Ahmadies Killed (Shaheed)

Society Religion & Philosophy
1

Assalam-o-Alaikum,

As we were discussing here that whether or not Ahmadies are muslims. The muslims of pakistan have agian shown there Islam in a very nice manner.

Mirza Qadir Ahmad who was a very prominent person of our Jammat was first kidnapped and then shot dead by Lashkar-i-Jhangwi, Sipah Sahaba. He was son-in-law of our current Khalifa’s sister and he was also son of our respected people from the family of Mirza Ghulam Ahmad.

Because of Muharam, the plan was to put ammunation like hand-granades, rifels, bombs etc. in his car and burn his car so that they can blame Ahmadies for all the terorism (Police has caught the car with all amunation). And an endless killing would have started against Ahmadies. But their plan was failed because near chaniot, he tried to run from the car because of some blocked traffic and those brutal people shot him.

Now my question is that IS this what islam has taught us? Those who say that they are Sipah-i-Sahaba, should think that will they protect sahaba in this way?

I don’t want to write any more but I will just leave this decision on the readers to judge what is the character of these Mullahs. I would conclude my post by few couplets by Mirza Tahir Ahmad Sahib.

Khoon Shaheedan-i-ummat ka ay Kam nazar, raigaN kab gaya tha jo ab jaiy ga
Har ik shahadat, teray dekhtay hi dekhtay, phool phal laiy gee, phool phal jaiy gee.

MIRZA YASIR

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2

Sunni Fanatisicm has gone out of hand. This was propelled by the inflow of arms from Afghanistan.

Pakistan has miserably failed as a nation and a people to protect the life and honor of the Ahmedi People.

Our failiure is the victory of evil over innocence.

Our inability to react has been the triumph of brutality over tolerance.

We are indeed a hypocritical shameless nation with no traditions of honor and decency.

One can only pray and condemn these animal acts by robotic dimwits who have no moral direction.

Stud

3

Shame on you stud for branding a nation of more than 140 million just because a group which has absolutely no support from the people is doing something wrong.

How dare you say that our nation has failed: well if you think so then get out of Pakistan and get yourself a new nation, LET ME SEE HOW MANY PEOPLE IN THE WORLD ARE WILLING to take you in... let me see how many people are willing to accept you as a part of their nationhood. Just get out, if you are NOT a Pakistani then stop saying that Pakistan has failed, YOU ARE WRONG, we have achieved more than many many others can even think of.

I am proud to be a Pakistani, I am proud of my country, my people (including Ahmedis and other minorities) and my land.

Long Live Pakistan.

4

Well, as far as the killer is concerned i don't know about him, but if a person dies or is killed and his believes were that of Qadianese, he is a jahannami as per Quran.

Wallah o Alam wassalatu wassalamu ala nabiyyana Mohammed.

5

Re: Abdulla

Brother-you will have to subtantiate your quote above "if a person dies or is killed and his believes were that of Qadianese, he is a jahannami as per Quran".
Could you pls provide references to Quran with ample intrepretations to back your statement.

Wa-Salam

6

Albullah, please dont play GOD..
you are not the one who decide, who is Jahanummi and who is Jannati..

I mean change your attitude, this is an absolute SHIRK..

dero us din say jub aap say sirf aap kay aamaal ka hisaab leya ja'ay ga, you dont have to answer for others acts..

Allah tala aap sab ko naik hadayat day.. aameen

7

Hamid,

All of us are proud of Pakistan but if you are proud of killing people of pakistan then your pride is useless.

MIRZA YASIR

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8

Abdulla,

aap ki akal ki tareef karni parti hai. You said that i don’t know about killer but ahmadies are jahanumi. Wah wah… Kitni safai say katil ko bacha liya aap nay.

MIRZA YASIR

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9

As a human being a muslim and a Pakistani it is my honor to speak in defence of the Peaceful Ahmedi Community of Pakistan.

As a Pakistani it is my misfortune to be represented by a Goverment that allows legislation on Spiritual Status of my fellow citizens.

As a muslim it is unbearable to ignore the atrocities commited against an innocent people.

The failiure of Pakistan is evident from the attitude visible on this forum.
The inability to rise above personal prejudice and the animal instinct to kill has overtaken compassion.

That is our failiure and that is our Shame.

Stud

10

Islam does not permit killing of a person based upon his or her beleifs. This is a barbaric custom that is foriegn to Islamic character. If such were the case, we would have found atrocities committed by the righteous Caliphs against the minorites living under their rule. Contrary to this, Islam is very generous in allowing people to exercise their right in following their beliefs. Unfortunately, we do not have any true form of Islamic government in existence today. What we have in Saudi Arabia is a hereditary Kingship which is an unIslamic phenomenon. Any one who voices any opposition against it meets a dreadful doom. We must be unrelenting in our opposition to such random acts of violence and promote a positive image of Islam every where.

11

Here are some ayats from only one surah which says something about disbelievers:

Surah Al Imran - 4
Aforetime, as a guidance to mankind, And He sent down the criterion [of judgement between right and wrong (this Qur'ân)]. Truly, those who disbelieve in the Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.) of Allâh, for them there is a severe torment; and Allâh is All-Mighty, All-Able of Retribution.

Surah Al Imran - 10
Verily, those who disbelieve, neither their properties nor their offspring will avail them whatsoever against Allâh; and it is they who will be fuel of the Fire.

Like the behaviour of the people of Fir'aun (Pharaoh) and those before them; they belied Our Ayât (proofs, evidences, verses, lessons, signs, revelations, etc.), so Allâh seized (destroyed) them for their sins. And Allâh is Severe in punishment. 12. Say (O Muhammad SAW) to those who disbelieve: "You will be defeated and gathered together to Hell, and worst indeed is that place to rest."

Say (O Muhammad SAW) to those who disbelieve: "You will be defeated and gathered together to Hell, and worst indeed is that place to rest."

"As to those who disbelieve, I will punish them with a severe torment in this world and in the Hereafter, and they will have no helpers."

Surah Al Imran - 59
Verily, the likeness of 'Iesa (Jesus) before Allâh is the likeness of Adam. He created him from dust, then (He) said to him: "Be!" - and he was.

Surah Al Imran - 90
Verily, those who disbelieved after their Belief and then went on increasing in their disbelief (i.e. disbelief in the Qur'ân and in Prophet Muhammad SAW) - never will their repentance be accepted [because they repent only by their tongues and not from their hearts]. And they are those who are astray.91. Verily, those who disbelieved, and died while they were disbelievers, the (whole) earth full of gold will not be accepted from anyone of them even if they offered it as a ransom.] For them is a painful torment and they will have no helpers.

Surah Al Imran - 91
Verily, those who disbelieved, and died while they were disbelievers, the (whole) earth full of gold will not be accepted from anyone of them even if they offered it as a ransom.] For them is a painful torment and they will have no helpers.

Surah Al Imran - 106
On the Day (i.e. the Day of Resurrection) when some faces will become white and some faces will become black; as for those whose faces will become black (to them will be said): "Did you reject Faith after accepting it? Then taste the torment (in Hell) for rejecting Faith."

Surah Al Imran - 116
Surely, those who reject Faith (disbelieve in Muhammad SAW as being Allâh's Prophet and in all that which he has brought from Allâh), neither their properties, nor their offspring will avail them aught against Allâh. They are the dwellers of the Fire, therein they will abide]. (Tafsir At­Tabarî, Vol. 4, Page 58).

A disbeliever / kafir is one who rejects Quran, either entirely or a part of it. Qadianese / ahmedis are disbelievers because they reject a part of Quran. They reject Prophet SAW as last prophet and Hazrat Eisa Alaihissalam being alive and the return of Hazrat Eisa alaihissalam. No one knows what is in the heart except Allah SWT but Qadianese do accept their believes. Every Qadiani here will say Hazrat Eisa alaihissalam is dead and Prophet SAW was not the last prophet and hence making themseleves disbelievers as per Quran.

I am not trying to play God, I am just a very normal servant of Allah SWT and solely dependent on Him for all my needs like the whole universe. One thing which you must have forget is Quran. Quran tells us about everything, who is a jannati and who will go to hell. So if i say Mushrik will go to Hell, am i playing God, no, i am just telling you the verdict of Allah SWT as per Quran.

So again repeating, if a qadiani dies or is killed he will surely go to Hell and will always remain there as per Quran.

12

ok Abdullah, my humble brother,
got your point, thankx !

I am very impressed that you have broad knowledge of Quran.. hopefully we will have good discussion later..

now listen this for the last time, I wont repeat it again and think about it....

Tell me, when Jesus(as) claimed that he is appointed by God to revive the teaching of Moses(as). What did the people of Bani Israel say?? simple they were waiting for Elidja(sa) [and are still waiting] so they rejected him as a liar and persecuted him in their very best way. Their objection was exactly the one as yours.

Another Question. When Holy Prophet(sa) claimed that he is appointed from Allah as Prophet.. what was the reaction of opponents? They said how can we leave the beliefs of our forefathers.. and persecuted Him and his Sahaba (ra) through out his life... Its exactly the same theme as yours.

It has been proved by the HISTORY and the QURAN that such people exists through out the history of mankind.

Allah Tala says;

[quote]

53. Even so there came no Messenger to those before them, but they said, ‘A sorcerer, or a madman!’ [Al-Dhariyat]

54. Have they made it a legacy to one another? Nay, they are all a rebellious people. [Al-Dhariyat]

[/quote]

[quote]

44. Then we sent Our Messengers one after another. Every time there come to a people a Messenger, they treated him as a liar. So We made them follow one another to destruction and We made them mere tales. Cursed, then, be the people who believe not. [Al-Mu’minun]

[/quote]

ONLY THE TIME CAN SHOW THE TRUE PICTURE...

So my dear brother, just break your shell of your hatred and try to understand what Quran says..

Hazrat Muhammad (sa), is indeed the last of prophets, but in what sense? We Ahmadis are not degrading Rasool Allah(sa) instead we have raised his rank what he deserve by considering him the Highest of all Prophets/ the Seal of the Prophets .. *there is absolutely no greatness for being last in respect to time but there is much elegance in what I just said. *

Rasool Allah (sa) has used this word in so many places.. ,

[quote]

"I AM THE LAST OF THE PROPHETS AND YOU ARE THE LAST OF THE PEOPLES"(Sahih Muslim)

I AM THE LAST OF THE PROPHETS AND MY MOSQUE IS THE LAST MOSQUE.* (Sahih Muslim, Kitabul Haj Fazlis Salaat, p. 531) *

[/quote]

Here I am giving you some more examples with references. Please Justify your statrement??

[quote]

*1.KHATAM-USH-SHU'ARAA (seal of poets) *
was used for the poet Abu Tamam. (Wafiyatul A'yan, vol. 1, p. 123, Cairo)

*2.KHATAM-USH-SHU'ARAA *
again, used for Abul Tayyeb. (Muqaddama Deewanul Mutanabbi, Egyptian p. 4)

3.KHATAM-USH-SHU'ARAA
again, used for Abul 'Ala Alme'ry. (ibid, p.4, footnote)

*4.KHATAM-USH-SHU'ARAA *
used for Shaikh Ali Huzain in India. (Hayati Sa'di, p. 117)

5.KHATAM-USH-SHU'ARAA
used for Habeeb Shairaazi in Iran. (Hayati Sa'di, p. 87)

Note here that all five people have been given the above title. How could it be interpreted as "last". They did not come and go at the exact same time.

*6.KHATAM-AL-AULIYAA (seal of saints) *
for Hazrat Ali (May God be pleased with him). (Tafsir Safi, Chapter AlAhzab)
Can no other person now attain wilaayat, if "seal" meant last?

7.KHATAM-AL-AULIYAA
used for Imam Shaf'ee. (Al Tuhfatus Sunniyya, p. 45)

8.KHATAM-AL-AULIYAA
used for Shaikh Ibnul 'Arabee. (Fatoohati Makkiyyah, on title page)

*9.KHATAM-AL-KARAAM (seal of remedies) *
used for camphor. (Sharah Deewanul Mutanabbee, p. 304)
Has no medicine been found or used after camphor, if "seal" means "last"?

*10.KHATAM-AL-A'IMMAH (seal of religious leaders) *
used for Imam Muhammad 'Abdah of Egypt. (Tafseer Alfatehah, p. 148)
Don't we have leaders today?

*11.KHATAM-ATUL-MUJAHIDEEN (seal of crusaders) *
for AlSayyad Ahmad Sanosi. (Akhbar AlJami'atul Islamiyyah, Palestine, 27 Muharram, 1352 A.H.)

*12.KHATAM-ATUL-ULAMAA-ALMUHAQQIQEEN (seal of research scholars) *
used for Ahmad Bin Idrees. (Al'Aqadun Nafees)

**13.KHATAM-ATUL-MUHAQQIQEEN (seal of researchers) **for Abul Fazl Aloosi. (on the title page of the Commentary Roohul Ma'aanee)

14.KHATAM-AL-MUHAQQIQEEN used for Shaikh AlAzhar Saleem Al Bashree. (Al Haraab, p. 372)

15.KHATAM-ATUL-MUHAQQIQEEN used for Imam Siyotee. (Title page of Tafseerul Taqaan)

*16.KHATAM-AL-MUHADDITHEEN (seal of narrators) *
for Hazrat Shah Waliyyullah of Delhi. ('Ijaalah Naafi'ah, vol. 1)

*17.KHATAMAT-AL-HUFFAAZ (seal of custodians) * for AlShaikh Shamsuddin. (AlTajreedul Sareeh Muqaddimah, p. 4)
A "hafiz" is one who has memorised the full arabic text of the Holy Quran. Two of my cousins happen to belong to this category and more people will memorize it.

*18.KHATAM-AL-AULIA (seal of saints) *
used for the greatest saint. (Tazkiratul Auliyaa', p. 422)

**19.KHATAM-AL-AULIA used for a saint who completes stages of progress. (Fatoohul Ghaib, p. 43)

*20.KHATAM-ATUL-FUQAHAA (seal of jurists) * used for Al Shaikh Najeet. (Akhbaar Siraatal Mustaqeem Yaafaa, 27 Rajab, 1354 A.H.)

*21.KHATAM-AL-MUFASSIREEN (seal of commentators or exegetes) * for Shaikh Rasheed Raza. (Al Jaami'atul Islamia, 9 Jamadiy thaani, 1354 A.H.)

22.KHATAM-ATUL-FUQAHAA used for Shaikh Abdul Haque. (Tafseerul Akleel, title page)

*23.KHATAM-ATUL-MUHAQQIQEEN (seal of researchers) * for Al Shaikh Muhammad Najeet. (Al Islam Asr Shi'baan, 1354 A.H.)

24.KHATAM-AL-WALAAYAT (seal of sainthood) for best saint. (Muqaddimah Ibne Khuldoon, p. 271)

*25.KHATAM-AL-MUHADDITHEEN WAL MUFASSIREEN (seal of narrators and commentators) *
used for Shah 'Abdul 'Azeez. (Hadiyyatul Shi'ah, p. 4)

*26.KHATAM-AL-MAKHLOOQAAT AL-JISMAANIYYAH (seal of bodily creatures) *
used for the human being. (Tafseer Kabeer, vol. 2, p. 22, published in Egypt)

27.KHATAM-ATUL-HUFFAAZ used for Shaikh Muhammad Abdullah. (Al Rasaail Naadirah, p. 30)

28.KHATAM-ATUL-MUHAQQIQEEN used for Allaama Sa'duddeen Taftaazaani. (Shara' Hadeethul Arba'een, p. 1)

**29.KHATAM-ATUL-HUFFAAZ **used for Ibn Hajrul 'Asqalaani. (Tabqaatul Madlaseen, title page)

**30.KHATAM-AL-MUFASSIREEN (seal of commentators) **used for Maulvi Muhammad Qaasim. (Israare Quraani, title page)

**31.KHATAM-AL-MUHADDITHEEN (seal of narrators) **used for Imam Siyotee. (Hadiyyatul Shee'ah, p. 210)

*32.KHATAM-AL-HUKKAAM (seal of rulers) *
used for kings. (Hujjatul Islam, p. 35)

*33.KHATAM-AL-KAAMILEEN (seal of the perfect) * used for the Holy Prophet (pbuh). (Hujjatul Islam, p. 35)

**34.KHATAM-AL-MARAATAB (seal of statuses) **for status of humanity. ('Ilmul Kitaab, p. 140)
We have the "highest, not "last" status.

*35.KHATAM-AL-KAMAALAAT (seal of miracles) * for the Holy Prophet (pbuh). (ibid, p. 140)

*36.KHATAM-AL-ASFIYAA AL A'IMMAH (seal of mystics of the nation) * for Jesus (peace be on him). (Baqiyyatul Mutaqaddimeen, p. 184)

**37.KHATAM-AL-AUSIYAA (seal of advisers) **for Hazrat Ali (R.A.A.). (Minar Al Hudaa, p. 106)

**38.KHATAM-AL-MU'ALLIMEEN (seal of teachers/scholars) **used for the Holy Prophet(pbuh). (Alsiraatul Sawee by Allama Muhammad Sabtain

*39.KHATAM-AL-MUHADDITHEEN (seal of narrators) * for Al Shaikhul Sadooq. (Kitaab Man Laa Yahdarahul Faqeeh)

40.KHATAM-AL-MUHADDITHEEN used for Maulvi Anwar Shah of Kashmir. (Kitaab Raeesul Ahrar, p. 99)

[/quote]

Please note that none of these books were written by Ahmadis. This list is by no means exhaustive, since I know there are many more instances where the arabic word "Khatam" has been used to commonly refer to the highest status in a quality. I have more references but forty is a decent round figure. The word has also been mentioned in books of Hadeeth (sayings of the Prophet, pbuh), but I may get into that at some other time.

There is whole list of such ranks.. but this doesn’t means that that office is closed for good.

Just a humble suggestion in the original words of Quran for you and people who thinks like you..

[quote]

113. And in like manner have We made for every Prophet an enemy, evil ones from among men and Jinn. They suggest one to another gilded speech in order to deceive – and if thy Lord had enforced His will, they would not done it; so leave them alone with that which they fabricate– Al-An’am]

[/quote]

One with a pure heart needs not abundance of miracles One sign is enough if there is in the heart, a fear of God.

[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited April 18, 1999).]

13

Zalim and Abdulla, you can start another thread for this discussion

MIRZA YASIR

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14

Abdulla- You have amply substantiated from the Quran the position of the non-believers, i.e.
"if a person dies or is killed and his believes were that of Qadianese, he is a jahannami as per Quran".

Granted - you have used the word Qadianese as a euphemism or substitute for Shias, Ahmedias, Hindus, Christians, etc. So, as per your Sunni intrepretation of Islam - everybody who is a non-Sunni is Jahannami or non-believer; Similarly, the Shias counter that Sunnis are kafirs! So, who is right and who is wrong! It's all a matter of intrepretation, IS IT NOT?

However, does differing intrepretation justify a Sunni or Shia leadership in ordering the taking of one's life? This is what's going on in today's Pakistan, Afghanistan, Algeria, Sudan, Indonesia -- IS IT NOT? Blood is being shed - in the name of Islam, because Abdulla's Quran condones it.

15

I am surprized when i started the thread "Finality of Prophethood" mr. zalim did not responded to that, but now when the discussing is different you just want to divert the subject. But anyways, lets take the case for Prophet Mohammed ibn Abdulla SAW, long before he was born, bible did confirmed that a prophet will come, but did Quran say that a prophet will come after Mohammed SAW, no, but we do have sahih ahadith from Prophet SAW which do confirm that some liars will claim prophethood.

About Khatim unnabiyyin see the below:

The Dictionary Meaning of the Word 'Khatam-al-Nabiyyin'

It is evident that the text can bear one meaning and it is that Khatam-al-Nabiyyin stands for the Finality of Prophethood with a clear implication that the prophethood has been culminated and finalized in Muhammad (PBUH). It is not only the context that supports this interpretation but also the lexicography.

According to Arabic lexicon and the linguistic usage Khatam means to affix seal; to close, to come to an end; and to carry something to its ultimate end.

Khatama al-'Amala is equivalent to 'Faragha min al-'Almali' which means 'to get over with the task.' 'Khatama al-Ina' bears the meaning 'The vessel has been closed and sealed so that nothing can go into it, nor can its contents spill out.'

'Khatam-al-kitab' conveys the meaning 'The letter has been enclosed and sealed so that it is finally secured.'

'Khatama-'Ala-al-Qalb' means 'The heart has been sealed so that it cannot perceive anything new nor can it forswear what it has already imbibed.'

'Khitamu-Kulli-Mashrubin' implies 'the final taste that is left in the mouth when the drink is over.'

Katimatu Kulli Shaiinn 'Aqibatuhu wa Akhiratuhu means "The end in the case of everything denotes its doom and ultimate finish." Khatm-ul-Shaii Balagha Akhirahu conveys the sense, "To end a thing means to carry it to its ultimate limit."

The term Khatam-i-Qur'an is used in the similar sense and the closing verses of Qur'anic Surahs are referred to as Khawatim. Khatim-ul-Qaum Akhirhuum means "The last man in the tribe." (Refer to Lisan-ul-'Arab; Qamus and Aqrab-ul- Muwarid). (see footnote 2, below.)

For this reason all linguists and commentators agree that Khatam-ul-Nabiyyin means 'The Last in the line of Prophets.' The word Khatam in its dictionary meaning and linguistic usage does not refer to the post office stamp which is affixed on the outgoing mail. Its literal meaning is the 'seal' which is but on the envelope to secure its contents.

footnote 2.

We have referred to three lexicons here, yet the elucidation of this point is not confined to these works alone. All authoritative dictionaries of the Arabic language interpret the word Khatam in the sense that we have given to it. But the deniers of the Finality of Prophethood in their endeavor to make a sneaky assault on the religion of God argue that if we refer to someone as 'Last of the Poets' or 'Last of the Legists' or 'Last of the Commentators', we do not necessarily mean that no poet, legist or commentator will come after them; rather we only mean to say that all excellence of their act has been concentrated in such men. The actual position, however, is that when we do use these exaggerated epithets for someone we do not thereby replace or remove the original meaning of the word 'Last'. It is preposterous to assume that by its metaphorical use to refer to the excellence or perfection of a man, the word 'Last' loses its original or real significance which is 'Final'. Such an assumption can only be accepted by a person who lacks elementary knowledge of the rules of grammar. There is no grammatical principle in any language by which the metaphorical meaning of a word may be taken as its real or original meaning. Besides, the metaphorical meaning in no case replaces or obliterates the real and basic meaning of the word.

When you tell an Arab 'Ja Khatam ul-Qaum', he will certainly not take it to mean that 'the perfect or the most excellent man of the tribe has come.' He will, on the other hand, take it to mean that 'the whole tribe, even to the last man, has come.'

There is another point to be considered. Such terms as the 'Last Poet', the Last Legist' or the 'Last Narrator of hadith' are eulogies used by men for other human beings whom they deem to be perfect and excellent. Those who use these hyperboles for other men certainly can not say, nor do they know, that people of such excellence will come in later times or not. So in human language these appellations are hyperboles, but when God uses for a person that such and such quality has been culminated in him, there is no reason to take it in the metaphorical sense in the strain of human expression. If Allah had pronounced someone as 'Last Poet', he would have been last poet in the literal sense of the word. If Allah appoints someone as His 'Last Prophet', there is absolutely no possibility of any other person attaining to that dignity after that.

God is Omniscient. Man has but limited knowledge. This being so, how can one construe the human praise of a person as 'Last Poet' or the last of the jurists in the same sense as God's pronouncement of a person as the 'Last Prophet'?

The Observations of the Holy Prophet(PBUH) About the Finality of Prophethood

The meaning of the word Khatam that emerges out of the context of the Holy Qur'an and which is the same as given in all lexicons of the Arabic language is also affirmed by the observations of the Holy Prophet(peace and blessings be upon him). We quote some authentic traditions to illustrate the case in point:

oThe Holy Prophet (PBUH) observed: "The tribe of Israel was guided by prophets. When a prophet passed away, another prophet succeeded him. But no prophet will come after me; only caliphs will succeed me." (Bukhari, Kitab-ul-Manaqib).

oThe Prophet of God (PBUH) affirmed: "My position in relation to the prophets who came before me can be explained by the following example:

A man erected a building and adorned this edifice with great beauty, but he left an empty niche, in the corner where just one brick was missing. People looked around the building and marvelled at its beauty, but wondered why a brick was missing from that niche? I am like unto that one missing brick and I am the last in the line of the Prophets." (Bukhari, Kitab-ul-Manaqib).

(In other words, with the advent of the Prophet Muhammad (PBUH) the edifice of Prophethood has been completed and there is no empty niche in this edifice to provide room for another prophet.)

Four traditions relating to this subject are recorded, in Muslim, Kitab-ul-Fada'il, Babu Khatimin-Nabiyyin. The latter tradition contains the following additional sentence. "So I came and in me the line of Prophets has ended."

The very same tradition in similar words has been reported in Tirmidhi, Kitab-ul-Manaqib, Bab-Fadlin Nabi and Kitab-Adab, Bab-ul-Amthal. In Musnad Abu Dawud Tayalisi this tradition has been incorporated among other traditions reported by Jabir bin Abdullah; and its last sentence reads, "It is in me that line of Prophets came to its final end."

Musnad Ahmad contains traditions reported by Hadrat Ubayyi bin Ka'b, Hadrat Abu Sa'id Khudri and Hadrat Abu Huraira(may Allah be pleased with them) on the same subject with a slight variation of words here and there.

For one thing you are right "One with a pure heart needs not abundance of miracles One sign is enough if there is in the heart, a fear of God"

i do agree to that.

16

*O Abdullah! The modest one.. *

Your long and exhausting debate “with out references” is just AMBIGOUS.. next time please quote all those “Arabic lexicons and the linguistics” and justify my references, I will appreciate that.

You have used the word "last in the line" as you have interpreted and that’s not the actual word used over there.. can you please check it again??

Your ideology is different from the rest of the Muslim world who believes in the second advent of a Jesus (and Imam Mehdi). You don’t believe in that, am I right ??

So I have to answer you likewise.. Presently I am busy with my exams, we will inshallah, have an open discussion on this issue later. I hope you don’t mind.. In the mean time please gather all the stuff with REFERENCES on all those issues on which you nullify Ahmadis..

PLUS please get me just one more VERSE from the Holy Quran which supports the “Khatum-un-Nabeyeen” as Finality of the Prophethood (pertaining to TIME and SUCCESSION). On this only reference I will certainly take “bait” on your hands. What more can I say..

May Allah forgive us all and grant us enough wisdom to see the true colors. Aameen

Hopefully yours,

Zalim,

[email protected]

[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited April 19, 1999).]

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My all feelings, sympathies and prayers with the family, friends and those who are related to him in any means. I pray to Allah that May Allah forgive his all mistakes and give him a high place in the Heaven.

I would strongly condemn the killing of any one other than in the war, Zanee, munharaf, and Killer. But this is the Government's duty to kill the Zanees, munharafeens and Killers. Any one in Islam is not allowed to kill any one unless he/she is in the war with non-Muslims. In one Hadith, Prophet Muhammad (SAW) said that the killer and the killed, both will go to Jahanum. This Hadith mubaraka is for those people who are enemies of each other and both of them were to kill each other. If this is the case then both would go to Jahanum otherwise killer would have to face the questions on the day of Judgment.

Mirzayasir

[quote]
Because of Muharam, the plan was to put ammunition like hand-grenades, rifles, bombs etc. in his car and burn his car so that they can blame Ahmadies for all the terrorism (Police has caught the car with all ammunition). And an endless killing would have started against Ahmadies. But their plan was failed because near chaniot, he tried to run from the car because of some blocked traffic and those brutal people shot him.
[/quote]

First of all I think during the muharam there is conflict between sunnies and shias not with marzayees.
Second. Can you please tell me why a person would be driving a car full of ammunition as you said that his car was taken into the police custody which was full of hand-grenades, rifles, bombs etc?
This is an interesting point in your story that a person was driving a car which was full of deadly weapons and he was not aware of it?
Or was he going on a UNO peace mission?

I still don't get it that a person was driving a car with full of ammunition and he was being chased by some terrorists (what a scene). So the person who was driving the car full of grenades, rifles, bombs is innocent and the chasers were terrorists? And when he got stuck in the traffic, he got out of the car, tried to run away from his car full of ammunition but the terrorists shot him dead.

After reading this story so many times, I would say that there is some thing else which have not been mentioned truly in this story.

My friend, I would condemn the killing of any human being does not matter who he/she belongs to but I would condemn it with more intensity if some one tries to play politics politics on dead bodies.

Blaming the whole sunnies or shias for the killing is only a sickness of minds.
I would condemn all the killing done by any sections and I would condemn all those people also who try to twist the stories and play the politics politics on dead bodies.

[This message has been edited by msaqibj (edited April 19, 1999).]

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Why any other ayat, is this not enough?, you don't believe in this ayat or what. And what reference you are talking about, i have provided lots of reference in my reply, if more required please read Finality of Prophethood.

For your kind information, my believes are as per Quran and sunnah and the rest of the muslims also have the same believes, there is no prophet after Mohammed Ibn Abdulla SAW and Imam Mehdi will not be a prophet, as far as Hazrat Eisa alaihissalam is concerned, he was sent to this world before Prophet Mohammed SAW. And when he will return he will return as a ummati of Prophet Mohammed SAW and not as a Prophet. Does this answer you query?

I do agree to brother msaqibj, government is responsible for the punishments. Anyone just cannot give punishments or take revenge himself.

Wallah O Alam.

[This message has been edited by Abdulla (edited April 19, 1999).]

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Mr. msaqib,

Thanks for making fun of my post.

You haven’t understand what I have said. Mr. Ghulam Qadir was not driving the car.

Here is the complete story (taken from www.ahmadiyya.com)

He was on his agricultural lands when the murderers approached him, they talked to
him as if they were interested in having some of his lands on contract basis. His
workers thought that he was going to show them an orchard, when they saw him
going with the Murderers. (Two days ago the same people came to the lands and
were asking the workers about Mian Sahib)

There is no confirmed evidence or witness on what happened on the way but some
people told that they saw Mian Sahib’s car which he was not driving himself, instead
mian sahib was on back seat and was scuffling with the men. There were many
wounds on his body which assure some very serious scuffling.

When the two cars, two more murderer’s partners in another car following mian
sahib’s car, reached Chenab River Bridge. Traffic was blocked on the bridge. (It
was not an unusual traffic block as it happens many times a day on this busy
bridge.) In the traffic jam, Mian sahib managed to get out of the car and tried to run
away, one of the kidnappers came out from the other car and opened up the fire on
him. Bullets hit on mian sahib’s stomach and went through his body, injuring his
Liver.

Some local men immediately took Mian sahib to the nearest hospital in Chinniot
city. Mian sahib was in his senses when reached hospital and told his name and
address. Shortly after that mian sahib died in the hospital.

The murderers, after shooting mian sahib, fired bullets on a bus nearby too, as the
driver of bus got out as he heard the shots. Driver and a lady teacher in the bus got
injured while a man in the bus died on the spot. Then the murderers fled in their car
towards chinniot where they turned to Jhang (another district ). In the mean time, all
the district’s police force was alerted. The murderers, not very far on their way to
Jhang, found the police cars coming from the opposite direction while some police
vans were already chasing them. The murderers turned towards a girls school, and
went to a class room and warned police that if police will make any attempt to get
into the school, they will kill all the female student hostages. In the mean while
police’s Elite Forces got there. Elite Force used tear gas and the murderers moved to
a mosque, next to the school. There were actually no hostages in the school. Later
on, one of the murderers, came out from mosque and Fired on Police Forces and
got shot by police. Rest of the Three also came out, just after the first one being hit
by the bullet and they also opened up the fire on Police. At that point all three of the
murderers got killed by the police.

Police found heavy arms from the car of the murderers including one Rocket
Launcher, Five shells, 22 Bombs, six Time Bombs, Two L.G.M, Two pistols, One
Mouser, a ClashanCoff gun and a big stock of Bullets.

According to the police all the four murderers belong to “Lashkar-e-Jhangvi”
(Jhangvi’s army, named after a religious leader “Haq Nawaz Jhangvi” who was
assassinated few years ago. ) which is a wing of “Sipah-e-Sahaba” ( meaning
Soldiers of Prophet Mohammad’s (SAW) Companions, A notorious religious gang
of dangerous terrorists. ) In the past, Police had announced a reward of Rs.
10,00,000 for one of the murderers i.e. “Tariq Wirk” and the other one was
identified as “Ijaz”, known as " Jajji " (“Ijaz Jajji”), he was right hand of one of the
most notorious terrorists in Pakistan known as “Riaz Basra”. There was also a
reward of Rs. 50,00,000 on the head of “Jaji”.

_________________________________

So now you should understand the whole story and basically the weapons were in the terrorist’s car.

Then you said

but I would condemn it with more intensity if some one tries to play politics politics on dead bodies.
Blaming the whole sunnies or shias for the killing is only a sickness of minds.

We are not playing politics. Please tell me that if you find people of sipah sahaba and others involved in it, who would you blame? I mean Ijaz Jaji and others belonged to that group. You know that, we know that and the police know that. So why complain. You have to accept the reality.

MIRZA YASIR

[email protected]

Homepages
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20

Brother Abdulla!

Masha Allah! Well done for the excellent posts. The adeedah of the Ahle Sunnah w'al Jamaat is clear on these kuffaar aka Qadianis.

Islam has divided the world into 2 parts:

  1. Muslims 2. Kaafirs

  2. is further divided into
    a) Ahle Sunnah w'al Jamaat i.e. by ijma today this is all those with the same aqeedah as the Imams of the Ahle Sunnah in Beleifs ie Imam al Ash'aree and Imam al Maturidi raheemUllah as they had the same aqeedah as that of the Sahaaba and Our Master SAyyedna Rasool Allah sal Allahu alayhi wa sallam. In practise this means all those today who follow one of the 4 madhhabs of Sunni Islam: Hanafi/Maliki/Shafi'i/Hanbali

b) Ahl -e- Bida': all those who say the kalimah but do not follow one of the 4 madhhabs of Sunni fiqh.

If they have beliefs which are against the nass-clear-- held beliefs of the Muslims such as khatm-e-nabbuwat then they are kaafirs whether they read the kalimah\pray\or not.

Please see my post entitled 'To Stud' above. It has lots of info. on it and references.

About killing of individuals, I don't think it is right but all those who insult the Messenger of Allah must be killed if their guilt is proven by the STATE.

As Pakistanis, Qadianis should have the same rights as the other non-Muslim citizens of Pakistan.

wa salaam ala maanitaba al huda