i dont believe in this 21 st century
you religious nuts debating how much alcohol
in vinegar . things to debate about is how can we provide clean drinking water to
every village and make the country free
of illitracy.
Our Holy Prophet (PBUH) used to drink table spoons full of vineger and most Vinegers are made from Acetic acid and water but yes it is a cruel world we live in and most restraunt vinegers do contain alcohol!
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/mad2.gif
personaly I love the stuff and I dress most food with it. the prophet recomemded vineger to sick and weak people and to all the rest of us.
By the way white vineger dose not contain any alcohol the apple vineger and the rest of them could. I dont know because I live in Dubai one of the benifits here are halal food and drinks E.g vineger without alcohol!
keep smiling
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif
[This message has been edited by Desert fox (edited September 29, 2000).]
In Reply to Nanga,
O ye who believe! Intoxicants and gambling, (dedication of) stones, and (divination by) arrows, are an abomination,- of Satan's handwork: eschew such (abomination), that ye may prosper. [005.090]
[This message has been edited by Aladeen (edited September 29, 2000).]
[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Desert fox:
**Our Holy Prophet (PBUH) used to drink table spoons full of vineger
I have never heard this kind of stuff in my life ever before. You should stop inventing thinfs or show us where it says that The holy prophet (pbuh) consumed vineger.
WOW! Thanks for your replys guys
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
Good Luck!
We are the Taleban! Resistance’s is Futile!
O dekho G
Aapan tan black label da double peg pa ke baithe hoe aan. hun chahe allah janat ch bheje te chahe jahannam ch. te baki rahi gall sirke di, bai sirke ch beshak nasha hai te beshak nasha nahin hei, aapan sirka tan ni peen lagge, sirka hove tuhanu mubarak. oye chakko bai chakko !!!
sardar ji
zara peechhey hokar baat keejiey, yahan shaarab peekar aana manah hai. yeh jagah (site) musalmano ke liye hei, kaffron ke liye nahin. abhi baraan bajane mein kaafi waqat hei.
On the topic of Alcohol, the following is offered by Ibn Warriq:
[quote]
Everyone knows that Muslims are not allowd to drink wine in virtue of the prohibition found in the Koran sura 2.219; yet many would no doubt be surprised to read in the Koran at sura 16.67, "And among fruits you have the palm and the vine, from which you get wine and healthful nutriment: in this, truly, are signs for those who reflect" (Rodwell). Dawood had "intoxicants" and Pickthall, "strong drink", and Sale, with eighteenth century charm, has "inebriating liquor" in place of "wine". Yusuf Ali pretends that the Arabic word concerned, "sakar", means "wholesome drink," and in a footnote insists that nonalcoholic drinks are being referred to; but then, at the last moment, he concedes that if "sakar must be taken in the sense of fermented wine, it refers to the time before intoxicants were prohibited: this is a Meccan sura and the prohibition came in Medina."
[/quote]
As a final note, Khalifa translates sakar as "intoxicants".
Does 2.219 cancel 16.67?
[quote]
Originally posted by tauba tauba:
**sardar ji
zara peechhey hokar baat keejiey, yahan shaarab peekar aana manah hai. yeh jagah (site) musalmano ke liye hei, kaffron ke liye nahin. abhi baraan bajane mein kaafi waqat hei.**
[/quote]
tauba tauba its sad to see such an attitude of a muslim towards a non-muslim person. kya mohammet.sa doosroon say is terha ka salooq rakhtay thay? kya aap nay quran mein yay nahin perha ‘tu in ki buree baatoon ko aisee batoon say door ker jo nehayat khoobsoorat hoon” ?
banta jee, nadan hai yay loag, mein in sab ki taraf say aap say mafee chahta hoon. aap guru jee kay payrokaar ho, mein un ka bahut ahteraam kerta hoon, aap ka ahteraam bhi mera farz hai.
Aladeen: please read my reply above again.
Astrofan: both are correct at their instance. no verse in quran invalidates other verse. it’s the matter of interpretation.
[This message has been edited by nanga .]
Hi there!
This is interesting. Lets take the items discussed, point by point.
1. What is the status of vinegar in Islam?
Vinegar is not altogether haraam. No way. As already discussed it is allowed. Even the Prophet (PBUH) liked vinegar. Sometimes he would praise the food, as when he asked his family for food, and they said, “We have nothing but vinegar.” He asked for it and started to eat it, saying, “What a good food is vinegar.” Narrated by Muslim (2052).
However, some varieties of vinegar contain alcohol, in which case it is advisable not to consume them, especially because non-alcoholic varieties are also available. Just look at the ingredients. Usually, vinegar bottles which have a wine-bottle-shaped cork contain alcohol. Avoid vinegar made from alcohol, because it is not permissible to eat dishes cooked with alcohol, as ALL the alcohol is not evaporated with cooking or heat. Refer to the following, quoted from the famous Mayo Clinic:
2. Our second question is are small quantities of alcohol allowed?
The answer in the light of hadith is that it was reported that the Messenger of Allaah (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whatever intoxicates in large quantities, a small amount of it is haraam.” (Narrated by Ahmad in al-Musnad, 2/91, 167, 179; 3/343). If the vinegar would cause intoxication in large amounts, then a little of it is haraam, and it comes under the same ruling as wine. If a large amount of it does not cause intoxication, then there is no reason not to sell it, buy it or drink it.
3. This brings us directly to the third question. Is alcohol haraam?
To answer it, we have to look at the quranic ayat. The arabic word used is “al-khamr” meaning anything which intoxicates. The ayat is “O you who believe! Intoxicants (all kinds of alcoholic drinks), gambling, al-ansaab (stone altars for sacrifices to idols, etc.), and al-azlaam (arrows for seeking luck or decision) are an abomination of Shaytaan’s handiwork. So avoid (strictly all) that abomination, in order that you may be successful.” [al-Maa’idah 5:90]
The command to avoid these things is the strongest indication that they are forbidden. Khamr (“wine”, alcohol) is compared to al-ansaab, which were idols of the kuffaar; there is no excuse for those who argue that the Qur’aan does not say it is forbidden but only tells us to avoid it!
The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) also issued a stern warning to the one who drinks khamr. Jaabir reported that he said: “Allaah has promised the one who drinks khamr that He will make him drink the mud of khibaal.” The people asked, “O Messenger of Allaah, what is the mud of khibaal?” He said, “The sweat of the people of Hell, or the juice of the people of Hell.” (Reported by Muslim, 3/1587). Ibn ‘Abbaas reported that the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whoever dies and has the habit of drinking khamr, he will meet Allaah as one who worships idols.” (Reported by al-Tabaraani, 12/45; see also Saheeh al-Jaami’, 6525).
Nowadays there are very many kinds of khamr, with many names in Arabic and other languages, such as beer, ji’ah (beer), alcohol, araq (“arrack”), vodka, champagne, etc. There has appeared in this ummah the type of person described by the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him): “Some people of my ummah will drink khamr, calling it by another name.” (Reported by Imaam Ahmad, 5/342; see also Saheeh al-Jaami’, 5453). So they may call it “spirits” instead of khamr, as an attempt to distort the facts and deceive. Allaah says (interpretation of the meaning): “They (think to) deceive Allaah and those who believe, while they only deceive themselves, and perceive (it) not!” [al-Baqarah 2:9]
Islam imposes strict controls on this matter, and deals with it decisively so that there is no room for misunderstanding. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allah be upon him) said: “Every intoxicant is khamr and every intoxicant is haraam.” (Reported by Muslim, 3/1587). Everything that has the effect of clouding the mind is haraam, whether in large or small amounts. (The hadeeth, “Whatever causes intoxication in large amounts, a small amount of it is haraam,” was reported by Abu Dawud, no. 3681; see Saheeh Abi Dawud, no. 3128). No matter how many different names there are, they all refer to one thing, and the ruling concerning it is well-known.
Finally, the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) issued a warning to those who drink khamr: “Whoever drinks khamr and becomes intoxicated, his prayers will not be accepted for forty days, and if he dies he will enter Hell, and if he repents Allaah will accept his repentance. If he drinks again and becomes intoxicated again, his prayers will not be accepted for forty days, and if he dies he will enter Hell, and if he repents Allaah will accept his repentance. If he drinks again and becomes intoxicated again, his prayers will not be accepted for forty days, and if he dies he will enter Hell, and if he repents Allaah will accept his repentance. If he drinks a fourth time, Allaah promises that He will make him drink from the mud of khibaal on the Day of Resurrection. The people asked, “O Messenger of Allaah, what is the mud of khibaal?” He said, “The juice of the people of Hell.” (Reported by Ibn Maajah, no. 3377; see also Saheeh al-Jaami’, 6313).
4. Is alcohol allowed in medicines?
If the medicine containing alcohol is essentially an intoxicant, such that drinking a large amount of it would make one drunk, then it is haraam to take it or to give it, because the Prophet SAWS (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) said: “Whatever makes one drunk in large amounts, a little of it is haraam” (Reported by the four muhadditheen and others; see also Saheeh al-Jaami’, no. 5530). If it is not an intoxicant, then it is permitted to give it and to apply it to the skin, etc.
I hope these refernces help those who had any confusion on this issue. If you don’t agree with these daleels, then please feel free to disagree and make sure you quote references of ayat or ahadith.
Adios!
[This message has been edited by Pristine (edited September 30, 2000).]
[This message has been edited by Pristine (edited September 30, 2000).]
[quote]
Originally posted by astrosfan:
On the topic of Alcohol, the following is offered by Ibn Warriq:
Everyone knows that Muslims are not allowed to drink wine in virtue of the prohibition found in the Koran sura 2.219; yet many would no doubt be surprised to read in the Koran at sura 16.67, "And among fruits you have the palm and the vine, from which you get wine and healthful nutriment: in this, truly, are signs for those who reflect" (Rodwell). Yusuf Ali concedes that if "sakar must be taken in the sense of fermented wine, it refers to the time before intoxicants were prohibited: this is a Meccan sura and the prohibition came in Medina."
Does 2.219 cancel 16.67?
[/quote]
Astrofan, this is a valid question, but one thing we must keep in mind is that no verse in Quran is "cancelled". Rather based on the timing of nazool we can determine what is the command by Allah Ta'alla in its mature form. There is no argument that Islam developed gradually, as Allah knew the ages old traditions of Arabs and turned them to His ways in a gradual manner.
Similarly, initially in early Mecca days He commanded muslims not go near their prayers while intoxicated.
4:43 "O you who believe! Approach not AsSalât (the prayer) when you are in a drunken state until you know (the meaning) of what you utter... ". Subsequently complete prohobition was commanded.
By the way, the translation of 2:219 is as follows, for those who want to know.
2:219. They ask you (O Muhammad SAW) concerning alcoholic drink and gambling.] Say: "In them is a great sin, and (some) benefit for men, but the sin of them is greater than their benefit."
Adios!
[This message has been edited by Pristine (edited September 30, 2000).]
pristine that’s very interesting to know that a significant amount of alcohol is still left even after cooking. i visited that mayo site and surprised to see the figures. http://www.mayohealth.org/mayo/askdiet/htm/new/qd000816.htm
sorry i was wrong, i take my words back.
in the light of statistics above, i think what percentage of original alcohol remained after cooking is still controversial and it all depends on;
- the concentration of alcohol used,
- the method (simmering or baking),
- the temperature,
- the time and
- even on the size of the pan.
long simmering in a wide uncovered pan is the most effective way to remove alcohol; baking appeared to be the least.
here is another mix picture what you have said above.
** http://www.post-gazette.com/magazine/19980903alcohol8.asp **
in my view, whenever you add alcohol, flavor is the most important thing. you don’t do it for the alcohol.
moreover the amount and concentration of alcohol usually used in restaurants is still quite significant (e.g 1/4th to a cup of burgundy) as compared to the amount i mentioned. (1/2 tlb sp wine-vinegar).
personally i have never used any alcoholic product whatsoever, and in future too i will do my best to preserve my tradition. over here i am just debating with scientific analysis.
[This message has been edited by [ nanga ] (edited September 30, 2000).]
[nanga]
I am ver glad that I was helpful in clarifying something for my muslim brother.
Ciao!
In the time of the prophet, pbuh, there was NO WAY to obtain vinegar except as a secondary product of alcoholic fermentation.
The industrially produced acetic acid is a modern product and quite bad tasting.
See also: http://islamicity.org/dialogue/Q24.HTM
There are other sources I will search for but no time today.
I've heard that the consumption of alcohol is permitted if one is in such bad condition and the only available source of medication is alcohol. In extreme cases like this, alcohol is allowed because you are not addicted to it - you are simply curing an illness. This does not mean that if you are depressed you have the right to get pissed on a friday night though!
If anyone has any doubts as to the voatile nature of alcohol....in cooking....
Try pouring shot of brandy on top of whatever you are making....
Then light it.