Ahmadi/Qadyani

Society Religion & Philosophy
21

RE: CoolDude / PakistaniAbroad

This verse (like others) has been discussed many times over here, and every time it has been insisted that Ahmadi translation is incorrect and unacceptable. However the fact is, all other Muslim Scholars has translated the words “mutawaffi” and ‘Rafa” in this verse to support their concept of Jesus Physical Ascension.
The actual verse (i.e. 3:56), is one of the 30 verses which proves that JESUS died a natural death.
The actual verse in Arabic is read as *“wa is qalal laho ya eesa inni mutawafika wa rafayoka”, *](http://www.unn.ac.uk/societies/islamic/quran/arabic/3_55.gif)

The translation as presented by Muslim Scholars:
Behold! Allah said: "O Jesus! I will take you and raise you to Myself…

However throughout Quran both words tawaf’fani and rafa has been used several times and not even on a single place they have been translated as such.

To dilate my argument further allow me to explain the meaning of the above words in the light of Quran.

Meaning Of word ‘Mutawaffi’
The word ‘Mutawaffi’ is derived from ‘Tawaffa’. When Allah is the subject and a human being the object, Tawaffa has no other meaning than that of taking away the soul, whether in sleep or death. The word has been used in no less than 25 different places in the Quran and in no less than 23 of them the meaning is to take away the soul at the time of death. Only in two places the meaning is to take away the soul at the time of sleep; but here the qualifying word ‘sleep’ or ‘night’ has been added (Chap. Al-Anam, verse 60 & Chap. Al-Zumar, verse 42).

**Reference Verses:

  • Al-Baqara 2:240 –** …those of you who die…
  • ** Al-Baqara 2:234** – …those of you who die…
  • ** Al-Imran 3:193** – …and make us die in the state of righteousness…
  • ** An-Nisâ’ 4:15** – …until death comes to them…
  • ** An-Nisâ’ 4:97** – …those whom the angels take (in death)…
  • Al-An’âm 6:60 – …It is He, Who takes your souls by night …
  • ** Al-A’râf 7:37** – …come to them to take their souls …
  • ** Al-A’râf 7:126** – …and cause us to die as Muslims…
  • ** Ar-Ra’d 13:40** – …cause you to die…
  • ** Yunus 10:46** – …We cause you to die…
  • ** Yusuf 12:101** – …cause me to die as a Muslim…
  • ** An-Nahl 16:70** – …He will cause you to die …
  • ** Al-Hajj 22:5** – …and among you there is he who dies …
  • ** As-Sajda 32:11** – …will take your souls …
  • ** Az-Zumar 39:42** – …It is Allâh Who takes away the souls …
  • ** Muhamad 47:27 **– …when the angels will take their souls at death …

Meaning Of word ‘Rafa’
The word ‘Rafa’ signifies raising the status and the rank of a person and honoring him. When the ‘Raf’ of a person is spoken of as being towards Allah, the meaning is invariably his spiritual ascension, because Allah not being material or confined to any place, no physical ascension to Him is possible. The raising of Jesus is mentioned in the verse under comment in reply to the false claim of the Jews that he died an accursed death on the cross. The word has been used in Quran in this sense in the following verses:

Reference Verses
** - 2:253*** –‘These Messengers have We exalted some of them above them above others; among them there are those to whom Allah spoke; and some of them He exalted in degrees of rank. ….’ *
** - 7:176*** - ‘And if We had pleased, We would have exalted him thereby; but he inclined to the earth and follow his evil desires. His case, therefore, is like the case of a thirsty dog; if thou drive him away, he hangs out his tongue. Such is the case of the people who disbelieve in Our Signs. So relate to them this narrative that they may reflect.’ *
** - 19:57** – ’ And We exalted him to a lofty station.’ *
** - 24:36* –* ‘This light illumines houses with regard to which Allah has ordained that they be** exalted** and that His name be remembered in them. Therein do glorify Him in the mornings and the evenings.’ *
** - 35:10*** - ‘Whoso desire honour, let him know that all honour belongs to Allah. Unto Him ascend pure words, and righteous deeds does He exalt, and those who planned evils - for them is a severe punishment; and the planning of such will perish.’*

These are some examples, if you desire I can quote more but my question is, If the word RAFA is translated as ’exalted’ throughout the Quran then what’s blocking your way to translate the same over here also? and so is the meaning of “Tawaffa”

jazakallah

[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited March 01, 2002).]

22

Oh man! I wrote this answer which I thought would sufice but Zalim bhai always go the extra mile!

The word in Arabic text is mutawaff, derived from tawaffa. When God is the subject and a human is the object, tawaffa means to take away the soul, i.e, death.

Note that the same word Tawaffa, has been used in other places in the Quran to indicate death. For example, 2:234: it is used as yatawaffou-na and the three translators that you quoted translate it as ‘to die’

So, maybe you should ask them why they translate the same word differently at different places.

23

are you sure about the word mutawafeeka?

I've just looked in my Quran (arabic) and tried to find the same word in your examples. They are NOT the same.

Compare like for like. Where in the Quran is the word mutawafeeka used and the translators have given*2* seperate meanings?

Please be specific. We will cover other topics after this inshallah.

24

Zalim my friend.. you are preaching to the choir here.

translators try to wriggle out of translating 'wafat' by using "take thee" or "terminate the period of stay" etc etc, but it's hilarious to see them translate it as death in other places!

face it people.. 'wafat' is death and the 'raise thee' is 'exalt' increase in stature, respect, rutba.. not phsycial.

Jesus is dead.. move along.. nothing to see there.

There is No Spoon

25

Right!!!!!!!!!!!

26

Hi i am Ahmadi muslim, i am sick to reading these things so what i can do is anyone who is from toronto, canada want to know truth about Ahmadiyyat and wants to ask anything about it email me at
[email protected]
i will contact that person personally and on phone cuz now i am sick to wirte and argue on baseless things.... so please don`t be shy to ask anything just email me if u r interested and i will give to my phone number and inshallah try to help you as much as i can,
may Allah enable us to understad truth....

27

[quote]
Originally posted by cute_bobby:
Hi i am Ahmadi muslim, i am sick to reading these things so what i can do is anyone who is from toronto, canada want to know truth about Ahmadiyyat and wants to ask anything about it email me at
[email protected]
i will contact that person personally and on phone cuz now i am sick to wirte and argue on baseless things.... so please don`t be shy to ask anything just email me if u r interested and i will give to my phone number and inshallah try to help you as much as i can,
may Allah enable us to understad truth....
[/quote]

listen bro thats nice to hear that u r here to help us lol......but i prefer if u stay away from us it will be better!!

atleast im not intrested and never will be in such corrupt and bogus beliefs of urz!

any sin is forgiven but not "SHIRK"
(You ppl do shirt)-->> striaght up!

im not trying to diss u or insult u but this is wot i think and infact, most % of muslims think the same soo....sorry for being rude or wotever u think but i cant help it sorry!

"if u r interested and i will give to my phone number and inshallah try to help you as much as i can,
may Allah enable us to understad truth"

lol wot truth u r talking about would u mind explaining that ? plzz

Thank You

[This message has been edited by Rehaan (edited March 03, 2002).]

28

Mr. rehaan
Well anyway thanks for your comments you know what fortunately i dont have habbit to say anything wrong about any religion, and if u say anything wrong abt my faith then listen
" GOLD ALWAYS REMAINS GOLD AND NEVER RUSTs LIKE IRON",
i think u understand if not then let me explain you that what u think from your such ....... comments i will change my faith or my faith will be like your comments so bro. noone can stop me to preach other people about my faith. and specially in this country where u and i live and
forexample, let me tell you something if somehow u find me teaching about ahmadiyyat to any non-ahmadi and if u will try to stop me, i have full right to slap your face and make a case on you....... so anyways this thing is other than topic discussion.
anyhow again i will say if anyone wants to know True about Ahmadiyyat then let me know, i will glad to help you.
Allah Hafiz
may Allah enable us to understand the truth. and rehaan to better know what truth i am talking about.

29

yeah one thing Rehaan i forget, i really want to have your phone number if u r in toronto cuz i really dont want to come on chat again and again to view your bogus comments. "dont mind to being rude or whatever"

http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smilies/wink.gif

30

Listen your mahdis mahdiat hasnt worked. Muslims r still without a leader and on top all its been more than 100 years since he came. I think 100 years is alot of time for a real prophet and mahdi to get influence on the people of that faith..

still keep trying only Allah is a judje!

31

*Re: reza khan ”I think 100 years is a lot of time for a real prophet and mahdi to get influence on the people of that faith..” **
well not exactly true, on the canvas of religions, 100 years is not a sufficient time, for example ashaab-e-kahaf, (the people of the cave) the followers of Jesus(as) took shelter for over 300 years in caves and mountains from the Jewish persecution.

On the other hand, as for ahmadiyyat-the true Islam, let me give you some shocking figures. Last year only over 80 million entered Islam through Ahmadiyyat - The scene as sketched in Sura Al-Nasr. And amazingly the figures are doubling every year, and I hope the days are near when you will see within your life time, the flourishing of Islam through this sect.

IS this sign of truth is not enough, have you ever seen a liar prospering? Quran says “for a Liar his lie is sufficient to kill him, if you don’t trust us, have faith in Quran atleast.

Ask Allah if you doubt, He won’t misguide you.

[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited March 04, 2002).]

32

Re: CoolDude,; “ are you sure about the word mutawafeeka? I’ve just looked in my Quran (arabic) and tried to find the same word in your examples. They are NOT the same. Compare like for like. Where in the Quran is the word mutawafeeka used and the translators have given2 seperate meanings?” **
Dear cooldude bahi, I have given you the root word from which the word “mutawaffi-ka” is derived from. If you lookup any Arabic lexicon, you will find this “same” word under the root word of “tawafa”. Arabic is a language with an intense and complete grammar, unfortunately I am not an Arabic literate to give you a detail answer, but for now consider this as your homework.

I was searching the said word on internet and found some related sites, hope this might give you an insight as well.

[Q] If you think that ‘mutawaffi-ka’ means, “I will take you”, “I will gather you”, what does these meaning refers to, where was he taken, where was he gathers? Also justify your answer, on what basis you are translating this word as such?

As well, do let me know your opinion about the next word in the verse, i.e **RAFA **

PS: review this verse also 5:117

Jazakallah

33

my friend mahdi is supposed to lead the believers not divide them. secondly the mahdi is supposed to fight injustice. has mirza done anything to fight injustice. Instead banning jehad..

34

dear khan sahab, its not ahmadis who divide the ummah, its the prophecy which has lead to its division..

>> Read this <<](http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/Forum13/HTML/002563.html)

ahmadis are infact working day and night to bring the whole mankind under the roof of Prophet Mohammad(sa). for examle the MTA (Muslim Television Ahmadiyya)](http://www.alislam.org/mta/) is the only ISLAMIC satellite channel running 24 hours a day, sending the message of Islam throughout the world. and through this millions are entering Islam, just show me any comparable to this only. my dear brother, you will not find any jamaat working so hard to spread Islam.

irony is people even dont know a pinch about this divine jamaat. all they have heard is from their elders, and their madarsas and their environment…

try asking Allah this time.

jazakallah

[This message has been edited by Zalim (edited March 05, 2002).]

35

Qadyani/Lahori/Ahmadi are kaafir and Kaadhib..

here is what you asked:
http://www.studyislam.com/sitefiles/index.htm

Friendship is like Heaven but it may really hurt you like hell**!**

Ðëkhå jö tëë® khåä kå¥ kåmëëñ gåh kÏ Tå®åf
Äpñä¥ hëë Ðö§töuñ §å¥ mu£ååqåt hö gäÏë

~Dehnchu Dehnchu~ ¤Representing Group of Gadha§ in Religion Forum¤

36

Thank u gadhay, i think u sarted dhenchu dhenchuu when u saw the shaitan!!!!!!!!!

37

Listen!

Why cant you let people be? Ahmadies, Qadyanis, Cristains, Jews ect. Are always being picked on by you people who claim to say 'peace' when they meet. If they dont want to listen why are you forcing thier ears open?

38

"Qadyani/Lahori/Ahmadi are kaafir and Kaadhib.... no doubt when people have nothing best to say they spout "dhanchu-dhanchu" type statements which are only understood by dhanchu-dhanchu type crowd.

39

Raaj-dulara, are you implying that Reza Khan is an ass?

40

NYAhmadi,

As an admirer of Jesus, i'm deeply hurt by your derogatory use of his favourite means of transport.

There is No Spoon