Yeah Basit, but they call themselves Ahmadi-Muslims (never disguise themselves as either Suni, Shia, or Wahabi, and two million other types of Islam). So where’s the problem?
I am a whirling dervish, I consider everyone to be muslims except those heathen whirling dervishes who whirl clockwise and not counter clockwise.
Fraudz, by your definition, I am the best Muslim I have ever known, in my whole entire life!
[quote]
I am a whirling dervish, I consider everyone to be muslims except those heathen whirling dervishes who whirl clockwise and not counter clockwise.
[/quote]
But what about those who chose to do both according to their mood! ;~)
[This message has been edited by ahmadjee (edited September 04, 2001).]
[quote]
Originally posted by NYAhmadi:
Yeah Basit, but they call themselves Ahmadi-Muslims (never disguise themselves as either Suni, Shia, or Wahabi, and two million other types of Islam). So where’s the problem?
[/quote]
Insaniyaat here, I have seen him acting(disquising) him/her self as shia here on this forum. Recently when this Qadiani talk errupted, we see him/her representing Qadianis. And many other stories in Pakistan where Qadianis have fooled others thinking that they are sunnis, but later you find out they were Qadianis.
There is ONE islam and one who follow that Islam is a Muslim. This Ahmadi-muslim, shia muslim is crap and not part of Islam. Allah says not to divide your self in sects.... when you put so and so-muslim, you are dividnig Islam and not uniting, you are disobeying orders of Allah, thus taking your self away from what Islam really is and what it means to be a MUSLIM.
"I am not playing with a full deck!"
That’s all well and good Basit, but why should you use Insaniyat’s words to exemplify your beliefs? Are you saying that Sunis/Shias/Wahabi, etc., are against the teaching of Islam? May I humbly ask you what sect of Islam you are associated with? You don’t have to reply if you are shy about that.
Basit,
My stance is that if someone is meant to find the true path, he/she will. No matter whether there are shias, wahabis, ahmadis, christians, jews or jesuits to mislead them. Any time we spend trying to prevent is time taken away from much more positive and progressive activities that we could be involved in.
I have not and never will be one to point a finger at the other person and say that they are not Muslim. Even though the Quran has specified certain qualities that make a man/woman Muslim, many that fit that criteria may not be Muslim. So I figure leaving it in His hands is the best thing to do lest I call one of his beloved kafir.
Whoa!!! Justify my belief in what??? You said, you Qadianis don’t hide your self as Sunnis or Shias, but I gave you INsaniyaat’s example as to nullify your standing that Qadianis don’t hide themselves when they are among Sunnis or Shias.
As I said, creating sects, associating with sects is NOT what Islam permits and is not something a Muslim should do and is something which disobeys Allah’s word in Koraan.
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Muzna, so do you think its better for Qadianis as Qadianis to represent themselves as Qadianis when they go around preaching or do you think they should just call and hide under Sunnis when they go around preaching to poor, majboor, and ignorant people that they are Muslims(followers of MOhammad(saw) and Laws of Koraan) or Qadianis-followers of Mirza Qadian of Qadian, India with their own ahaadeeth books and translation of Koraan-which was revealed on Mohammad(saw) and one has to follow that revelation inorder to be Muslim.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
“I am not playing with a full deck!”
[This message has been edited by Abdul Basit (edited September 04, 2001).]
Abdul Basit,
**
As you are on a rampage of giving Fatwas, I just thought to take the advantage of your God given authority and ask you for the ‘Fatwas’ on the following ‘sects of Muslims’ too!
- Jarudiah:
- Sulamania:
- Butriyah:
- Yaqubiyya:
- Hanafiyah:
- Karibiyah:
- Kamiliyah:
- Muhammadiyyah:
- Baqiriyah:
- Nadisiyah:
- Sha’iyah:
- Ammaliyah:
- Ismailiyah:
- Musawiyah:
- Mubarakiyah:
- Kathiyah:
- Hashamiya:
- Zarariyah:
- Younasiyah:
- Shaitaniyah/Shireekiyah:
- Azraqaih:
- Najadat:
- Sufriyah:
- Ajaridah:
- Khazimiyah:
- Shuaibiyah/Hujjatiyah:
- Khalafiyah:
- Ma’lumiyah/Majhuliah:
- Saltiyah:
- Hamziyah:
- Tha’libiyah:
- Ma’badiyah:
- Akhnasiyah:
- Shaibaniyah/Mashbiyah:
- Rashidiyah:
- Mukarramiyah/tehmiyah:
- Abadiyah/Afáliyah:
- Hafsiyah:
- Harithiya:
- Ashab Ta’áh:
- Shabibiyah/Salihiyah:
- Wasiliyah:
- Ámriyah:
- Hudhailiyah/Faniya:
- Nazzamiyah:
- Mu’ammariyah:
- Bashriyah:
- Hishamiyah:
- Murdariyah:
- Ja’friyah:
- Iskafiyah:
- Thamamiyah:
- Jahiziayh:
- Shahhamiyah/Sifatiyah:
- Khaiyatiyah/Makhluqiyah:
- Ka’biyah:
- Jubbaiyah:
- Bahshamiyah:
- Ibriyah:
- Zanadiqiyah:
- Qabariyya:
- Hujjatiya:
- Fikriyya:
- 'Aliviyah/Ajariyah:
- Tanasikhiya:
- Rajiýah:
- Ahadiyah:
- Radeediyah:
- Satbiriyah:
- Lafziyah:
- Ashariyah:
- Bada’iyah:
If you have trouble trying to figure out what these sects of Muslims believe, then please visit This Thread on Religion Forum
Ahmadjee, that is good, I still have never heard of most of those names. Qadiani movement sure did thier homeworks.
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
Please, read the following Koraanic verse:
Al-An’am (The Cattle)
6:159 As for those who divide their religion and break up into sects, thou(mohammad) hast no part in them in the least: their affair is with Allah. He will in the end tell them the truth of all that they did.
I choose to be with Mohammad(saw) rather than associate with sects and people who create crap to cause disunity among Muslims.
“I am not playing with a full deck!”
[This message has been edited by Abdul Basit (edited September 04, 2001).]
Ahmedies
The words of (Kalimah) are which one declares his/her intention to become a Muslim. A person, who understands and repeats this phrase in sincerity and devotion, lives and acts in accordance to its meaning and fulfills its requirement, belongs to the Muslim Ummah.
Indeed, we are required to accept anyone's claim to be a Muslim, unless his own actions and statements prove that he is not a Muslim.
Obviously, declaring someone or the followers of an entire doctrine Kafir should be taken very seriously. In fact, admonishing those who have astrayed far from the teachings of Islam is a serious task entrusted to our learned scholars.
The fact is that all Muslim denominations, organizations, scholars and nations have unanimously declared the Qadiani ( Ahmadi ) movement outside the fold of Islam. Obviously, all these learned Muslims have done an extensive research and would not have declared Qadianism ( Ahmadiyyat ) Kafir, if there was any doubt about its nature.
The Kalimah uttered by Qadianis ( Ahmadis ) is meant to have a different meaning than those recited by Muslims. In support of this claim, I present the following writings of Mirza Ghulam Qadiani and his associates:
"I am the Maseeh of the time and I am Moses on whom God conferred His speech. I am Muhammad and Ahmad, the selected one."
(Taryaq-ul-Qulub, P. 3/6; Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 15, P. 134)
"Muhammad has again come down among us. His position is an improvement on his earlier visitation. If any man wishes to see Muhammad, more competent, then he should see Ghulam Ahmad, in Qadian."
(Al-Badr, 25 Oct. 1906)
"Twenty Six years ago, God called me Muhammad and Ahmad, in Buraheen-i-Ahmadiah."
(Roohany Khazaen, Vol. 22, P. 502)
When a devote and knowledgeable Qadiani confirms "Muhammad is his Servant and Messenger", he is referring to his so-called "improved Muhammad" (God forbid), Mirza Ghulam Qadiani, and not to the beloved Prophet(SAW) of Islam.
The utterance of Kalimah by Qadianis is only an attempt to mislead and entrap uninformed Muslims and convince the naive among their membership that they belong to a Muslim denomination.
The Qur'aan has already passed a verdict on those who reject the Truth and utter Kalimah for their personal pleasure and to attain worldly gains:
When the Hypocrites come to thee, they say, "We bear witness that thou art indeed the Messenger of Allah." Yea, Allah knows that thou art indeed His Messenger, and Allah bears witness that the Hypocrites are indeed liars.
(The Holy Quran, Al-Munafiqoon, 63:1)
If Qadianis ( Ahmedies ) believe they have a new religion and call the Muslims Kafir, should we call them Muslim?
"All those Muslims who do not enter the fold of the Promised Messiah, whether or not they have heard of Messiah (Mirza Ghulam Qadiani) are considered Kafirs and are beyond the pale of Islam."
(Aeena-e-Sadaqat, P. 9/35)
"God has revealed it to me that the person who did not believe in me after having heard about me is not a Muslim."
(Al-Fazl, Qadian, Al-Hukum, 4:24, Mirza Ghulam Qadiani)
"It is incumbent upon us that we should not regard non-Ahmadis as Muslims, nor should we offer prayers behind them, because according to our belief they deny one of the messengers of Allah. This is a matter of faith. None has any discretion in this."
(Anwar-e-Khilafat, P. 90)
On hand the Ahmedies are calling Muslims Kafirs and then on the other hand, they are calling themselves Kafirs by calling themselves Muslims!!!!!
The bottom line is that Ahmedies ARE KAFIRS as agreed by all Muslims of the World. Whether a Guppie tries to argue otherwise, will have no effect on the FATWA already issued!!
What a HOAX of a Cult!!!
This is why I originated a thread “tell what you beleive in” and you got mad, you accused this act as “inferiority”, probably now you would realize how beneficial it could have been, but you chose to ignore it
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/frown.gif
We oughta be Changez like, don’t we?
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif
it really made me laugh. someone really tried to make a sect almost out of ANY ‘difference of opinion’, perhaps this ‘author’ should know the definition of sect… or may be I don’t know
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/hehe.gif
what is a sect anyway? should we start a separate thread for this topic?
We oughta be Changez like, don’t we?
Ahmadi Saab, the enthusiaism with which you fight for ahmadiyut is amazing since we know you are not a very religious person. Anyways this story is very beautiful and ur parents are as amazing as urself....if they ever come to NY, i would love to meet em....i hope u'll introduce us:--)
Ciao
Naik
ps> and your kids have the best dad one could ever have....
Okay
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/smile.gif
“kaisay na karta usko main pyar, uski haseen main sukh thay hazaar, bichar gayay hum dukh ki hay baat”
[quote]
Originally posted by sholay:
*The fact is that all Muslim denominations, organizations, scholars and nations have unanimously declared the Qadiani ( Ahmadi ) movement outside the fold of Islam. Obviously, all these learned Muslims have done an extensive research and would not have declared Qadianism ( Ahmadiyyat ) Kafir, if there was any doubt about its nature.
*
[/quote]
I find myself out of place in such a thread to begin with. However, just a question.
It is a well known and widely accepted hadees that speaks of there being a total of 72 sects emanating out of Islam. And according to Prophet SAW, only ONE of those 72 sects will go to jannat. Meaning, the remaining 71 will be on the wrong path. According to ur statement above, all Muslim denominations, organizations, scholars and nations have unanimously declared the Qadiani ( Ahmadi ) movement outside the fold of Islam....so thats one out of 72. How come none of the 'muslim denominations, organizations, scholars and nations' have taken this exercise of theirs a step further? Why are they stuck at 72-1=71? Obviously 70 out of the remaining 71 are kuffaar as well. Why are they stuck in first gear? just wondering
NYAhmadi, what you claim to be and what you show is were disturbing. You claim that you respect everyone beliefs but at the same time you are very enthusiastic in name calling and generalizing. Oh before I forget, I see a lot self-phrasing :)
But to the point, as far as I know, no one here (or there, where that be) have the right label anyone as a kaffar, because not everyone is a scholar or an alim.
We are the Taleban-Resistance is Futile
Sin: Osama Bin Junior
[quote]
Originally posted by Akif:
** I find myself out of place in such a thread to begin with. However, just a question.
It is a well known and widely accepted hadees that speaks of there being a total of 72 sects emanating out of Islam. And according to Prophet SAW, only ONE of those 72 sects will go to jannat. Meaning, the remaining 71 will be on the wrong path. According to ur statement above, all Muslim denominations, organizations, scholars and nations have unanimously declared the Qadiani ( Ahmadi ) movement outside the fold of Islam....so thats one out of 72. How come none of the 'muslim denominations, organizations, scholars and nations' have taken this exercise of theirs a step further? Why are they stuck at 72-1=71? Obviously 70 out of the remaining 71 are kuffaar as well. Why are they stuck in first gear? just wondering**
[/quote]
Maybe they haven't created their own prophets yet? Or maybe, its in this extreme circumstances where one gathers all 'known' muslims to declare a fatwa on something which is contradictory to Koraan and Tradition of Muhammad as non-Muslim?
"I am not playing with a full deck!"
[quote]
Originally posted by Abdul Basit:
** Maybe they haven't created their own prophets yet? Or maybe, its in this extreme circumstances where one gathers all 'known' muslims to declare a fatwa on something which is contradictory to Koraan and Tradition of Muhammad as non-Muslim?
**
[/quote]
Or maybe its a sign of Allah to point out that 'one'(1) sect which was foretold by Hazrat Muhammad (saw) to be on the right path!
:)
Abdul Basit,
Your reply(ies) are arguing about who is a Muslim and who is not. But the question or the intent of the post was to point out or justify on what grounds will you not respect one's religion.
Just because you do not agree to the Ahmadiyya Muslim belief, you consider it a license to use foul language and disrespect anyone or anything associated?