I am not sure if it is true or not but came across this article
Re: Air Blue Crash - HiJacked by BlackWater
hmmm..
need more proof though
Re: Air Blue Crash - HiJacked by BlackWater
where was this published? Roznama 'Baat kaa batangaR' ?
Re: Air Blue Crash - HiJacked by BlackWater
This makes more sense
Did a google on this subject and found the following comment;
[QUOTE]
May I try and put some perspective on this for those above who don’t seem to know much about aviation but are writing anyway:
If you are using runway 12 as it seems (the Murree road side) there is no ILS. The ILS is on runway 30 (the opposite side). So the procedure (which I never thought was safe) is you fly the ILS to 30 and then you break off and turn right and fly parallel to the Margalla hills and then turn back in and land on 12. It’s not a circle but more of a race-track pattern.
You may ask why not have the aircraft turn left rather than right towards the Margalla Hills. The reason is that on the left of runway 30 is Dhamial Air Base, GHQ and so on and as far as I remember that is all so-called “Restricted” airspace. You cannot fly over it.
This is CFIT (Controlled Flight Into Terrain) not as stated above.
Final point, when you are flying parallel to the Margalla Hills, you are required to keep the airport on your left in sight. So I can visualize the captain in the left seat looking left. Maybe the F/O was flying and craning his neck too. They just seem to have drifted into the Margalla Hills — perhaps because of high winds. They lost what is called “Situational Awareness”. Basically they did not know where they were.
May those who perished rest in eternal peace.
[/QUOTE]
Re: Air Blue Crash - HiJacked by BlackWater
I agree with Mr Bhand and T1 hazar
Re: Air Blue Crash - HiJacked by BlackWater
haha.. now we have blackwater suicide attackers.. havent heard any western group nowadays killing themselves.. plus why they were sleeping all the time when the plane was not allowed to land due to bad weather.. idiotic theory..
Re: Air Blue Crash - HiJacked by BlackWater
Heres what Captain Amjad Faizi has to say;
*Captain Amjad Faizi retired from PIA as a 747 captain and Director Flight Safety. He was interviewed by Associated Press of Pakistan about the Air Blue Islamabad crash two weeks ago in which all 152 aboard perished.
He makes some interesting points, including the state of flight safety in developing countries and strong words about Air Blue’s CEO.
(Captain Amjad was commanding a PIA Boeing 720 flight which made a nosewheel-up landing at Karachi 20 years ago. Hear the r/t from the reporting of the nosewheel failing to extend, to the touchdown. Gets more interesting as events develop. This link takes you to the first part. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9ESJhWfQaKo Thumbnails for subsequent parts are on each page)*
Question: Captain Faizi, you investigated the Kathmandu accident when a PIA Airbus struck mountains during its approach to land at the airport. Today, we have an Air Blue strike a mountain during circling to land at Islamabad Airport. Do you see any similarities, any common factor in the two fatal accidents? Please do be candid and forthright when responding!
Answer: I do not intend to be anything but candid. Let me be very forth right to state that all accidents, world over, are the failure of top echelon of management. As such, all management systems of Air Blue also need to be scrutinized.
Moreover, their failure to deal with the ‘after-accident’ chaotic and pain-filled circumstances only goes to show that Air Blue management was rather ill-prepared to deal with any eventuality. They definitely need to invest in some appropriately tailored ‘Emergency Response Plan’
Having said that let me draw the parallels:
Both accidents are labeled as CFIT; short for ‘Controlled Flight into Terrain’. Incidentally, 75% of all CFIT accidents are borne by the airlines belonging to the so-called Third World
Primary Cause of Kathmandu was Human Factors and all findings thus far brought forth in this accident, are indicating toward Human Factors as the basic ‘Cause’.
I hope you realize that 80% of all accidents, world over, are attributed to Human Factors. I also hope you realize that Pilot Error is a gross misnomer and often maliciously used
Third parallel I draw is the similarity in inclement cloudy weather, obscuring the mountains
And the last one that both flights were commanded by hugely experienced captains
Question: These are lot many common factors. Tell us frankly rather bluntly; in your opinion, what do you think actually happened? Please don’t be diplomatic
Answer: I need not be evasive or diplomatic. But I must not deviate from the facts. The fact is that I DO NOT know for sure what did happen. When cockpit perishes in such accidents one must realize that all eye witnesses are dead.
As such, it would amount to being entirely dishonest to spell out a ‘Cause’ without recording statements of the dead crew. No wonder, we need the deciphering of Digital Flight Data Recorder (DFDR), often called Black Box and also the augmentation of Cockpit Voice Recorder to sketch out the last moments of the ill-fated flight. However, I do have a theory which I can share but with strict understanding that it would not affect the thinking of appointed investigators.
Incidentally, DFDR or the Black Box is normally painted RED!
Question: . Thank you for the information on Black Box. We also do understand the limitations and the legalities thereof. Anyway, let us share what you think may have happened!
Answer: As I am only guessing, I would like to put forth only one possibility. Please bear with me as I unfold:
My Synopsis:
Turning Right after sighting Runway 30 is the starting point of this disaster. Just when the flight rolled out on the new heading, a technical fault was noticed. Or some important point came up for discussion. Or some other distraction occurred.
First Officer being so new, the Captain felt obliged to personally investigate the snag or indulge in the discussion or pay attention to the distraction.
As a result, both crew members got so engrossed and busy that they forgot to turn left in order to parallel the runway. Or they may have turned partially left to parallel but not exactly.
Normally off-set heading is flown for forty five (45) seconds but in this case, the off-set distance suggests that flight continued on the off-set heading for almost three minutes (03)
I have a feeling this is exactly what would be revealed when DFDR is finally deciphered and read. Knowing the Captain for as long as I have, it is simply not conceivable that he would end up where he did without being distracted.
Avoiding the weather in close vicinity of the airport is not the probability as he could have turned to left instead of right at the time of deciding to circle. Moreover, in such a case he would not have changed over from Radar Control to Tower. Additionally, Radar would have informed the Captain about the weather if recorded on ‘Downwind’ or ‘Base’ leg
A-321 being a two-man cockpit, with First Officer on his second flight, overly protective attitude of the Captain is understandable. But it did prove fatal. In two-man cockpit, one pilot must keep flying and the other pilot is supposed to do what is needful. However, in this case, I suspect both pilots got involved in resolving an issue
Such a situation used to arise often enough before Crew Resource Management Training (CRM) was made mandatory. This seems to be a clear case of ‘Poor Situational Awareness’ on the part of both crew members
In this accident Tower and Radar Control have played a decisive role. Had they broken out of their ‘Advisory Mold’ and exhibited ‘Assertiveness’, this disaster could have been avoided
However, it amounts to wishful thinking as all ATC personnel are trained to act in ‘Advisory’ capacity and not otherwise. The only way out would be if CAA decided to impart CRM training to all ATC personnel.
Primary CAUSE:
Human Factors have caused this accident. Briefly enough, Poor Situational Awareness on part of crewmembers, which coupled with Lack of Assertiveness on the part of ATC Controllers has caused this accident.
Other Possibilities:
o Incapacitation of a crew member
o Uncontrolled Flight conditions
Question: We keep hearing about Human Factors. What is the difference in between Pilot Error and Human Factors? What are Human Factors and how important are these?
Answer: Too many questions. I would like to begin answering it by submitting that pilots don’t commit suicides. They are very sane human beings. Having said that let us take your questions one by one.
Pilot Error would primarily be due to proficiency failure like inadequate training or not possessing the requisite skill. Such Pilot Errors contribute to less than 1.5% of all investigated accidents.
Commercial pilots are perhaps the best trained professionals in the world as their license is re-validated every six months. This is done only after they pass five tests like technical knowledge evaluation, route check, simulator check, extensive medical examination and proof for attending a CRM workshop. No other professional, world over, is so minutely, so often and so vigorously checked and re-checked.
Answering second part of your question; Human Factors is a new discipline to harness human behavior. As such, Human Factors are now nomenclature, prioritized and sub factorized. Let me share the four Human Factors as prioritized. These are;
- Breakdown of inter-personal communications. (May it be personal, social or professional mode)
- Non-application of Active Listening
- Lack of Assertiveness &
- Poor Situational Awareness
These are then sub-factorized and sub-sub-factorized. You may recall that I have already pointed out to two Human Factors which may have caused this accident.
How important are the Human Factors? One cannot even begin to fathom their importance. Experts agree that not only 80% of all aviation-related accidents are caused by Human Factors but 80% of corporate failures are attributable to Human Factors. Some think that 80% of all divorces and strained relationships are caused by Human Factors.
Coming back to this accident, I suggest that a Human Factors expert be included in the investigation team. Only then meaningful conclusions would be reached
Question: In one of your recent interviews, you talked about some variance in Safety Performance. What is it all about?
Answer: I was pointing to a gaping gap in the Safety Performance of the Developed World as compared to the Developing World. Let me explain.
52% of total commercial aviation activity takes place within the continent of North America, meaning USA & Canada. Another 32% of commercial flying is done jointly by Western Europe, Japan, Australia, Singapore etc Remaining 16% is shared by the entire Developing World, including Pakistan.
Most alarming fact is that Developed World, responsible for 84% of commercial flying suffers only 30% of hull loses and fatal accidents. Whereas, the Developing World, doing only 16% of airline operations bears loss of 70% airliners
These statistics, shocking as these are, indicate the lack of Safety Awareness in our part of the world. We simply do not have Safety Culture and to me, it is yet another cause of this accident
Question: Captain Faizi, what do you think of the statement of the Managing Director of Air Blue, Mr. Shahid Khaqaan Abbasi. He has minced no words in blaming the pilot.
Answer: I have read the news with total dismay. How someone so highly placed in commercial airline can indulge in such lowly activity! I feel sick. It is outright disgraceful.
Please forgive me for harsh words but it is men like Mr. Abbasi who bring disrepute to airline industry.
Shocking as it is that Mr. Abbasi who is also part-time pilot of yesteryears, is so grossly clueless about the recently discovered pitfall known as Human Factors and global misnomer called ‘Pilot Error’
Question: Any idea why did he come out blaming the pilot?
Answer: I am not sure about his motives. May be he is trying to hide shortcomings of Air Blue behind the body of dead pilots. I sincerely hope he knows that every accident is caused because of Management Failure. His effort to malign dead pilots is malicious enough to be strongly condemned. It is indeed a sad day in the history of Pakistan Civil Aviation
Trying to blame the pilot without authentication of Digital Flight Data Recorder (DFDR), often called Black Box and also the augmentation of Cockpit Voice Recorder (CVR) is personal crime on the part of Mr. Abbasi.
In my opinion Mr. Abbasi should have waited for the Inquiry Commission to complete the assigned task. Besides, Mr. Abbasi as the head of Air Blue, is bound to be scrutinized during investigations. Who knows the investigators discover that Air Blue did not conduct Human Factors training which was appropriate enough.
Question: In your opinion what did happen?
Answer: To me, it is a clear cut case of Human Factor causing a CFIT Briefly, it is obviously a situation of ‘Distraction’ causing Poor Situational Awareness, which when coupled with Lack of Assertiveness, as exhibited by ATC, caused this accident.
Question: Can you elaborate?
Answer: My strong hunch is that turning Right after sighting Runway 30 the pilot turned to an off-set heading, he was distracted. It could be due to a technical malfunction or some operational issue or an unexpected intruder. Whatever the reason for ‘Distraction’ may be, the pilots instead of flying for 45 seconds before turning left back to 300, have continued on the off-set heading of 330 to 345 degrees; thereby losing the Situational Awareness, which is one of the four Human Factors. I have a feeling this is exactly what DFDR would reveal when finally read.
Contributory factor is definitely ‘Lack of Assertiveness’ which is yet another Human Factor.
Question: You think Mr. Abbasi was wrong in calling this Pilot Error?
Answer: As wrong as one can get. But Mr. Abbasi is nobody’s fool. I have a strong feeling he is trying to mislead the investigators and at the same time shore up the sagging reputation of Air Blue. It is his choice but I dare suggest that he should not try to malign professional pilots
Wallah o Alam
Re: Air Blue Crash - HiJacked by BlackWater
the urdu part part in post #1 is BS
and a reminder for those that write such garbage, it isnt easy to destroy Kahuta complex by crashing a plane on it
Re: Air Blue Crash - HiJacked by BlackWater
The very useful information by James Bhand. Plane could have been landed just one minute before the accident and Kahuta comes before landing on right side. Normal landing. what black water men were doing before. a very nonsense thinking of some one.
Just want to ad for your information that Shahid Khaqan is deeply interested to take our PIA and some people count that a reason of losses to PIA. (some conspiracy)
Re: Air Blue Crash - HiJacked by BlackWater
We (Pakistanis) try to find conspiracy (specially American conspiracy) in everything including the occasional constipation
Re: Air Blue Crash - HiJacked by BlackWater
Blackwater doesn't do suicide missions. Does it?
Re: Air Blue Crash - HiJacked by BlackWater
There is no blaaaack vaater in Pakistan as per Rahman Malik
Re: Air Blue Crash - HiJacked by BlackWater
retards can go to any length ,black water bul****.
same retards call bombay terror attack inside job
same goes with 9/11 attack
still to come mosad ,cia,and raw theory by retards of pakistan. how shame ful
Re: Air Blue Crash - HiJacked by BlackWater
yes yes we all know what happened. it was hijacked by blackwater people, hit by a missile then the rasikhul aqida musalman pilot did a rashid minhas move while telling the air traffic controller that all the evidence is in the black box + voice box please make sure no confusion about recovery.
Re: Air Blue Crash - HiJacked by BlackWater
I generally avoid commenting on affairs that do not involve India. I'm making an exception, because I think we need some balance here. Being a pilot myself, I have a commercial pilots' certification from the FAA, have flying for more than a decade, and am certified on jets, it's clear that this thread is full of conjecture. As a caveat, I'm not a professional pilot.
The First Officer on this flight may have been making his second commercial flight, but that does not mean he was not capable. The FO, on any flight, is as capable as the Captain of flying the aircraft. He has underwent extensive type training in a simulator, flown as FO with trainers in aircraft, and was a Captain in a smaller aircraft. In short, he was as much a pilot as the captain and didn't just jump into the right seat without experience. Even when you become a captain, you still have your first flight in command.
The A321 is an advanced aircraft. It is equipped with state of the art electronic and avionics. There would have been all sorts of bells and alerts going off when the aircraft came too close to the ground, including a loud audible warning, that even broadcasts into the earphones, that simply says: Pull Up, Pull Up.
Something catastrophic happened on the flight and a 152 people lost their lives. It could have been anything, including pilot error. As a human gesture, we all owe it to them to show respect and reverence. Let the authorities conclude their investigation, no matter how long it takes. They will find out what caused it. Let's not jump the gun.
Re: Air Blue Crash - HiJacked by BlackWater
Some of the bodies were not ‘circumcised’
j/k 
Re: Air Blue Crash - HiJacked by BlackWater
yep, First Officer was a former F16 pilot.
as for the article, since there were two Americans as passengers in the flight and US embassy didnt provide any more information that is why we see so many discrepancies behind the real cause of the crash.
here is an other theory
ps. may ALLAH SWT give patience to the affected families and rest the souls in peace. Ameen
Re: Air Blue Crash - HiJacked by BlackWater
[mod]A thread without a valid URL link specially in the thread opening statement can not be allowed for discussion in the forum. Thread opener can pm the URL link for the thread opening news item to anyone of the moderators and we will open the thread once again for further discussion. This is to avoid speculative discussion in the forum...[/mod]