alcohol in food

Society Religion & Philosophy
21

[quote]
Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT:
Prozac? Please go on and explain exactly why I need Prozac.....
[/quote]

Well I was gonna leave it as is, but what the heck. Its to cheer you up a bit so that in your future post, you will argue about the topic and not telling me what you will do, because as late Itzac Rabbin ( Israeli Prime Minister ) said, " The response will be quick and very harsh" so stay within limits of civilized debate and criticize the topic if you have enough vocabulary.

Have a good day ( whatever is left of it )

22

[quote]
Originally posted by Bharysh:
** it was a christian wedding. **
[/quote]

must be nice being invited to a wedding...

23

[quote]
Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT:
**That wine is permitted to us in the next life; the wine of this world is forbidden to us. The wine of the next world is incapable of rendering us intoxicated and thus, unlike the wine of this world, it will not cause our judgement to be impaired and cause us to deviate from God's command.

Amy, stick around on this forum. Once my exams are over in 2 weeks, I will cheerfull God-willing rip apart any arguments you make make here......**
[/quote]

How would you know that wine up there is not intoxicating? Were you up there tasting wine or you just being a smart arce?

24

Ahem. Quran. Chapter 37. Verses 43-47.

(Quoted from the translation at http://www.ummah.net/what-is-islam/quran/noble/nobe037.htm))

**43. In the Gardens of delight (Paradise),

  1. Facing one another on thrones,

  2. Round them will be passed a cup of pure wine;

  3. White, delicious to the drinkers,

  4. Neither they will have Ghoul (any kind of hurt, abdominal pain, headache, a sin, etc.) from that, nor will they suffer intoxication therefrom. **

Ladies and gentle, Khawateen-o-hazrat, I rest my case.

25

I would like to know what Pristine, NYA or PartyTrooper would have to say about this ... ?

If the alcahol evaporated then it shouldn't be haram. But who can be fore sure?

This cake was one example but usually at resturants they have things cooked in vine? What is the Fatwa on that?

Peace!

26

Ahmadjee, you do have a point. As I mentioned before having alcoholic drink poured into a mixture and then baking it it so all the alcohol boils off is not that dissimilar to the situation where a loaf of bread is baked - the yeast in the bread produces alcohol which then boils off.

I personally would avoid it, as I have said, because of the point that the liquor pured into it was an impurity - but then this raises the issue of is white wine vinegar allowed? (an issue on which I am of the view it is, as white wine vinegar is not intoxicating, there being no alcohol in it......)

Dang this is getting confusing. I need to consult a more knowledgeable person than I........

27

.

[This message has been edited by Girl from Quraysh (edited June 09, 2001).]

28

What about aftershave? A major ingredient is alcohol. I know of a man that had an alcohol problem and was "dried" out in an institution. The absorption through his skin of the alcohol in his aftershave caused him to start drinking again.

[This message has been edited by The Old Man (edited June 09, 2001).]

29

Well the most conservative ruling on this that I could find ishere. Basically, what this scholar says is that suppose you splash on some aftershave, which contains alcohol. At that point, you cannot do actions such as praying, until the alcohol evaporates (which is very fast… in labs, I’ve spilled 97.5% pure alcohol on my hands and it evaporatated within a minute).

Basically, since applying alcohol to skin does not render one intoxicated, it’s okay. But you cannot pray until the alcohol evaporates, as its presence on you is an impurity. (As I understand, the alcohol content in many aftershaves is such that should you be insane enough to drink it, you could theoretically get drunk! Hence such aftershaves are considered impure.)

30

Excellent job done. This is exactly what I am trying to say. Whenever there is a disagreement about the religion, go to quran and find the answer. Just one caviat. Did you notice it says " one cup of pure wine " and not the whole bottle or any amount you like. Well we all know ( I hope) that one cup of wine is not intoxicating to anyone, but rather its a proven medical fact that it helps in many ways. Quran was way ahead of its time.

Punjabi Kurhi

31

**

[quote]
45. Round them will be passed a cup of pure wine;

  1. White, delicious to the drinkers,

  2. Neither they will have Ghoul (any kind of hurt, abdominal pain, headache, a sin, etc.) from that, nor will they suffer intoxication therefrom.
    **
    [/quote]

Firstly, even if one takes the incorrect assumption that this verse refers to 1 cup of wine being good for you, you cannot say that the Quran was way ahead of its time - bear in mind that the pre-Islamic arabs were convinced that alcohol had medical properties.

Secondly, your view that the description of Neither they will have Ghoul (any kind of hurt, abdominal pain, headache, a sin, etc.) from that, nor will they suffer intoxication therefrom refers to just the cup of pure wine is quite weak.

After all, the arabs of the time were heavy drinkers. They would already have known that just one cup causes no physical harm, or intoxication. What they did would have known, is that drinking large quantities of wine (which many do consider an enjoyable drink) would lead to getting severely plastered and wasted, and then the inevitable hangover the next morning..... (and of course, they would not have been aware of the liver damage being done....)

In these verses the line Neither they will have Ghoul (any kind of hurt, abdominal pain, headache, a sin, etc.) from that, nor will they suffer intoxication therefrom refers to the pure wine, of which a cup will be handed round the believers. What God promises the believers is not the chance to get totally plastered repeatedly for eternity in paradise; what He offers is an eternity where one can enjoy as much of a pure, non-sinful wine as one likes without getting drunk, or suffering liver damge, or getting hangovers, etc.

In this way, the wine of the next world is different from the wine of the hereafter. Further Quranic evidence comes from the Quran Chapter 5, Verses 90 and 91, which contain the lines:

O you who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones and arrows are abomination of Satan’s handiwork: Abstain from it so that you may prosper. Satan's plan is (but) to excite enmity and hatred between you, with intoxicants and gambling, and binder you from the remembrance of God, and from prayer: Will you not then abstain?

It is clear that the wine available to man is sinful and is a tool of Satan. Contrast this with the wine God promises in the next life, which is described as being pure, in the verses I posted earlier.

Sits back and waits for the Punjabi Girl's reply.....

[This message has been edited by mAd_ScIeNtIsT (edited June 09, 2001).]

32

Mad:

The keyword is Intoxication and I agree that intoxication impairs the judgement etc. The issue here was that wine above is not intoxicating and my point was that it is not intoxicating because the quantity has been limited to one cup. Intoxicants are forbidden. Didn't say wine is forbidden. I believe that when wine becomes intoxicant, that's not allowed. That's the way I interpret it.

Punjabi Kurhi

[This message has been edited by amy (edited June 09, 2001).]

33

Dear amy

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

Could you then explain why, in your view, the Qur’an sanctions rivers of wine for the believers?

Muhammad 47: 15 reads as:

  • The parable of Paradise, which the God-fearing are promised: In it are rivers of incorruptible water, rivers of milk of which the taste never deteriorates, rivers of wine of joyous taste for the drinkers, and rivers of clear and pure honey. In it shall they be bestowed all kinds of fruits and [complete] forgiveness from their Lord. Are these like him, who is to dwell forever in fire and shall be given boiling water, which shall cut-up their bowels?

They shoot partypoopers, don’t they?

34

Could you then explain why, in your view, the Qur'an sanctions rivers of wine for the believers?

Well done, you went back to quran for the answer. Now look at the number of believers, if every believer takes a cup, you will need a river. Won't you? God is great.

Punjabi Kurhi

35

But Amy, we are not talking about just one river. The plural term is used, and hence it refers to several rivers at least. There will be basically a heck of a lotta non-intoxicating, pure wine for each of the believers!

[This message has been edited by mAd_ScIeNtIsT (edited June 09, 2001).]

36

Even if your stipulations about "rivers of wine" were taken to be correct, then how do you know that believers would be limited to one cup? Remember, this is Paradise we are talking about. Being given more than one cup was part of the bargain they struck up with God, isn't it? Your view of God seems to depict Him as a bit stingy. Furthermore, your view about the wine still being intoxicating would have rendered parts of the Qur'an redundant. In fact, it would lead to a contradiction.

For instance, in Al-Insaan 76: 21, the Qur’an says:

  • Upon them shall be green silk and brocade garments and they shall be adorned with bracelets of silver; their Lord having given them a cleansed drink.

It should be noted that the words "cleansed drink" as used in the Arabic language, clearly imply "cleansed from all vices".

They shoot partypoopers, don't they?

[This message has been edited by Mr Partypooper (edited June 09, 2001).]

37

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif

good Point

38

  1. Wine is pure, its distilled, filtered etc.

  2. Offcourse many rivers of wine, believers are supposed to live there forever. Its not like one day party where they will each have a cup of wine and then either die or go somewhere else. It simply means that there will be enough quantity of this purified liquid which wine is.

  3. Limited to one cup because quran already tells us not to get intoxicated.

Punjabi Kurhi

39

[quote]
Originally posted by amy:
*1. Wine is pure, its distilled, filtered etc.
*
[/quote]

If wine is already pure, then why the description of the wine of paradise as being "pure wine"?
That's as redundant as saying "a cup of pure pure drink."

Answer: wine in this world is NOT a pure substance because it intoxicates.

40

[quote]
Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT:
** If wine is already pure, then why the description of the wine of paradise as being "pure wine"?
That's as redundant as saying "a cup of pure pure drink

Answer: wine in this world is NOT a pure substance because it intoxicates.."**
[/quote]

Pure wine or wine is pure !! what's your point? Surah says one cup, try it, it doesn't intoxicate.

Punjabi Kurhi