Ahmadis ordered to kill their Daughters

Ahmadis in Israel

Kababeer, a small town on Mount Karmel in Haifa, Occupied Palestine in Israel, is the center of Ahmadiyya activities inside Israel. Established in 1928, 99% of the residents of this town belong to Ahmadiyya creed, whose ancestor, Mr. Abdul Qadir Odeh, was the first Palestinian to embrace Ahmadiyyat at the hand of an Ahmadiyya Missionary from India, Jalaluddin Shams, under the false impression that Mirza Ghulam is a reformer and a Mujaddid in Islam. Little did he know at the time that this reformer in Islam, had later claimed to have become a Promised Messiah and Prophet in his own right. Some 2000 members of this community belong to more or less to the same family. In recent years the numbers have been dwindling and currently they are estimated to be only around 850 Qadianis in Palestine.

Qadiani Community occupies a special place in the Israeli/Western clandestine world. They have played a significant role as spies during and the 1st and 2nd world wars in the Middle Eastern Region.

It is worth remembering that Kababeer is strategically located on Mount Karmel, overlooking the Athleeth Harbour and it Naval Base and Ordinance factory on one side and the Haifa Harbour on the other. 99% population of this town is Palestinian Arab belonging to Qadiani community. Zionists have known to displace/eleminate Palestinians from areas of much less importance. The village of Dier Yaseen was wiped from the face of earth, killing all its inhabitants. (Crossroads to Israel by Christopher Sykes, Promise and Fulfilment by Arthur Koestler, The Other Exodus by Erskine Childerns) and yet the same Zionists continue to tolerate Qadianis residence at such an important place for obvious reasons. Jama’at Ahmadiyya publishes its arabic propaganda literature by the name of AlBushra, from this place for distribution among the Arab World.

Even today Ahmadis play significant role in the Israeli administration. By taking advantage of their Palestinian origin, their muslim-sounding names and by the ignorance of people about the true nature of Ahmadiyya Movement, they play the role of fifth columnists among the Palestinian muslims, protecting the interest of their Masters. For instance:

Musa Sarwar: The Incharge of Passport and ID Card section in the Ministry of Interior.
Abdullah Asad: ‘Raees Bait-ul-Tasaareekh’ Incharge of the Dept which gives permission to build houses in Israel. No wonder Arab homes are every now and then being demolished. This man takes advantage of his Arab identity to inflitrate and perform his clandestine activities against arabs.
Ibrahim Asad: During 60s to 80s he was the Mossad agent in Germany but was deported when he was exposed. Now he is ‘Mufattish Fanni’ Inspector of Schools for Arabs. In this capacity he controls the kind of education and research is being done in Arab Colleges and Universities inside Israel. He never allows such research which can elevate the Palestinians inside Israel.
Jama’at Ahmadiyya has special links with the Zionist state. Ahmadiyya Headquarter play host to the Jewish Dignitaries from Israel. (Khatme Nabuwat Magazine Vol. 9. No. 5, P.8)
During the crackdown on Arabs inside Israel, as soon as the ID cards show the place of residence is Kababeer, soldiers allow the bearer of the card to go free, saying: Let him go. This is our man.

I (Dr. A Odeh) have been a born Ahmadi, an unfortunate event over which I had no control. I had been very active in various official capacities in the community - President Khuddamul Ahmadiyya, Member Majlis-e-Shoora, President of Stockholm Jamaat and finally President of Jamaat Ahmadiyya of Sweden, a post which I held till I denounced Mirza Ghulam A Qadiani and Ahmadiyyat in 1989. Fa AlHamdolillah 'ala zaalik. During my recent visit to Kababeer, I discovered some very startling things which I would like to share with my readers.
Like anywhere else in the Ahmadiyya Jamaat, the community in Israel is always controlled by the Missionary, who is usually a Punjabi Qadiani, usually bearing Indian Passport, since a Pakistani is not allowed in Israel. The post of Missionary or Mubasshir, as he is usually called, is a very lucrative one, giving a lot of material benefits. Missionary in Israel was not any different in that sense and this had created a lot of harsh feelings among the qadianis of Kababeer. The last Missionary, Mr Kauther Qadiani from India, made a lot of money in the name of collecting chanda for the new mosque. Ordinary qadianis grew resentful and tired of financial offerings to the Missionary in charge who was more interested in filling his pockets than doing tabsheer. They complained to the London headquarter and Mr Kauther was disgracefully removed in the summer of 1997.

These activities of Missioanries has resulted in the division of Jama’at into three factions in recent years:

True Ahmadis - who are with the Missionaries and thus with the London Leadership.
Ahmadies who are openly against Missionaries, but still respect the HQ.
Ahmadies who are least bothered about the present day Jamaat in London.
After the departure of Mr Kauther, a Palestinian, Mr. Falah Odeh, became a temporary Amir of the Israeli Jama’at. For a period of seven months, from June 1997 to Dec. 1997, there was no Missionary in Israel. In Dec 1997, a new young missionary, Mr. Baset Rasool Daar, arrived from India. He hailed from Kashmir and felt proud of his Jewish lineage, one of his parents being of Jewish descent.
Missionary order Qadianis to kill their daughters:
This new missionary who arrived at the end of 1997, was a young man, who speaks good English but knows only little Arabic. He had a uphill task of establishing the authority of Missionary-in-charge. Because of the dwindling population of Ahmadis, he
ordered all Ahmadis to fill in the Ba’ait form again. Palestinians in Isreal, Ahmadis and non-Ahmadis have been living a life where they were comfortably intermixing with Muslims, who are totally ignorant of the real beliefs of Mirza Ghulam A Qadiani. The younger generation is more open minded, and mixed marriages were not uncommon. Soon this new missioanry discovered that some of the girls belonging to the Qadiani families are either engaged or married to Muslims living in other areas.

One such person was M.A. Odeh who is the father of two grown up children. He is a born Qadiani, an Acamedician and a Contractor by profession. He had been a devout Ahmadi all his life and had previously taught at the Ahmadiyya School in Kababeer. His son is also a devoted Ahmadi and is close to the new missionary, Mr. Daar. When M.A. Odeh submitted the duly filled Ba’aith form for his family, Missionary refused to accept his Ba’aith form, until he forces his daughter to break the engagement with a Muslim. He asked the missionary what does he think of his son who is close to him. Missionary expressed his total satisfaction with the young ahmadi. M.A. then said that he gave the same upbringing to both his children, one chose to remain Ahmadi and the other chose to leave it. Missionary again asked him to force his daughter to break this engagement. When he expressed his inability to do that, to his utter dismay, missionary ordered him to kill his daughter. There was so much he can take. He started screaming at the missionary. The other person present tried to play down the whole issue by saying that the Missionary does not speak english well and perhaps there is some misunderstanding. But M.A., who himself speaks good English, said that Missionary speaks good English and there is no confusion what he is saying and that he wants me either to stop my daughter from getting married to a Muslim or kill her.

Another Ahmadi had a similar experience. M.M.Odeh is an iron monger by profession and lives beside the Ahmadiyya Mosque. He is a born Ahmadi with three grown up daughters. When he took his Ba’aith form, missionary refused to accept it until he force his daughter to break her engagement with a Muslim. When he expressed his inability to do that, Missionary ordered him to kill his daughter. M.M. could not believe his ears.

Similar incidents were reported with other Ahmadis whose daughters are engaged or married to Muslims. People are wondering what kind of a reformer/prophet Mirza was and what kind of Islam he is preaching? Holy Prophet Muhammad SAAW put an end to the killing of daughters by the pagan Arabs and this so-called prophet’s missionaries are asking them to kill their daughters!!!

While this controversy is continuing, a new, older Missionary, Mr. Mohammed Omar, has arrived from Qadian Indian, to contain the damage done by the militant approach of Mr. Baset Daar.

[This message has been edited by Mr Xtreme (edited June 06, 1999).]

hah! this shouldve been posted in the jokes forum! :)

Now that you people have completely failed to make your point through the koran, you have resorted to such gimmickry!

Dear extreme, i know where you copied this essay from :) it is so very depressing to see that you have followed the molvi without any investigation on your part, and have made a joker out of yourself! Atleast you shouldve given a reference to the original author so that the lies in this essay would have been associated to him! This , however, is not the case now! while i uncover your lies, there will be a serious damage to your reputition on the forum. ** You must not forget that you have already been banned from another discussion forum for doing that! **

In the name of allah, i start to uncover your lies :)

--------> ** lie #1 **

--- ** saying: **
*Little did he know at the time that this reformer in Islam, had later claimed to have become a Promised Messiah and Prophet in his own right. *

--- ** reply: **

Dear extreme, no such claim has been made by Mirza sahab, peace be upon him, to be a prophet in his own right, as is evident from the narrative type of language used in the essay, with no reference to where such claim has been made!
Mirza sahab claims:
* " I am not a law-bearer. One must keep in mind that although i have been called a nabi and a rasool, i have been informed by god, that these gifts are not directly for me, but through the prophet mohammad, may peace and blessings of allah be upon him."*
* " In such way, the seal of mohammad remains, because i have received this name in a reflective since." *
( aik ghalti ka azala, page 8-9 )

--------> ** lie #2 **

--- ** saying: **
* Qadiani Community occupies a special place in the Israeli/Western clandestine world. They have played a significant role as spies during and the 1st and 2nd world wars in the Middle Eastern Region. *

--- ** reply: **

This allegation is a lie in itself! First of all, i would like to ask my dear author as to which neutral book of history has recorded this? What is the source of this piece of "knowldge" ?
The author may post a lame reply saying that this has not been recorded in any neutral book of history because it is a secret! in such a case, i would ask the writer, that if it is a secret case and has been hidden, how did the writer get to know it?
the writer claims that * wahi * of allah will not descend any more. Which means he can not claim to know it thru a * wahi *!
However, the writer, as we will see, will fail to provide any other source of this knowledge.

I will prefer not to reply to the next part of the essay, which has been posted in a narrative style with no refence to where this knowledge was obtained from! The author has also named three people making allegations against them. Mr. extreme however failed to give the date when this essay was actually written, this could have helped me provide you people with the truth as to whether there are any such people on such posts or not!
It is interesting to note that although the author has discussed the personalities, he has not given any refernce to where this information can be confirmed from. How can the author claim there really ARE the same people on these posts as mentioned by the author, and whether or not their life history is the same as the author has guessed!

-----------> ** A hilarious allegation **

--- ** saying: **
* Jama'at Ahmadiyya has special links with the Zionist state. Ahmadiyya Headquarter play host to the Jewish Dignitaries from Israel. *(Khatme Nabuwat Magazine Vol. 9. No.5, P.8)

--- ** reply: **

This was a rather hilarious allegation, and above that the reference was more hilarious! note that the * khatame nabuwwat magazine * has been founded to negate the ahmedi beleifs, and is not a neutral magazine! If * time magazine * says Muslims are terrorists, and i quote it, will you believe in it? no! because you will blame it for not being neutral! how will you treat me if i quote an indian magazine to prove that pakistan is terrorist? ofcourse it will be pointless!
it is a normality with those possesing intellect that when references are made, such sources are refered to, which are neutral!
The website you copied the essay from, is authored by the people behind the * khatme nabuwwat magazine *. It is therefore an ill act to write something in your own magazine and then quoting it as a neutral source!
Secondly, * Khatme nabuwwat magazine * is authored by such people whose area of interest is religion. How can they be quoted for political statments?
It is equally stupid as quoting a cricket player about laws of hockey! :)
Also note that such an article has also been published in the * khatme nabuwwat magazine * and in that, no reference was given here! * khatme nabuwwat magazine * is not a jewsih political magazine, and therefore to prove its truth it must have referred to such a jewsih or ahmadi magazine or document where such plans as allegated in the essay, were written.

So you quoting * khatme nabuwwat magazine * is explained in urdu language proverb as " khawaje ka gawah duddoo!"

-----------> ** A hilarious allegation #2 **

--- ** saying: **
* During the crackdown on Arabs inside Israel, as soon as the ID cards show the place of residence is Kababeer, soldiers allow the bearer of the card to go free, saying: Let him go. This is our man. *

--- ** reply: **

That was actually funny! As we all know, mr. extreme has ** never ** experienced a crackdown against arabs! How did he come to know this? He dreamt of it?
Such people as those who believe in rationality will be thinking twice when actually taking anything written by you, serious.
You have posted such a goofy essay that it made me comment this essay should have been placed in the jokes forum! most of the readers will agree with me.

So, where did such a scene happen, when an israeli soldeir said, " let him go. this is our man!"
lol :)the israeli soldier must polish up his english grammer, and start using * he * third person, and not * this *.

Which magazine published this story?? * khatme nabuwwat magazine??? * :)

-----------> ** An imaginary character! :)**

--- ** saying: **
* I (Dr. A Odeh) have been a born Ahmadi................ *

--- ** reply: **

Very funny indeed! Out of all the world, doctor a odeh found mr. extreme to tell his story!! :)
This is to be concluded because there is no reference whatsoever to any interview being given to any magazine or any other publication! not even to * khatme nabuwwat magazine * !! :)

-------------> ** lie #3 **

--- ** saying : **
* The last Missionary, Mr Kauther Qadiani from India, made a lot of money in the name of collecting chanda for the new mosque. *

--- ** reply: **

It is interesting to note that if dr a odeh is a real ahmedi, and has been at such posts as mentioned in the essay, why does he know that ** all the * chanda * given to jama'at e ahmadiyya, either compulsory one, or one given at will, is replied by a reciept, and all such money that the jama'at recieves is first collected centrally, and then for any mosques to be made, this money is provided by the central leadership itself!

The budget documents of jama'at ahmadiyya are open to viewing not just to tax department officials but to all such people who seek to know about the financial system of the jama'at.
Too bad you character didnt know of it!

It is inetersting of mr extreme to make this allegation, because everyone living in pakistan knows that the ** molvis ** are the ones filling their pockets in the name of chanda! here in my colony, some molvis have illegally snatched a government plot which was intended for a community center, and have made their homes and a mosque on it! claiming that now that the mosque is built, it can not be demolshed so the plot belongs to them. This mosque also has very young boys and girls, who are taught koran by the molvis and in the evening, are sent to different houses to ask for any remaning food they have after the afternoon meal. This is then taken to the molvi sahab. To fill their stomach, they do not even care for the young children's self respect, forcing them to beg!

extreme sahab, doosron pay ilzaam laganay say pehlay apnay garebaan main jhaankain! there is a lot to be corrected in the muslims themselves, before pointing out problems in other faiths!

-------------> ** killing of daughters, the final comment **

strange, as this whole essay is, it was not stated where exactly does Mirza ghulam ahmed, the promissed messiah ordered anyone to kill his daughter! the allegation made on a missionary, is of no significance as their is no proof to its truth, therefore any such writing of Mirza sahab which allowed to kill the daughters will be the only way out of this!
Obviously, there isnt any!

------- ** part one **: forcing the children upon anything, is against the ahmadiyya belief!

Mirza sahab, peace be upon him,writes:

  • To guide and to teach is the act of God. Chasing too much, insisting beyond limit on every little matter, and to stop the children on every single thing, shows as if we are the ones who own the power to guide, and that we can force them to follow the true path. Such is a hidden form of shirk . Our community should keep away from such deeds.

We pray for our children, and make them follow our rules and laws at the minimum. Not more than that. After that we trust Allah, the most high.

Whatever seed of piousness exists in a child, will nourish and grow on proper time. *

On the contrary, the molvis argue that we must force children to follow islam, saying that anyone who changes to another religion from islam must be killed, and presenting such hadith which order one to beat their children to make them pray!

this is very obvious and a reader can decide as to who is the one to be allegated on such a thing.

------- ** part two **: Why ahmedis do not marry non ahmedis

It is repeatedly questioned here on this forum why the ahmedis do not marry non ahmedis. some other inquirers have been posting the same question time and again.

the main reason behind defaming the ahmdiyya community by showing one side of the story, is that although they can easily commit adultry with the girls of their own faith, they can go out, or date them. ahmedi girls, however do not agree to this.

Mirza ghulam ahmed of qadian, was of opinion, ( a very valid one, by the way ) that differences in religion among the parents leave the children in a great confusion! therefore for sake of children's healthy and positive upbringing, it is only suitable, that the parents should not have religious differences. Such children whose parents belong to different religion grow up to be confused.

------------------- ** Back at ya! **

now, we will observe some of the * fataawa * by muslim scholars, to actually realize who this allegation falls to.

  • ahmedis are murtid, and whoever in the whole world marries them, whether he be a muslim or a non muslim, believer or unbeliever, human being or an animal, will just be a complete ** adultry ** and their children will be ** bastards ** *
    ( maulana shah mustafa khan:al malfooz volume 2 page 97, 98 )

  • whoever believes in ahmedi belief is a kaafir, and their marriege with muslim does not remain. anyone can have sex with their wives. *
    ( molvi abdullah & abdul aziz: ashatus sunna volume 13 verse 5 )

  • whoever follows mirza is a kaafir murtid, and according to the law, his marriege does not remain, and his wife is not allowed to him, so if he sleeps with a muslim wife, it will be an ** adultry *, and his children will be * bastard **! *
    ( fataawa dar takfeer munkir urooj e jismi, published 1311 * hijri * )

----> ** peer muhammad ali shah **
in * makhawat museelma qadiani *

** The followes of mirza were disrespected a lot. they were thrown out of muslim mosques, and wherever they came to say their prayers, we kicked out disrespectfully. their wives were taken away from them, and thier dead were buried without bathing and * tajheez . *

there was no choice therefore, but to stop ourselves from parying behind and marrying in muslims! lest our children be called bastards!

It is ironic that the guy who first spoke about Palestinian problem to the world was an Ahmadi. The first Pakistani foreign secretary, Sir Chaudhary Zafarulla Khan, gave the longest speech (14 hour) ever to be given to the UN general assembly, hence internationalizing the Palestinian problem. Arab dignitaries attended his funeral while Zia-ul-haq acted like a chicken even to recognize Sir Zafarulla as a patriotic Pakistani.

Ahmadis' commitment to Palestinian cause is well known except to the ignorant mulla inspired lowlife knuckleheads who either have no brains or refuse to use one if they have.

Ok, NYAhmadi, that's enough of the sarcasm . I won't allow anymore posts by you with such content here so be careful - Roman ]

[This message has been edited by Roman (edited June 07, 1999).]

Mr Insignificance,

re your statement;

everyone living in pakistan knows that the ** molvis are the ones filling their pockets in the name of chanda! here in my colony, some molvis have illegally snatched a government plot which was intended for a community center, and have made their homes and a mosque on it! claiming that now that the mosque is built, it can not be demolshed so the plot belongs to them. This mosque also has very young boys and girls, who are taught koran by the molvis and in the evening, are sent to different houses to ask for any remaning food they have after the afternoon meal. This is then taken to the molvi sahab. To fill their stomach, they do not even care for the young children's self respect, forcing them to beg!<

Do you have any references or proofs of any of the above allegations? If not, then who are you to dismiss my essay on these same grounds? At least practise what you preach.

Re your comment;

while i uncover your lies, there will be a serious damage to your reputition on the forum. You must not forget that you have already been banned from another discussion forum for doing that!<

Actually this is information that I offered myself. I talk straight so I don't need to hide this fact that I was banned from a forum. It was run by someone like you so what did you expect?

I would just like to reiterate that I stand by every word in this article and in light of the serious and unsubstantiated allegations you have made against molvis I don't believe you have a leg to stand on viz-a-viz references.

NYAhmadi,

So this is the respect you have for Hazrat Mohammed sal allahu alaihi wassalam.

I hope you are not typical of all Ahmadis.

[This message has been edited by Roman (edited June 07, 1999).]

There are a few people on this forum who claimed to be athiest or follower of no religion but any time some one talk against some other religion, they jump in and spit their inside filth out.
For these People, I always say,
Khabasat is a nature and no one can change the nature of a Khabees.

and these Khabees are always admired by those who call themselve liberals and I call them liberal finatic with closed brains

This same person has done the same thing a few months back and there were not even a single warning.
The true examples of free world.
If some one use the insulting remarks about a member, that person gets kicked out but if some one uses his khbasat filthy mouth to tell that how filthy that person is inside, that is called the free world

NYAhmadi,
** MEIN AAP KO ALLAH KAY AZAAB SAY DARAATA HOON KAY PAHLAY SOCH LOH PHIR BOLO. ALLAH KAY HABIB KI SHAAN MAY AISI GUSTAKHI TUM KO BOHAT MAHENGI PAR SAKTI HAY QIYAMAT KAY DIN. JU JUMLA TUM NAY 6 YEAR OLD LARKI KAR KAY KAHA HAI WOH HUMARI PIYARI MAA AISHA (RADI ALLAH ANHA) HAIN. HUM MAY SAY KOI BHI HUZOOR KI PAOON KI DHOOL KAY BARABAR NAHIN HAI. PHIR TUMAHARAY APNAY MIRZA SAHAB NAY BHI AISI GUSTAKHI KARNAY KI JURAT NAHI KEY. KUCH HOOSH KAY NAKHUN LO IS SAY PAHLAY KE BOHAT DAIR HO JAI!**

dear extreme,

nice idea! from tommorow onwards, i will start a new series of threads, will news agency reports about deeds of the molvis! if thats what you want, you get it :)

dear xtreme,
here you want to proove that ahmadi members' presence in israel is a sign of their "islam dushmani". they are spies, they are money-snatchers, they are deceiving and blah blah blah. all your writings clearly portrays that you have some intrinsic bias against this community.
dear fellow, ahmadis claim that they will bring whole world towards their sect. and israel is a part world. their efforts to spread islam to all over the world are remarkable. you yourself proove my this point in your writing above.
as far as ' chanda-snatching ' is concerned, please note that no ahmadi ever been accused of pesonal discruptcy by any court in the world. even in pakistan, where
bias reigns supreme, nobody accused any ahmadi for money matters. all cases registered against them in the past 50 years of pakistan were of religious matters. so

here you fall once again!
enjoy!!

[This message has been edited by Roman (edited June 10, 1999).]

a very nice reply tempest!!

tempest101 or NYAhmadi