Re: Ahl E Hadith
Watcher, good to have you back! :k:
Re: Ahl E Hadith
is there an end to your lies or misconceptions?
http://www.jamatuddawa.org/data1/pages/tariqa.htm
they openly say that they do not take pakistani law in their own hands. that is why they are so open in pakistan. they still have offices and camps there because paki govt does not consider them a threat…
i have no affiliation with them but those are just facts that i m relating
Re: Ahl E Hadith
^-- say what you want.. I'll be honest, and the fact is that i've hung around enough ahlul hadith people here in pakistan (or atleast karachi) and the name of LT has never come up, so like i said, they're a minority.
Re: Ahl E Hadith
MAinstream Ahle hadith group in pakistan is called jamit e ghurbai ahle hadith.
They are non muqallid muqallids. i-e the curse imam Abu hanifah and others and thier followers for blindly following them and then do the same by following other ahle hadith aalim
Biggest ahle hadith aalim of pakistan was Moulana Abdul qadir roopri.
Rehman1 if you more detal please go to jamiah tamimah at nipa..i belive you are still in karachi
Re: Ahl E Hadith
Asalaamu Alaikum. so wot if we are a minority? does that mean we are wrong?
Re: Ahl E Hadith
^ he said LT are a minority
Re: Ahl E Hadith
Lashkar e tayyba have more following in interior of punjab...like mureedkay / lahore/gujranwala
Re: Ahl E Hadith
those ppl who curse ulama of islam are to be condemned. i know many so called “ahle hadiths” have corrupted the faith by being so arrogant about fiqhi issues that it seems like that prophet SAW came only for making rafalyadain or fighting with hanafies. but alhamdullillah true muslims do not condemn ppl for disagreeing on fiqhi issues. doesnt mean we say taqleed is ok, but we say since a large part of the ummah does so, we can not condemn ppl for this act. wallah o alam
Re: Ahl E Hadith
Could you guys write in complete sentences with appropriate grammar? Its easier to understand what you're trying to say.
Re: Ahl E Hadith
Brother shoaib, I believe the defination you have given above i.e. “…own interpretation of Quran & Hadith and ‘discard’ interpretation of all great Aemas…” might be something which you have in mind. If you have any proof to that please bring forward otherwise be kind enough to state that this is ‘what you know’ about them and dont state it as a fact.
I’m an ignorant by tell you what I’ll bring forward some facts which will show that Ahl-e-Salf are the only people who follow all the above named Imams.
There is nothing like “sharia law” in Islam. Islam gives a way of living which is disclosed in Quran and Sunnah. Everying has to be aligned with the devine revelation. The term Sharia Law, I beleive came into existance when states started to have two law systems. One is the man made law and other the based on Quran and Sunnah. So what is wrong with following Quran and Sunnah. Btw the sharia law also aligns itself from the Quran and Sunnah.
Your uncle is an individaul case you might have misunderstood something. Otherwise, people who assosiate themselves as Ahl-e-Salf do have a concept of divorce, becuase it is a part of Quran and Sunnah. If your uncles didnt believe in it it doesnt mean all the Ahl-e-Salf do not believe iin this.
I’m amazed to see such facts coming out of peopl’s mind. Who gave you this defination of the Ahl-e-Salf.
I do agree with you that many Ahl-e-Hadith are arrogant, I’ve personaly met a few but that does not mean since they are arrogant what they follow is not correct.
Secondly if Rafalyadain is what Muhammad (s) did, then should we not do it?
Tell why were there no disagreements on the so called ‘fiqhi issues’ in the time of companions of Muhammad (s).
Brother, I think this should not be the approach of a Muslim, say large number of people do not pray, they drink and have illegitimate sex, whould we say “we can not condemn people for this act”. And is there anything in Quran or Sunnah which say if “large” part of ummah does something it becomes correct and legal.
Underneath are some of the facts which you may like to read and they help you to “know” little bit about things you have stated avbove.
Linguistically, taqleed means: Placing something around the neck, which encircles the neck. Technically it means: Following he whose sayings is not a proof (hujjah). So long as a Muslim is following the correct evidence (daleel) and has the desire to follow the Sunnah properly, there is no harm in following any of the Imams when it comes to rules of fiqh. In the case of the ordinary Muslim (who is not educated in fiqh), his madhhab (school of thought) is that of the mufti whose knowledge he trusts. But problems of the worst type occur when people become fanatically devoted to one particular Imam or Madhhab, to the extent that they reject the truth or ignore other sound evidence because of this.
Allaah warns against rejecting the word of the Prophet (peace and blessings of Allaah be upon him) (interpretation of the meaning):
“… And let those who oppose the Messenger’s commandment (i.e., his Sunnah) (among the sects) beware, lest some fitnah (disbelief, trials, afflictions, etc.) befall them or a painful torment be inflicted on them.” [al-Noor 24:63]
Quran also says: “Follow (O men!) the revelation given to you from your Lord, and follow not, as friends and protectors, other than Him. Little is it you remember of admonition.” [al-A’raaf, 7:3]
Those who claim to follow differnt Imams such as Abu Haneefa, Malik might hear the following for the first time:
Abu Haneefah Nu’maan ibn Thaabit, whose companions have narrated from him various sayings and diverse warnings, all of them leading to one thing: the obligation to accept the Hadeeth, and to give up following the opinions of the imaams which contradict it:
“It is not permitted [Ar.: halaal] for anyone to accept our views if they do not know from where we got them.” [SOURCE: Ibn ‘Abdul Barr in Al-Intiqaa’ fi Fadaa’il ath-Thalaathah al- A’immah al-Fuqahaa’ (p. 145), Ibn al-Qayyim in I’laam al- Mooqi’een (2/309), Ibn 'Aabideen in his Footnotes on Al-Bahr ar-Raa’iq (6/293) and in Rasm al-Mufti (pp. 29,32) & Sha’raani in Al-Meezaan (1/55) with the second narration. The last narration was collected by 'Abbaas ad-Dawri in At- Taareekh by Ibn Ma’een (6/77/1) with a saheeh sanad on the authority of Zafar, the student of Imaam Abu Haneefah. Similar narrations exist on the authority of Abu Haneefah’s companions Zafar, Abu Yoosuf and 'Aafiyah ibn Yazeed; cf. Eeqaaz (p. 52). Ibn al-Qayyim firmly certified its authenticity on the authority of Abu Yoosuf in I’laam al-Mooqi’een (2/344). The addition to the second narration is referenced by the editor of Eeqaaz (p. 65) to Ibn 'Abdul Barr, Ibn al-Qayyim and others. If this is what they say of someone who does not know their evidence, what would be their response to one who knows that the evidence contradicts their saying, but still gives verdicts opposed to the evidence?! Therefore, reflect on this saying, for it alone is enough to smash blind following of opinion; that is why one of the muqallid shaikhs, when I criticised his giving a verdict using Abu Haneefah’s words without knowing the evidence, refused to believe that it was a saying of Abu Haneefah!]
In another narration, “Woe to you, O Ya’qub! * Do not write down everything you hear from me, for it happens that I hold one opinion today and reject it tomorrow, or hold one opinion tomorrow and reject it the day after tomorrow.” [SOURCE: This was because the Imaam would often base his view on Qiyaas (Analogy), after which a more potent analogy would occur to him, or a hadeeth of the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) would reach him, so he would accept that and ignore his previous view. Sha’raani’s words in Al-Meezaan (1/62) are summarised as:
“Our belief, as well as that of every researcher into Imaam Abu Haneefah (radi Allaahu 'anhu), is that, had he lived until the recording of the Sharee’ah, and the journeys of the Preservers of Hadeeth to the various cities and frontiers in order to collect and acquire it, he would have accepted it and ignored all the analogies he had employed. The amount of qiyaas in his Madhhab would have been just as little as that in other Madhhabs, but since the evidences of the Sharee’ah had been scattered with the Successors and their successors, and had not been collected in his lifetime, it was necessary that there be a lot of qiyaas in his Madhhab compared to that of other imaams. The later scholars then made their journeys to find and collect ahaadeeth from the various cities and towns and wrote them down; hence, some ahaadeeth of the Sharee’ah explained others. This is the reason behind the large amount of qiyaas in his Madhhab, whereas there was little of it in other Madhhabs.”
Abul-Hasanaat Al-Lucknowi quoted his words in full in An- Naafi’ al-Kabeer (p. 135), endorsing and expanding on it in his footnotes, so whoever wishes to consult it should do so there.
Since this is the justification for why Abu Haneefah has sometimes unintentionally contradicted the authentic ahaadeeth - and it is a perfectly acceptable reason, for Allaah does not burden a soul with more than it can bear - it is not permissible to insult him for it, as some ignorant people have done. In fact, it is obligatory to respect him, for he is one of the imaams of the Muslims through whom this Deen has been preserved and handed down to us, in all its branches; also, for he is rewarded under any circumstance: whether he is correct or wrong. Nor is it permissible for his devotees to continue sticking to those of his statements which contradict the authentic ahaadeeth, for those statements are effectively not part of his Madhhab, as the above sayings show. Hence, these are two extremes, and the truth lies in between. “Our Lord! Forgive us, and our brethren who came before us into the Faith; and leave not, in our hearts, any rancour against those who have believed. Our Lord! You are indeed Full of Kindness, Most Merciful.” (Al-Hashr 59:10)]
“When I say something contradicting the Book of Allaah the Exalted or what is narrated from the Messenger (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam), then ignore my saying.” [SOURCE: Al-Fulaani in Eeqaaz al-Himam (p. 50), tracing it to Imaam Muhammad and then saying, “This does not apply to the mujtahid, for he is not bound to their views anyway, but it applies to the muqallid.”
Sha’raani expanded on that in Al-Meezaan (1/26):
“If it is said: ‘What should I do with the ahaadeeth which my Imaam did not use, and which were found to be authentic after his death?’ The answer which is fitting for you is: ‘That you act on them, for had your Imaam come across them and found them to be authentic, he would have instructed you to act on them, because all the Imaams were captives in the hand of the Sharee’ah.’ He who does so will have gathered all the good with both his hands, but he who says, ‘I will not act according to a hadeeth unless my Imaam did so’, he will miss a great amount of benefit, as is the case with many followers of the Imaams of the Madhhabs. It would be better for them to act on every hadeeth found to be authentic after the Imaam’s time, hence implementing the will of the Imaams; for it is our firm belief about the Imaams that had they lived longer and come to know of those ahaadeeth which were found authentic after their time, they would have definitely accepted and acted according to them, ignoring any analogies they may have previously made, and any views they may have previously held.”]
the disciples of the Imaams, a number of people from those of old, and a few from those of later time [cf. al-Waaqi’ah 56:13-14], would not accept all of their Imaam’s views; they actually ignored many when they found them to be clearly against the Sunnah. Even the two Imaams, Muhammad ibn al-Hasan and Abu Yoosuf (rahimahullaah) differed from their shaikh Abu Haneefah “in about a third of the Madhhab” [SOURCE: Ibn ‘Aabideen in Haashiyah (1/62), & Lucknowi gave its source in an-Naafi’ al-Kabeer (p. 93) as Ghazaali]
Imam Shafi (his saying to follow sunnah and igonore his decision):
“The Muslims are unanimously agreed that if a sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) is made clear to someone, it is not permitted [Ar.: halaal] for him to leave it for the saying of anyone else.” [Ibn al-Qayyim (2/361) & Fulaani (p. 68)]
“If you find in my writings something different to the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam), then speak on the basis of the Sunnah of the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam), and leave what I have said.”
“You [addressing Imaam Ahmad ibn Hanbal (rahimahullaah] are more knowledgeable about Hadeeth than I, so when a hadeeth is saheeh, inform me of it, whether it is from Kufah, Basrah or Syria, so that I may take the view of the hadeeth, as long as it is saheeh.” [Related by Ibn Abi Haatim in Aadaab ash-Shaafi’i (pp. 94-5), Abu Nu’aim in Hulyah al-Awliyaa’ (9/106), al-Khateeb in Al- Ihtijaaj bish-Shaafi’i (8/1), and from him Ibn 'Asaakir (15/9/1), Ibn ‘Abdul Barr in al-Intiqaa’ (p. 75), Ibn al-Jawzi in Manaaqib al-Imaam Ahmad (p. 499) & Harawi (2/47/2) with three routes from 'Abdullaah ibn Ahmad ibn Hanbal from his father that Shaafi’i said to him: …etc; thus, it is authentic on the authority of Shaafi’i. This is why Ibn al- Qayyim attributed it definitely to him in I’laam (2/325), as did Fulaani in Eeqaaz (p. 152) and then said: “Baihaqi said, 'This is why he - i.e. Shaafi’i - used hadeeth so much, because he gathered knowledge from the people of Hijaaz, Syria, Yemen and ‘Iraq, and so accepted all that he found to be authentic, without leaning towards or looking at what he had considered out of the Madhhab of the people of his land when the truth was clear to him elsewhere. Some of those before him would limit themselves to what they found in the Madhhab of the people of their land, without attempting to ascertain the authenticity of what opposed it. May Allaah forgive all of us’.”]
“For everything I say, if there is something authentic from the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) contrary to my saying, then the hadeeth of the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) comes first, so do not follow my opinion.” [Ibn Abi Haatim, Abu Nu’aim & Ibn 'Asaakir (15/9/2).]
“Every statement on the authority of the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) is also my view, even if you do not hear it from me.” [Ibn Abi Haatim (pp. 93-4).]
IMAM MALIK
Sayings of the Imaam Regarding Following the Sunnah and Ignoring their Views Contradictory To It
- “Truly I am only a mortal: I make mistakes (sometimes) and I am correct (sometimes). Therefore, look into my opinions: all that agrees with the Book and the Sunnah, accept it; and all that does not agree with the Book and the Sunnah, ignore it.”
2)“Everyone after the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam) will have his sayings accepted and rejected - not so the Prophet (sallallaahu 'alaihi wa sallam).” [SOURCE for both 1) & 2) This is well known among the later scholars to be a saying of Maalik. Ibn 'Abdul Haadi declared it saheeh in Irshaad as- Saalik (227/1); Ibn ‘Abdul Barr in Jaami’ Bayaan al-'Ilm (2/91) & Ibn Hazm in Usool al-Ahkaam (6/145, 179) had narrated it as a saying of Al-Hakam ibn 'Utaibah and Mujaahid; Taqi ad- Deen as-Subki gave it, delighted with its beauty, in al- Fataawaa (1/148) as a saying of Ibn 'Abbaas, and then said: “These words were originally those of Ibn 'Abbaas and Mujaahid, from whom Maalik (radi Allaahu 'anhu) took them, and he became famous for them.” It seems that Imaam Ahmad then took this saying from them, as Abu Daawood has said in Masaa’il of Imaam Ahmad (p. 276): “I heard Ahmad say, 'Everyone is accepted and rejected in his opinions, with the exception of the Prophet (sallallaahu ‘alaihi wa sallam)’.”]
The Quran says:
“But no, by Your Lord, they can have no (real) faith, until they make you judge in all disputes between them, and find in their souls no resistance against your decisions, but accept them with the fullest conviction.”[an-Nisaa’, 4:65]
“Then let those beware who withstand the Messenger’s order, lest some trial befall them or a grievous penalty be inflicted on them.”[an-Noor, 24:63]
A few years back I couldnt decide which Imam to follow. Because if I follow one Imam I’d not be following the three others which in my opinion seems to be a disrepsect to three great scholars for not doing what they have told to do.
I carried out some research and the finding are mentioned above. And I came to realise that all the Imams have one things in common i.e. they realise they since they are human they can make mistakes and therefore they told the followers to follow the Quran and Sunnah. Thus I reached the conclusion that Ahl-e-Salf are the only people who actually follow all the four great Imams rest jsut claim to do so.
Surely Allah (swt) knows the best.*
Re: Ahl E Hadith
bro SI, i totally agree with you post. i did not say they are mistaken, but some salafis ignore the big issues in favor of the small issues. i believe pants should be above the ankles, but it used to be that the first thing i would take in consideration when judging a person used to be his pants. if the pants were above the ankles i would like him otherwise i wont. i think it might have been a little extreme approach, most people do not know of its importance, so we can give muslims some leeway and excuse their actions as much as possible, as i have heard a hadith not sure of its authenticity that says that make 70 excuses for your muslim brother.
and your point about rafalyadain. yes since the prophet SAW did to rafalyadain, we do it too, but would you not pray behind an imam who does not? i have heard of ppl who do that. now that is going to extremes i think. no scholar of the salaf has called ppl not worthy to be prayed behind if they dont do rafalyadain. abdullah azzam is not a prophet but he is a respected scholar, and he advised the arabs to pray like hanafis in afghanistan in the begining cuz afghanis had not seen the rafalyadain done before and were getting antagonized. so he advised them to stop it for a while until the afghanis were taught about the sunnah. so even though he believed in one issue, he saw it beneficial to temporarily leave it for the greater good. wallah o alam.
and you were correct about taqleed, nothing can be added to your statement. but i would like to clarify my point that no i do not think that if a large number of ppl do sins we ignore it or dont talk about it. but for the sake of unity i think for now we should be lenient on this issue. other than barelvis, who are mushrikeen asli, i think all sunni muqqallid groups can be reconciled with until the war situation is eased inshaallah. i read some where some ppl saying i like those mujahideen who are salafis and not those who are deobandis..i thought to my self that it is only from shaytan, who wants to make us in sects. as long as their tawheed and aqeedah regarding other issues like risalah, akhirah and azab al qabr is correct, we should have some leniency and work towards unity rather than sectarian fights. wallah o alam.
Re: Ahl E Hadith
^^ Agreed ...
I do not think that these issues like rafyadain-taqleed are big enough to be given some time by muslim circles today..
Assalam Aleekum Can anybody tell me who are they In Pakistan. Is It a political or religious patry. Are there more than one Jamaats.
Take Care
AHL-e-Hadees are true muslims.
main recently AHL-e-Hadees hoa hon.
Re: Ahl E Hadith
^feel sorry for you.
^feel sorry for you.
ahlul hadith are gheer muqlid, but they are follower of imam ibn tayymiyah rah, they are true muslims.
^feel sorry for you.
even though that brother's statement is extreme but please do not feel sorry for this brother and also those who are upon haqq. You should spend more time on preparing yourself for muharram (healthy body is the key for more blood) and praying to your Imams
ahlul hadith are gheer muqlid, but they are follower of imam ibn tayymiyah rah, they are true muslims.
bro, how does that contradictory statement make any sense: ghayr muqalid but also followers of Shaykh ul-Islam (rahimahullah)? They actually do not follow any particular scholar but they may seem to appear following some due to their closeness to hanabli scholars (i.e., Ahmad ibn Hanbal, Ibn Qadamah, ibn Taymiyyah, ibn Qayyim, Abdul Wahab - may Allah have mercy on them).
The paki ahl hadis have adopted this new usul to look at fiqh which was started by Imam Shawkani (rahimahullah) and then followed by Shaykh al-Albani and Muqbil (may Allah have mercy on them). Unlike these ulama, the paki ahle hadis are bit more extreme due to ta'ssub and extremism in other groups in indo pak area. They do not have proper works on usul al-fiqh unlike the main stream Ahle al-Hadith (Malikis, Shafi'is, Hanablis).
and Allah knows best
Re: Ahl E Hadith
Salam !
I am a new member and need to PM but can't.
Can Ammar, AllahkaBanda and all Ahle Hadith brothers / sisters on GS mail me on
saadaat at live.com
It's important and I need to ask something in private.
Thanks for your co-operation in advance.