Ahmadi's view of Bahai's

Society Religion & Philosophy
101

For non-Muslims like us, quotes from Ahle-Hadith and others just bounce over the head.

My questions to Muslims is, What is the minimum requirement to be called a Muslim?

It is obeying the 5 pillars of Islam. I somewhere read the Prophet(PBUH) said the same thing when a devotee came to meet Him. The Ahmedis do obey the 5 pillars of Islam, then why don't you accept them? Aren't you contradicting the Prophet's teachings? And why not leave it to Allah (SWT) to decide who's a Muslim, who's a bad Muslim and who's a non-Muslim. Why burn your midnight oil on this matter? How do you know the All-Merciful, All-Compassionate will not forgive their digression on the day of judgement?

102

[quote]
Originally posted by ahmadjee:
Other than AnHazoor (saw) none other prophets were mentioned by the previous ones by name.

[/quote]

Ibrahim says: this is false

Read!

Jesus said:

Matthew 11:13. For all the Prophets and the Law prophesied until John.

  1. And if you are willing to accept it,** he is the Elijah who was to come.**

[quote]
For example, there is no prophacy in Old testament that the one to come as a Messiah will be named Issa.
[/quote]

Ibrahim says: also an error!

Read!

Isaiah 7:14. Therefore ** the Lord himself shall give you a sign;** Behold, ** a virgin shall conceive, and bear a son,** and shall call his name Immanuel.

Ibrahim says : One must understand the adherents of the altered scriptures altered the names in order to make their faith look different from Islam, Hence names in earlier scriptures will also be different.

103

I would just like to pose a question to you.

You quite clearly believe that Hazrat Isa AS did NOT ascend to the Heavens alive, but in death.

If this is genuinely the case, then why do the Ahmedies believe that Hazrat Isa AS is buried in Kashmir?

Surely to be buried in Kashmir, Hazrat Isa AS would of had to return to earth from Death as the Messiah, and then die, therefore nullifying Mirza Ghulams claim of the Messiah.

Furthermore, if this is the case, then Mirza Ghulam cannot also be accepted as the Al-Mehdi as he would not be eligible due to the original lie of claiming Messiah-Hood when Hazrat Isa AS had already fulfilled the Prophecy by returning.

Or,

If you accept that Hazrat Isa AS is not buried in Kashmir and died on the cross, then the whole Ahmedie movement falls apart. As this contradicts the Qur'aan:

That they said (in boast), "We killed Christ Jesus the son of Mary, the Apostle of Allah";- but they killed him not, nor crucified him, but so it was made to appear to them, and those who differ therein are full of doubts, with no (certain) knowledge, but only conjecture to follow, for of a surety they killed him not. Nay, Allah raised him up unto Himself; and Allah is Exalted in Power, Wise. 4:157-158.

This logic will then have to be applied to the founder Mirza Ghulam Ahmed.

The Qur'aan quite clearly tells us that Allah raised Hazrat Isa AS before the perpetrators could harm him in Isreal and not Kashmir!

So which opinion do you hold from the above!

104

Sholay,

I was hoping someone (Zalim bhai) else would answer the question you posed, so it doesn’t seem like a one-man show. :slight_smile: Oh well …

Anyway, your question is based on the assumption that **either **Ahmadis believe Hazrat Isa (as) (Naozobillah) died on the cross or that he was ascended to heaven & have come back already, and they both are wrong. To make things simple here is a run down of the beliefs regarding Jesus (as) crucifixion:

Jews Belief: They put the person Jesus of Nazareth to cross, and he died there – thus he (Naozobillah) died an accursed death and can’t be the Messiah. (Quran strongly rejects that)

Christian Belief: God made Jesus for crucifixion, for the sacrifice for the human kind to show the world how much He cares and he was ready for it. So, to them, Jesus was put to cross, he died there & then was in the cave for 3 days and came back to life! Talked to his disciples & then ascended to heaven.

Mainstream Muslim Belief: The person put to cross was not Jesus. Some believe it was a Roman soldier, some say he was an ordinary Jew. He was transformed into Jesus body (or shape), the Romans took him by mistake, crucified him! The real Jesus (as) ascended to heaven the night before, and so he is to return. (Please correct me if I am wrong)

Ahmadi Muslim Belief: The person put to cross was Jesus (as) himself (1). He did **not **die on the cross (2), but was unconscious or in coma when he came off of it (3). Then was treated for his wounds for a few days. When he was better, he came back to see his disciples (4). Later he migrated to “Lost sheep of Israel”. He preached to them the same teachings he preached to the two tribes of Israel present in Jerusalem at that time. Hazrat Ahmad (as) claimed that he is buried in Kashmir after Allah informed him! (5)

# 1: There is no mention in Quran that the person put to cross was not Jesus (as), it is only assumed! Jesus (as) prayers in the garden before the Romans came to get him, then his defending himself with arguments in front of the roman court & Jewish high priesthood, and later he is reported saying: “My God, my God, why have you forsaken me” being on the cross. These are just a few arguments that point that he cannot be any person transformed into the body of Jesus (as).

# 2. Quran clearly states that Jews think they killed him but it only appeared to them that they did. He didn’t die there.

# 3. He was only on the cross for a few hours (Zalim bhai please give the exact timings), and then due to Sabbath they took him off of the cross. There is no report, which states that they broke his bones, which was at times done to those put to cross. Bible says “Instead, one of the soldiers pierced Jesus’ side with a spear, bringing a sudden flow of blood and water.” And if a person is dead, the blood doesn’t rush out because there is no heart pumping!

# 4. Bible records his visit back, when he was seen walking with the same wounds. He even let his disciples touch his body to make sure it was the same Jesus.

# 5. For further reference, please read Promised Messiah (as) book 'Jesus in India’

Just a side note, Hazrat Mirza Sahib (as) did not believe from the beginning that Jesus (as) had died a natural death. He kept the same belief as the other entire mainstream Muslims, until Allah revealed to him that he had died.

[This message has been edited by ahmadjee (edited May 14, 2002).]

105

Re: Ahmadi’s view of Bahai’s

Hello,
What you have said is not true, it is not allowed for Baha’is to wed daughters and sisters, this saying is an invention of people who are opposed to the Baha’i faith.

Baha’is have obligatory prayers and fasting and Baha’u’llah admonished the rich saying, “the poor in your midst are my trust, guard ye my trust and be not intent only with your own ease”