork. So avoid that(abomination) in order that you maybe successful." Quran 5:90

“They ask you concering INTOXICANTS(alcoholic drinks) and GAMBLINGy in them is great sin…” Quran 7:33

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V~V~VHe came, He saw, He conqueredV~V~V**

[This message has been edited by The Watcher (edited October 05, 2000).]