Al-Najd - What is it?

:salam:

Let this be a complete academic breakdown of this subject. Let’s analyse the arguments on all sides.

I have seen ahadith on websites that relate to Iraq - what is the source of those references? Are they cross-examinable?. I have also seen old maps that refer to Najd being the central region of Saudi Arabia.

What is the meaning of the ahadith about “Najd” - whatever that place may be - a place that did not receive the du’as of RasoolAllah (SAW) but Sham (Syria) and Yaman (Yemen) did receive the prophetic du’a. Why did they receive the du’a and not the Najd (whatever that place may be)?

Please provide references - citing the websites or books that you have taken information from to form a bigger and better picture - in order so we can entertain the polemic nature of the opinions as well as the referential material.

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**Into the Deep Blue
Of interest, even the 1947 Scott catalogue maintained separate Hejaz and Nejd sections, because of the dual character of the Kingdoms. The '41/'47 Big Blues also have dual entries for Hejaz and Nejd. By 1969, Big Blue had shrunk the Hejaz section from one page to two lines (more about that later), and renamed the Nejd section “Saudi Arabia”.

**Big Blue 1840-1940: Hejaz & Saudi Arabia

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Saudi Arabia

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The Different regions of Najdedit]

Scholars have elucidated that there are perhaps up to thirteen various regions known as najd. The geographer and Islamic scholar, of Greek origin, Imam Yaqut al-Hamawi in his encyclopaedic work Mu’jam al-Buldan explained the various regions of najd as;[SUP][14]](Hadith of Najd - Wikipedia)[/SUP] 1. Najd Yemen. 2. Najd Iraq. 3. Najd Hejaz. 4. Najd Khal. 5. Najd Al-Shari. 6. Najd Azaar. 7. Najd Al-Aqaab. 8. Najd Kabkab. 9. Najd Mari. 10. Najd Alwaz. 11. Najd-e-Aja. 12. Najd Barqq.

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Reply to Najd Hadith: East refers to IRAQ Not Saudi Arabia

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From post number 4 - I have traced the reference back to this:

Imam Yaqut al-Hamawi. Mu’jam al-Buldan. p. Vol.19 Pg.265.

I have been unable to find a 19 volume version of Mu’jam al-Buldan - instead I have found a 5 volume version of the same work. It would make it easier if the 19 (plus?) volume version was given more accurately in the post.

The reference of many Najds remains to be substantiated as far as this thread is concerned.

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Here is an article that puts a neat circle around both Iraq and the Saudi Najd regions together.

The argument may not be whether Iraq is or is not Najd. The argument is whether Riyadh and the local region is or is not part of it.

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For post number 5 - The following commentary:

a) Reply to Najd hadith:

The response here starts with a disclaimer of a Qur'anic ayat. The post hence presupposes that falsehood is mixed with truth and as a response it is provided to pilot the counter response - this is not good practice as it will affect the readership psychologically to infer that malpractice has occurred, whereas in fact there is only a claim of malpractice here and that too remains to be substantiated.

There is a hadith that is taken from Musnad Ahmad:
Reference:-Musnad-e-Ahmad Vol.10 Page.391 Hadith.6302 or 6129, Isnad considered Sahih by the Muhaddith Ahmad Shakir al-Masry
It is titled Hadith 1: Before cross-examining the hadith reference and ascertaining the translation - The suggestion here is that this hadith is covering the exact same topic as the hadith of the najd or else it would not be presented in this way. Whether this hadith is in fact alluding to the same is probably hinged on the phrase "from there appears the horn of satan". What needs to then be ascertained is whether the phrase "there appears the horn of satan" is location specific. In other words that it is specifically Iraq and no where else.

We also know that the phrase "horns of satan" has been used in another context too.

Narrated in Saheeh al-Bukhaari (581) and Saheeh Muslim (831) that it is forbidden to pray after Fajr prayer until the sun has risen above the horizon to the height of a spear, at the time of noon when the sun is at its zenith, and after the time of ‘Asr until the sun is fully set. The Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) told us that the sun rises and sets between the two horns of a devil, at which time the kuffaar prostrate to it. Here the "horns of a devil" is clearly meant in terms of time.

Should it be the case that there are more candidates for "horn of satan" then it cannot be said that the region known as Al-Najd is not the same Najd as in the hadith. It could still be the case. Furthermore, this hadith refers to Iraq by name ... which could either mean these two are synonymous or they are different and the Najd refers to the Najd we know as the region in Saudi Arabia. We might however, be able to get some more information from the other ahadith in the articles above. So we cannot form any opinions yet.

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Walaikum salaam wa rehmatullah brother Psyah,

Love the topic and research so far. InshaAllah please keep posting on this.

Re: Al-Najd - What is it?

The name of the scholar who is said to have given Sahih ruling on the hadith that explicitly mentions Iraq was Sh. Ahmad Shakir.

This is his Wiki page. Ahmad Shakir was Al-Azhari and was around post WWII.

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^which Hadith?

Salam to all

Edit: its the first Hadith mentioned by the article, will comment later

Re: Al-Najd - What is it?

The land of Najd, which for two centuries has been the crucible of the Wahhabi doctrine, is the subject of a body of interesting hadiths and early narrations which repay close analysis. Among the best-known of these hadiths is the relation of Imam al-Bukhari in which Ibn Umar said: ‘The Prophet (s.w.s.) mentioned: “O Allah, give us baraka in our Syria, O Allah, give us baraka in our Yemen.” They said: “And in our Najd?” and he said: “O Allah, give us baraka in our Syria, O Allah, give us baraka in our Yemen.” They said: “And in our Najd?” and I believe that he said the third time: “In that place are earthquakes, and seditions, and in that place shall rise the devil’s horn [qarn al-shaytan].”’

This hadith is clearly unpalatable to the Najdites themselves, some of whom to this day strive to persuade Muslims from more reputable districts that the hadith does not mean what it clearly says. One device used by such apologists is to utilise a definition which includes Iraq in the frontiers of Najd. By this manoeuvre, the Najdis draw the conclusion that the part of Najd which is condemned so strongly in this hadith is in fact Iraq, and that Najd proper is excluded. Medieval Islamic geographers contest this inherently strange thesis (see for instance Ibn Khurradadhbih, al-Masalik wa’l-mamalik [Leiden, 1887], 125; Ibn Hawqal, Kitab Surat al-ard [Beirut, 1968],18); and limit the northern extent of Najd at Wadi al-Rumma, or to the deserts to the south of al-Mada’in. There is no indication that the places in which the second wave of sedition arose, such as Kufa and Basra, were associated in the mind of the first Muslims with the term ‘Najd’. On the contrary, these places are in every case identified as lying within the land of Iraq.

The evasion of this early understanding of the term in order to exclude Najd, as usually understood, from the purport of the hadith of Najd, has required considerable ingenuity from pro-Najdi writers in the present day. Some apologists attempt to conflate this hadith with a group of other hadiths which associate the ‘devil’s horn’ with ‘the East’, which is supposedly a generic reference to Iraq. While it is true that some late-medieval commentaries also incline to this view, modern geographical knowledge clearly rules it out. Even the briefest glimpse at a modern atlas will show that a straight line drawn to the east of al-Madina al-Munawwara does not pass anywhere near Iraq, but passes some distance to the south of Riyadh; that is to say, through the exact centre of Najd. The hadiths which speak of ‘the East’ in this context hence support the view that Najd is indicated, not Iraq.

On occasion the pro-Najdi apologists also cite the etymological sense of the Arabic word najd, which means ‘high ground’. Again, a brief consultation of an atlas resolves this matter decisively. With the exception of present-day northern Iraq, which was not considered part of Iraq by any Muslim until the present century (it was called ‘al-Jazira’), Iraq is notably flat and low-lying, much of it even today being marshland, while the remainder, up to and well to the north of Baghdad, is flat, low desert or agricultural land. Najd, by contrast, is mostly plateau, culminating in peaks such as Jabal Tayyi’ (1300 metres), in the Jabal Shammar range. It is hard to see how the Arabs could have routinely applied a topographic term meaning ‘upland’ to the flat terrain of southern Iraq (the same territory which proved so suitable for tank warfare during the 1991 ‘Gulf War’, that notorious source of dispute between Riyadh’s ‘Cavaliers’ and ‘Roundheads’).

Confirmation of this identification is easily located in the hadith literature, which contains numerous references to Najd, all of which clearly denote Central Arabia. To take a few examples out of many dozens: there is the hadith narrated by Abu Daud (Salat al-Safar, 15), which runs: ‘We went out to Najd with Allah’s Messenger (s.w.s.) until we arrived at Dhat al-Riqa‘, where he met a group from Ghatafan [a Najdite tribe].’ In Tirmidhi (Hajj, 57), there is the record of an encounter between the Messenger (s.w.s.) and a Najdi delegation which he received at Arafa (see also Ibn Maja, Manasik, 57). In no such case does the Sunna indicate that Iraq was somehow included in the Prophetic definition of ‘Najd’.

Further evidence can be cited from the cluster of hadiths which identify the miqat points for pilgrims. In a hadith narrated by Imam Nasa’i (Manasik al-Hajj, 22), ‘A’isha (r.a.) declared that ‘Allah’s Messenger (s.w.s.) established the miqat for the people of Madina at Dhu’l-Hulayfa, for the people of Syria and Egypt at al-Juhfa, for the people of Iraq at Dhat Irq, and for the people of Najd at Qarn, and for the Yemenis at Yalamlam.’ Imam Muslim (Hajj, 2) narrates a similar hadith: ‘for the people of Madina it is Dhu’l-Hulayfa - while on the other road it is al-Juhfa - for the people of Iraq it is Dhat Irq, for the people of Najd it is Qarn, and for the people of Yemen it is Yalamlam.’

*These texts constitute unarguable proof that the Prophet (s.w.s.) distinguished between Najd and Iraq, so much so that he appointed two separate miqat points for the inhabitants of each. For him, clearly, Najd did not include Iraq.

*Ulama’ consensus on Najd hadith?

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Misc. Articles - Puncturing the Devil’s Dream About the Hadiths of Najd and Tamim

It is striking that not one of the great muhaddiths, mufassirs, grammarians, historians, or legists of Islam has emerged from the region known as Najd, despite the extraordinary and blessed profusion of such people in other Muslim lands. This essay offers to Muslims with open minds an explanation of this remarkable fact.

“Najd” infered here is Central Arabia

Re: Al-Najd - What is it?

Personal thought:

The region known as Najd can either be:

a) Iraq
b) Central Arabia
c) Both

The du'a that was not done for "The Najd" could either be for:

a) Iraq
b) Central Arabia
c) Both

On the other hand the blessings were sent to:

a) Syria
b) Yemen

They were not sent to:

a) Iraq
b) Central Arabia

The blessings were not sent to this region either because they were not included in that particular blessing or because they were going to be the place where fitna comes.

So we conclude:

Syria and Yemen is blessed and both Iraq and Central Arabia are not blessed because:

a) Iraq is the place of fitna and Central Arabia is merely not included in that particular blessing ... or
b) Central Arabia is the place of fitna and Iraq is merely not included in that particular blessing ... or
c) Both are places of fitna

In other words the best situation for Central Arabia is that Syria and Yemen both have something that it does not have ... That Central Arabia is just an average place with no significance or at worst it is indeed the place of fitna spoken about in the hadith.

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Does Najd mean high ground?

Let’s see … if it does mean that we can check that against a physical atlas … Iraq should be higher than other places …

As can be seen the region known as Iraq is mainly in the green colour range - which is indicative of it being low ground. Yemen and Syria both blessed as they are higher that Iraq in distance above sea level. On the other hand the Central Arabian land mass is higher than Iraq and constitutes a largely flat massive expanse that is quite high above sea level. This results in no easy access to water and no rivers. Two major life giving rivers flow through Iraq.

Had Iraq been high ground on the off chance even then it would be hard to consider “najd” in the hadith to mean “high ground” because of the irony it would form with the Syria and Yemen. To explain …

Let’s assume Iraq was geographically high ground … but we know that Syria and Yemen both are high ground too. So then if we say, bless our Syria, bless our Yemen and then say bless our Najd and it was not blessed - if Najd meant “high ground” then all three Syria, Yemen and Iraq would be included and since Syria and Yemen were already both included in the blessing it would be an obscurity to infer that in the case of the word “Najd” it did not allude Syria and Yemen but did allude to Iraq.

Now knowing that Iraq is not high ground at all … It is even more absurd to infer that Syria and Yemen are blessed because the “highland” will not be blessed … but Syria and Yemen are the highlands compared to Iraq.

May be the word does not actually mean “highland” in the geographical sense - then in which sense does it mean it … As far as the google translate engine is concerned the word Najd means plateau …

So let’s see what a plateau means …


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The argument of Najd being a modern term for Central Arabia

Why would anyone change the name of an area to a problematic name?
The same region normally referred to as Najd in Saudi is not called by that name anymore ... at least not by certain people.
It makes sense they will not want to call it Najd ... but what was the motivation many years back to start calling that region Najd if indeed it was not called by that name in the formative Islamic years?

Don't you think it is rather obscure to choose to name a region by a name that is controversial? Had it been called that since earlier times then the name sticks but if the claim that it was later named Najd - that needs to be proven and a clear explanation given as to why it acquired this name when historically it was not called by that term.

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You're getting too complicated. Every desi knows that Saudis have caused a boatload of problems for today's ummah.

It's a no brainer. Najd is Saudi. Plus minus Iraq, not surprising being the rise of ISIS there.

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one can easily figure out from where Alqaeda and ISIS are coming from, and can that be ‘khair’ for Islam or not.

ahlus sunnah wal jamah: HADITH OF NAJD : PART 1

Narrated Ibn 'Umar: (The Prophet) said, “O Allah! Bless our Sham and our yemen.” People said, “Our Najd as well.” The Prophet again said, “O Allah! Bless our Sham and yemen.” They said again, “Our Najd as well.” On that the Prophet said, “There will appear earthquakes and afflictions, and from there will come out the side of the head of Satan.” (Book #17, Hadith #147, Bukhari)

"I heard the Holy Prophet (Sallal Laahu Alaihi Wasallam) as saying that as the Day of Qiyamah approaches there will appear a group of youths with a low mental capacity and understanding, apparently they will talk of good but their Imaan will not go beyond their throat and they will leave the true Deen like an arrow leaves the prey. Wherever you find them, you should make Jihaad with them. ( Bukhari)

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**Narrated Ibn ‘Umar: (The Prophet) said, “O Allah! Bless our Sham and our yemen.” People said, “Our Najd as well.” The Prophet again said, “O Allah! Bless our Sham and yemen.” They said again, “Our Najd as well.” On that the Prophet said, “There will appear earthquakes and afflictions, and from there will come out the side of the horn of Satan.” (Book #17, Hadith #147, Bukhari)

**That is the place of Khawarij:the Messenger of Allah, Salla Allahu Alayhi Wasallam, said regarding a man who once accused him of injustice,

“***From among the offspring of this man there will rise a people who will read the Quran but it will not go beyond their throats (meaning it will not enter their hearts). They will kill Muslims and spare Idol-worshippers. They will deviate from Islam ***(as fast and clean) ***as an arrow pierces the game. If I live to witness their appearance, I will kill them as the people of ‘Aad ***(whom Allah utterly destroyed and annihilated because of their disbelief) were killed.” [Al-Bukhari & Muslim].


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I have got one simple question here. The ahadeeth that we have regarding this najdi fitna have taken out Syria and Yemen from the equation.

If we go east from Madinah we have one Najd (in Saudia), and another one in northern Iraq (which is North East from Madinah). Iraq’s highlands are basically northern Iraq (areas where Kurds reside now?), which used to be called aljazira back then. Perhaps this area was never consider part of Iraq. Proper Iraq consists of plains. If we want to lump the highlands of Saudia and Iraq it would be highlands then plains and then highlands again (North Iraq).

For educational purposes lets take the whole area east of Madinah (Saudi plus Iraq) as medieval Najd, now please educate us about the groups emanating from this area and what impact they are having for Islam? What ideology these groups follow?

Another thing is that we tend to make a supposition that Iraq and Syria of today had the same boundaries back then.

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