Re: Alcohol should be as easily available as Pepsi or Coke: Sindh MPA
Sa1eem:* I do not know why you have to lie to make your point? You claimed I wrote "Making alcohol easily available will reduce its consumption". Now, show me where I wrote ‘Making Alcohol easily available will reduce its consumption’ ... or even made statement to that effect, in any of my posts?*
Kakaballi: Where did I say that it is YOU who made that statement?
One way or another, you quoted that statement in all your posts when replying to my posts, and thus to me it was/is obvious that you were associating that statement with me. If you have any doubt, read your posts (#49, #51, #63, #68) again. It is further obvious because I did not see anyone making that statement, so when you stated it in reply to my posts it clearly means you wanted that statement to get associating with me.
Anyhow, since you are denying that you were associating that statement with me, I leave the matter.
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Sa1eem:* You are questioning ‘WHO’ data I posted, even though data you posted to prove your point is from same source (data from ‘WHO’). How funny.:). Regardless, ‘WHO’ data (1961 to 2001) I posted clearly shows that Alcohol consumption in Pakistan was fairly constant from 1961 to 1977 (~0.01 litre per head) but when prohibition was imposed in 1977, consumption did not decreased but increased rapidly, reaching ~0.038 litre per head (or ~ 4 times) in 1995. Reduction in consumption after 1995 could be misleading, but it cannot be said that this reduction happened due to ban on Alcohol. :)*
Kakaballi: I am just saying that ~0.03 or ~0.01 is so small amount that it is meaningless to compare over long time periods. It is essentially the same from statistical point of view. I am not questioning the data but just saying that the changes are not significant. Ask any statistician.
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In statistic numbers do not matter but percentage, proportionality, and comparison matters. You can ask that from any knowledgeable person who knows statistics. That means, 0.01 and 0.03 is big difference in statistics (it is 200 percent rise).
If you like absolute consumption figures than, just imagine:
In 1977, Pakistan consumed ~ 0.73 million litres of Alcohol
(73 million Pakistanis consuming ~ 0.01 litres per head)
Then Bhutto imposed ban in 1977 and Alcohol consumption started increasing.
In 1995, Pakistan consumed ~ 4.83 million litres of Alcohol (7 times more than 1977)
(127 million Pakistanis consuming ~ 0.038 litres per head)
So, what you say about that? ... I hope you would not say that one can ignore the figures as there is little difference between 0.73 million litres and 4.83 million litres.
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*Sa1eem:..... if prohibition of Alcohol is the reason of lower consumption, than think why Somalia is 4[SUP]th[/SUP], Mauritania is 6[SUP]th[/SUP] and Bangladesh is 8[SUP]th[/SUP] when all these three countries have no ban on Alcohol, still they are better than Saudi Arabia (9[SUP]th[/SUP]), Iran (27[SUP]th[/SUP]), Brunei (49[SUP]th[/SUP]) and Sudan (43[SUP]rd[/SUP]). ...
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Kakaballi: Open sale of Alcohol is banned in Bangladesh, Mauritania and partly (for most part) in Somalia. I can find you references more reliable than Wikipedia for that. Please make sure you know what you are talking about......
If you really want to compare, compare 'Alcohol Banned' Muslim countries with 'Open Sale' Muslim countries like Turkmenistan.
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As for Somalia, I know that there is no official ban on Alcohol. Anyhow, there are localised areas under the domination of one or another War-lords (Somali Taliban) who banned Alcohol in their areas.
In Bangladesh, Alcohol is allowed under license (what I believe is best for Pakistan too).
In Mauritania, what I know, there is no ban on Alcohol, but society pressure is high.
Anyhow, if you like to exclude these three countries then never mind. How about Egypt that ranks 12[SUP]th[/SUP] with Alcohol consumption of 0.37 litres per head - less than what it was in 1995 Pakistan.
So, compare Egypt (0.37 litre per head) with Iran (1.02 litre per head), Brunei (2.01 litre per head) and Sudan (2.38 litre per head). How is that?
Well, you can compare Egypt with Saudi Arabia too, as Egypt consumption is 0.37 litres per head and Saudi Arabia consumption is 0.25 litres per head. Should be similar to you, as you think 0.01 litres and 0.03 litres is similar. :)
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Sa1eem:* Actual fact is that, Muslim countries and countries where Alcohol is taken as ‘bad and evil‘ by society at large, they consume less Alcohol, regardless of prohibition or no prohibition....*
Kakaballi: Why are you supporting lifting ban on something that is considered 'bad and evil' by society at large? By that token, any vice that is increasing in society should be legalized?
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Now, coming to your most important question:
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Kakaballi: Why are you supporting lifting ban on something that is considered 'bad and evil' by society at large? By that token, any vice that is increasing in society should be legalized?
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*
I believe Alcohol ban in Pakistan has increased Alcohol availability, accessibility, affordability, confidentiality, consumption as well as increased number of people consuming Alcohol. All data (and personal experience) supports my belief. To me:
Winners benefiting from ban on Alcohol:
1: Law enforcement agencies (who got another venue to take bribe)
2: Custom officials.
3: Smugglers and bootleggers.
4: Local shops selling provisions.
5: Politicians facilitating and protecting Alcohol smuggling, distributing, and marketing.
6: Alcoholics who do not have to travel to license Alcohol shops to buy Alcohol in broad daylight, rather today they are getting Alcohol easily in their local areas and with confidentiality.
Losers due to Alcohol ban:
1: Young kids (who are consuming Alcohol as Alcohol after ban started getting available at reasonable price in their local areas).
2: Those who are Alcoholic and want to get rid of their habit, as for them it has become difficult due to easy accessibility of Alcohol in their local areas.
3: Pakistan, as Pakistan today has no control over Alcohol business what Pakistan would have if Alcohol was legally available under license.
4: Pakistan is also losing revenue from Alcohol trade.
5: People who consume Alcohol but since they need to get it from illegal market, they can get low grade material that could be poisonous too. Many get killed in Pakistan consuming poisonous Alcohol. If they could have got Alcohol from licensed shop, this would not happen, saving life of many.
We have to understand that whatever one would like to see, there would be Alcohol consumers in Pakistan, Muslim as well as non-Muslims. State should not interfere with personal life of these people. Anyhow, if state (Pakistan) would interfere and ban Alcohol that does not mean these people would not be drinking, rather trade would go underground what has already happened in Pakistan after ban. Such underground and unmonitored trades become unrestricted and uncontrolled, that causes increase in customer base as well as criminals and crimes. In country like Pakistan where law and law enforcement agencies are both pathetic, such trade becomes booming once gone underground. Today, situation in Pakistan is such that those doing Alcohol trade underground would never like to see lifting of ban, as that would affect their business.
In my opinion, Alcohol business should have no ban in Pakistan, rather it should be monitored business with license. Anyone over 18 should be allowed to buy Alcohol from licensed shops. There should be reasonable duty on Alcohol sale, so to make people drinking pay for their habit. Meanwhile, State can keep doing educational TV programs and talk shows condemning Alcohol consumption on religious as well as health ground.
