Ahmedi's and Guru Nanak

I was talking to my friend today who calls himself Ahmedi. He told me that the number one reason he believes Ahmedi’s are correct in their beliefs is because the one proclaimed Ahmedi’ism stated that he was a prophet and that he predicted many things and they all came true, and not only that, but he said his message would spread to the ends of the earth, and according to my friend it has, therefore he cannot be a liar.

He also stated that Ahmedi’s are the largest growing “sect” of islam, and that in the near future, they will be the leading “sect” as opposed to sunni’s. He said last year 70 million ppl become Ahmedi.

I would like to know the reference for this, and your thoughts, without insulting Ahmedi’s or sunni’s and the like in this thread. Because then this thread will be closed and I dont want that.

Secondly, this same friend stated that Guru Nanak was infact muslim. That he wore something that had the kalma on it, etc.

Your thoughts, references and opinions please. Thanks.

okay my question, how can one call himself a muslim if he doesn't believe Hazoor sallalahu-alehyi-wasallam as a last prophet of Allah Subhana-ho-ta'alah and in Allah's book, Quran words?

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ~TaNhAyAaN~: *
okay my question, how can one call himself a muslim if he doesn't believe Hazoor sallalahu-alehyi-wasallam as a last prophet of Allah Subhana-ho-ta'alah and in Allah's book, Quran words?
[/QUOTE]

I asked him if he believed the Prophet was the last prophet. He said that he believed the Prophet(SAW) was the seal of the prophets, but the seal to him does not mean the last prophet. The interpretation of the word "khatam" is translated differently. Something like "khateem" or something, thats what he told me, which to him means something different than "the last". That was his explanation.

He knows kalma?

Re: Ahmedi's and Guru Nanak

[QUOTE]
Originally posted by Munni: *
I was talking to my friend today who calls himself Ahmedi. He told me that the number one reason he believes Ahmedi's are correct in their beliefs is because **the one proclaimed Ahmedi'ism stated that he was a prophet
*
[/quote]
Most ahmadies on this board have been denying this constantly while I have seen proofs of what your freind stated in books like Aina-e-kamaalaat-e-Islam and in the ahmadi news paper Al-Fazal

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Munni: *
and that he predicted many things and they all came true
[/quote]
None came true.. he never reached age of 80 as he predicted, never got married to Muhammadi Begum and later when got rejected rightaway the interpretation made of this prediction was the Nikkah in Jannah!?!

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Munni: *
this thread will be closed and I dont want that.
[/quote]
It will close eventually because many threads have discussed this issue very thorougly already... PLUS there are people here with great knowledge but less tolerance thus they themselves end up spoiling the main purpose of there own posts!

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Munni: *
Secondly, this same friend stated that Guru Nanak was infact muslim.
[/QUOTE]
I have heard that he was inspired by Islam too and one of his friend was infact muslim.. dunno rest!

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Munni: *

I asked him if he believed the Prophet was the last prophet. He said that he believed the Prophet(SAW) was the seal of the prophets, but the seal to him does not mean the last prophet. The interpretation of the word "khatam" is translated differently. Something like "khateem" or something, thats what he told me, which to him means something different than "the last". That was his explanation.
[/QUOTE]

khatam = seal

Islamic scholars based on ahaadeeth are united on the context of it that it means Seal on prophet hood.. as Rasoolulah (SAW) himself said: "LA NABI BA'ADI" .. "There is no prophet after me."

the interpretation of ahmadi's is that now every prophet will come after the approval of Muhammad (SAW) since he is the seal.. Ya'ani Mohrain laggaiN gee aur prophet aaiyen gey (Al ayaadh billah)

read this thread One of many that were closed!

Re: Ahmedi's and Guru Nanak

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Munni: *

He also stated that Ahmedi's are the largest growing "sect" of islam, and that in the near future, they will be the leading "sect" as opposed to sunni's. He said last year 70 million ppl become Ahmedi.

[/QUOTE]

i dont think there r 70 million ahmedis in the whole world so that number he mentioned seems very wrong....
maybe he meant 70 and the million just popped in....

and be very sure and clear that ahmedis r not a sect of islam, they r non-muslims....

Ahmadis, qadyanis,..etc.... hmmm....u add the rest! :)

armughal,

pleased to see you have attained the status of God and will decide who's muslim and who's not..

Munni, I hope your question was answered. The self appointed thekedaars of islam have shed emormous light on the subject. :rolleyes:

Why don’t you wait till Channji comes here and responds in earnest.

Without again start searing Munni look at some of the discussions on this topic we had here earliar..

http://www.gupistan.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73001&highlight=mirza

http://www.gupistan.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43830&highlight=mirza

http://www.gupistan.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=83972&highlight=mirza

http://www.gupistan.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&threadid=43528&highlight=mirza

Munni,

You have several questions into one. I thought you only wanted to know about Ahmadi view of Baba Guru Nanak. :slight_smile:

Anyway, the couple that I can answer:

**>>>>>but he said his message would spread to the ends of the earth, **

Your friend must be referring to the revelation of the Promised Messiah (as) that he received in 1891, and I quote:

*“I shall make thee known with honor to the ends of the earth and shall exalt thy name.”
*
This was a time when he, Hazrat Ahmad (as), had just initiated the Ahmadiyya movement 1889 and the persecution & opposition was mounting day after day and it peaked in the years ahead. Also, it is to be noted that at that time there were no Ahmadi missionaries outside of the Subcontinent. The Ahmadiyya Movement in Islam today has branches in up to 174 countries around the world & an estimated membership of 170 million. Contrary to common belief, the most number of Ahmadis are in Africa, India & Indonesia … but Pakistani Ahmadis indeed holds many recognitions.

You can read some overview of the Ahmadiyya Movement here: An Overview

**>>>> this same friend stated that Guru Nanak was in fact muslim. That he wore something that had the kalma on it, etc. **

This is true! According to Ahmadiyya belief, Hazrat Baba Guru Nanak is considered to be a pious Muslim leader who made peace between the Hindus & Muslims with his teachings. The cloth your friend might be referring to is called “Chola Baba Nanak”.

The Chola, or the cloak of Baba Nanak, is the holiest relic of the Guru and is preserved in Dera Baba Nanak, a small village in Gurdaspur District of the Punjab. This is a cloak which Nanak wore in his life-time and it is considered so sacred that his immediate followers took every care to keep it safe. The regard and reverence rendered to the Chola by the Sikh community is a testimony to the authenticity of the cloak. The words of Guru Nanak as contained in the Guru Granth Sahib (Sikh scriptures) were not collected until the time of Guru Arjan Dev, the fifth Guru, and therefore cannot be relied upon as accurate particularly as Sikhism had by that time assumed an attitude of hostility towards Islam. But the Chola is clear from this charge, because it was handed down by Nanak himself and has come down to our times in its original condition. It is commonly alleged that verses from different scriptures in different languages are written on the Chola. But this is not true. The verses chosen for writing on the Chola are quotations from the Holy Quran as revealed by photographs recently taken. The religion followed by the man can be none other than Islam.Source

Earlier it was believed that the Chola had verses from many different religions but Promised Messiah (as) took a special journey to Dera Nanak in Sep-Oct of 1895 and after persuading the Sikh guardians of the Chola, it was unwrapped in front of many witnesses and to surprise all the verses on the Chola are none other than Quranic Verses.

Sikhs believe that Hazrat Baba Guru Nanak didn’t wear the Chola but kept it because it was given to him as a gift from the then Caliph of Baghdad. Other Sikh members of gupshup can give you their part of the story a little better.

Re: Ahmedi's and Guru Nanak

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by Munni: *
He also stated that Ahmedi's are the largest growing "sect" of islam, and that in the near future, they will be the leading "sect" as opposed to sunni's. He said last year 70 million ppl become Ahmedi.

[/QUOTE]

Munni, I am pretty sure that you are aware of the fact that Ahmedi's are still and will be called as non-muslims regarless of their numbers in either millions or billions. Its not my law but Islamic Republic of Pakistan. Comparing them to sunnis will be out of question as per the above statement until unless the law changes and Pakistan accepts them as Muslims (which I don't see it happening in coming era). The dream will always be a dream (Insha-Allah).

Re: Ahmedi's and Guru Nanak

.

Was that NYAhmadi you spoke with, Munni?

:hehe:

My friend I spoke with is not a guppy. smile

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
armughal,

pleased to see you have attained the status of God and will decide who's muslim and who's not..
[/QUOTE]

   he just saying what is obvious..................

          they r not only non muslims thay r zandeeqs.........

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by PakistaniAbroad: *
armughal,

pleased to see you have attained the status of God and will decide who's muslim and who's not..
[/QUOTE]

and guess what?!?!
i rule u out of the circle os Islam too.... :)

[QUOTE]
*Originally posted by ~TaNhAyAaN~: *
okay my question, how can one call himself a muslim if he doesn't believe Hazoor sallalahu-alehyi-wasallam as a last prophet of Allah Subhana-ho-ta'alah and in Allah's book, Quran words?
[/QUOTE]

I agree