Re: Ahadith from Bukhari
Lajawab: 
Thank you so much 
Re: Ahadith from Bukhari
Lajawab;
I havent read your post completely but it seems that you’ve put quite effort into it.It looks Good.
Re: Ahadith from Bukhari
Hello People,
It will be wise to ponder quran which is authentic. And by qurans authenticity you accept or reject any saying in the name of our prophet Mohammed pbuh.
Quran has ultimate say not the hadith.
cheers!
Re: Ahadith from Bukhari
O Curious one
You are at it again. Trying to find faults in Sahih Bukhari. I am not claiming that Sahih Bukhari is infallible – but keep in mind that it is the most authentic book after the Quran.
You remind me of the poor souls who spend their precious time looking for faults in the Quran and yet miss the entire sublime message in it. How I pity you.
Take my advice and stick to Al-Kafi for a while and let the Sunnis stick to al Bukhari.
1) For the first hadith you have quoted the answer lies in the link below:
Abu Hurayra’s Two Vessels of Knowledge - Read all of it and you will get your answer.
http://www.abc.se/~m9783/n/ahtv_e.html
*Abd Allâh ibn Amr ibn al-As. stood weeping before the Kaba which had been destroyed and burnt by the army of H.usayn ibn Numayr al-Sakûnî12 in the year 63 and said: "People! By Allâh, if Abû Hurayra had informed you that you would be fighting the grandson of your Prophet - Allâh bless and greet him and his Family - and burn the House of your Lord, you would have said there is no worse liar than Abû Hurayra! And now you know, therefore, expect Divine revenge." - Narrated from Ubayd Allâh ibn Saîd by Ibn Asâkir in Târîkh Dimashq (13:206) and cited by al-Dhahabî in the chapter on Abd Allâh ibn Amr in the Siyar (*4:266).
2) For the second hadith:
I have read but cannot find the reference for it. Take or leave it.
In this hadith Hz. Abu Huraira (ra) narrates the hadith saying; “The Prophet said……..”
So when he had narrated the full saying of the Prophet (saw), the listeners questioned him: “O Abu Huraira! Did you hear that from Allah’s Apostle?"
As he had already told them that he was relating from the Prophet (saw), his reply was rather sarcastic, saying; “No, it is from my own self.”
In other words he is saying that he had already told them that he was quoting the Prophet.
You will find that the Prophet (saw) had said the same things in many other narrations of his. So there was nothing new that Hz. Abu Huraira (ra) was adding from himself.
**3) ** There is a similar narration that Hz Bilal al Habshi (ra) used to perform the ablution in the similar method (up to armpits) because he had heard from the Prophet (saw) saying that the parts washed during the Wudu regularly will be shining brightly on the day of Qiyama and will be adorned with heavenly adornments. So Hz. Bilal used to wash all of his arms.
Now what’s your problem with that? While performing ablutions the Sunnis wash their feet thoroughly while the Shias just wipe their feet with wet hands – do you object to that too?
It is well known that Shias single out Hz. Abu Huriara (ra) for ‘special treatment’ – you are just following your instincts.
Don’t let your curiosity kill you just like the proverbial cat got done by over curiosity. As I said before - Stick to Al - Kafi and you will be in a good company 
Brother Lajawab - Well said!
THE BEST HADITH
There is just ONE Hadith that deem to be authentic and also encourage all people to goto;
"Allah has revealed herein the best Hadith; a book that is consistent, and points out both ways. The skins of those who reverence their Lord cringe therefrom, then their skins and their hearts soften up for The Allah's message. Such is The Allah's guidance; He bestows it upon whoever wills. As for those sent astray by The GOD, nothing can guide them." (Quran 39:23)
Also I would like to remind fellow folks;
"Do not accept anything that you have no knowledge of. Surely the hearing, the sight and the mind you are responsible for." (Quran, 17:36)
“And We have cited for mankind in this Quran of every example, but most of mankind refuse to be anything but a rejecter!.” (Quran 17:89)
Btw, I am not a hadith rejector however I accept the hadith that has been qualified by the Quran, for me there is no such thing that "a hadith qualifies the Quran".
cheers!
Re: Ahadith from Bukhari
[quote]
I was once talking to a Shia and he said in an indubitable indignant style, "Astaghfirullah, in your books of Ahadith, your Abu Huraira gave feet, hands and face to Allah...Astaghfirullah, you have made Allah like us..."
Incidentally, I knew one of many Ayahs from the Quran which mentions physical depictions of Allah...So I told him that Ayah (5:64)...
[/quote]
Interesting. 5:64 is :
[quote]
[5:64] The Jews even said, "GOD's hand is tied down!" It is their hands that are tied down. They are condemned for uttering such a blasphemy. Instead, His hands are wide open, spending as He wills. For certain, your Lord's revelations to you will cause many of them to plunge deeper into transgression and disbelief. Consequently, we have committed them to animosity and hatred among themselves until the Day of Resurrection. Whenever they ignite the flames of war, GOD puts them out. They roam the earth wickedly, and GOD dislikes the evildoers.
[/quote]
In this instance I would have to say that the "hands" are not physical hands, in the conception of the jews or of Allah, merely alleging powelessness. This is indicated by the latter part of the verse where the jews are lighting the "flames" of war. Unless your suggesting that the flames are literal too, and Allah's Hands are physically putting those fires out, the figurative view is more reasonable.
I'd be interested in learning the other verses you know of.
Re: Ahadith from Bukhari
^that jews do not believe in physical manifestation of God is affirmed by the following from Maimonides 13 principles of Jewish faith:
Re: Ahadith from Bukhari
nice post ibn sadique.
Re: Ahadith from Bukhari
Hello folks,
What does the word 'hadith' means ?
cheers!
Re: Ahadith from Bukhari
Brother ravage – The translation of ayah 5:64 that you have quoted in not really correct.
See the following translations by the various well known translators.
And the Jews say: The hand of Allah is tied up! Their hands shall be shackled and they shall be cursed for what they say. Nay, both His hands are spread out, He expends as He pleases; and what has been revealed to you from your Lord will certainly make many of them increase in inordinacy and unbelief; and We have put enmity and hatred among them till the day of resurrection; whenever they kindle a fire for war Allah puts it out, and they strive to make mischief in the land; and Allah does not love the mischief-makers. [Shakir 5:64]
The Jews say: “Allah’s hand is tied up.” Be their hands tied up and be they accursed for the (blasphemy) they utter. Nay, both His hands are widely outstretched: He giveth and spendeth (of His bounty) as He pleaseth. But the revelation that cometh to thee from Allah increaseth in most of them their obstinate rebellion and blasphemy. Amongst them we have placed enmity and hatred till the Day of Judgment. Every time they kindle the fire of war, Allah doth extinguish it; but they (ever) strive to do mischief on earth. And Allah loveth not those who do mischief. [Yusufali 5:64]
The Jews say: Allah’s hand is fettered. Their hands are fettered and they are accursed for saying so. Nay, but both His hands are spread out wide in bounty. He bestoweth as He will. That which hath been revealed unto thee from thy Lord is certain to increase the contumacy and disbelief of many of them, and We have cast among them enmity and hatred till the Day of Resurrection. As often as they light a fire for war, Allah extinguisheth it. Their effort is for corruption in the land, and Allah loveth not corrupters. [Pickthal 5:64]
Transliteration:
5:64 Waqalati alyahoodu yadu Allahi maghloolatun ghullat aydeehim waluAAinoo bima qaloo bal yadahu mabsootatani yunfiqu kayfa yashao walayazeedanna katheeran minhum ma onzila ilayka min rabbika tughyanan wakufran waalqayna baynahumu alAAadawata waalbaghdaa ila yawmi alqiyamati kullama awqadoo naran lilharbi atfaaha Allahu wayasAAawna fee alardi fasadan waAllahu la yuhibbu almufsideena
Note that the Arabic word “Yadahu” means “his two hands”.
You must be aware that Arabic language has two plurals, one for dual and the other for more than two. The word “Yadahu” is in dual plural.
I am not advocating that Allah (swt) has 2 hands like any creation of His creation either in physical form or in any sort of imagination.
Read the following to know where the Sunnis stand on Attributes of Allah (swt).
Imam Abu Hanifah (rahimullah) has said: Allah ta’aala ought not be described by attributes of the creation. His Anger and Pleasure are two attributes of His without kayf (mannership), which is the mazhab of AhluSunnah wal Jamaa’ah. He gets angry and gets pleased. It should not be said that His punishment represents His anger and His reward represents His pleasure.
We attribute to Him what He has attributed for Himself: the One and Only, the Eternal, Absolute, He begetteth not, nor is He begotten, And there is none like unto Him. (He is) Living, Able, All-Hearing, All-Seeing, All-Knowing, [The hand of Allah is above their hands], yet His hand is not like the hand of His creation, nor His Face is like the face of His creation. (al-Fiqh al-Absat, 56)
He also said: He has a Hand, a Face and a Self, as Allah ta’aala has mentioned in the Qur’an. Whatever Allah ta’aala has mentioned in the Qur’an concerning the Face, Hand and self, these are Attributes for Him without mannership. Thus it should not be said that His Hand is His Power or Grace, because that would constitute a negation for the Attribute, which is theory of Qadris and Mu’tazilah. (al-Fiqh al-Akbar 302)
He also said: He does not resemble anything of His creation, nor anything of His creation resembles Him. He still is and continues to be with His Names and Attribues. (Al-Fiqh al-Akbar, 301)
And he said: His Attributes are unlike the creation’s attributes. He knows unlike the way we know, and He is able but unlike our ability, He sees but unlike our seeing, He hears but unlike our hearing, and He speaks but unlike our speaking. (Al-Fiqh al-Akbar, 302)
And he said: Whosoever ascribes to Allah a meaning (of an attribute) belonging to mankind, becomes a disbeliever. (al-Aqeedah Al-Tahaawiyyah)
He also said: Allah taala’s attributes cannot be ascribed with attributes of the creation. (al-Fiqh al-Absat, 56)
Can you please try to explain why Allah (swt) has quantified that He has “two hands”. And what do you understand by ‘two hands’ of Allah (swt).
Re: Ahadith from Bukhari
[/quote]
Like you say, arabic has two plurals, for dual and for more than two. Tell me though, how many hands do you have? And when someone says “My hands are tied”, does the phrase suggest to your mind there could be three hands? Is the implicit meaning there not of two hands? A translation of this phrase into arabic should use the plural connoting two, otherwise it wouldnt make sense.
“Yadahu” doesnt make the verse any more literal than saying “my hands are tied” makes that phrase literal.
I am entirely not sure what you mean to say, or what the perspective of Imam Abu Hanifah is.
On the one hand you say Allah does not have two hands like his creation (which would mean your not literally reading the word “yadahu”) on the other you quote Imam Abu Hanifa saying that he does have a Hand, but what does that mean? On the one hand you say ascribing a simile of His Hand to his creations is disbelief, which would suggest your advocating not to read the word Hand in the meaning we would associate with it literally (human hands), but on the other you say that a non-literal reading of it is incorrect?
Can you explain in simpler terms what Allah’s Hand is supposed to be. Is it a physical Hand? If so are you not ascribing to Allah a feature of His creation? What does it mean to be “unlike” His creation, does that mean unlike in form, unlike in feature, what exactly can you say in specific, non-vague terms? If you say you dont know then thats a non-sequiter, and does not defend the ahadis against charges of introducing corporeality of Allah (which was Lajawab’s point), because your only citing Quranic verses mentioning a Hand that you dont know is corporeal or not.
Saying that Allah is all-hearing, all-knowing is ofcourse easy and everyone will agree with you. But I see too many contradictions here. How is it simultaneously possible to believe in a physical Hand while saying that we shouldnt ascribe a meaning belonging to mankind (physicality!)?
At the very least, I think you are agreeing that a “zahiri” meaning of this verse is to be avoided because you say He doenst have 2 hands. and the suggestion that Allah is physically putting out the fires Jews start with his Hand is very unsound, and thereby Allah’s hands being tied or not being tied connotes powerlessness and not the presence/absence of a rope.
Furthermore, if you suggest that no, we should read this literally, and that Allah does have a physical dimension, that the jews considered it to be tied up (physically) but Allah says it is infact not tied up and is actively putting out the fires they light (with His Hand) then you run the risk of saying that the Quran is inaccurate nauzubillah, since it is part of the jewish equivalent of the shahada that Allah has no physical manifestation.
Sorry this reply is confused, Im completely unsure of what you mean by his Hand that is disbelief to understand in attributes of men (of which physicality is a part) but also disbelief to understand in non-physical (and non-literal) terms?
So lets start with a simple question. Does Allah have a physical manifestation, physical face, physical eyes, physical Hands? And in the verse quoted, is Allah physically putting out fires lit by Jews which they were lighting at different places?
Re: Ahadith from Bukhari
Ravage, you can’t attribute literalism to Allah :swt:…
Everything that presecribes to His having features is purely depictional and representative and the same goes in Ahadith…
Like for example the Hadith, after the Hell is full, it will ask for even more souls…Thereupon, Allah :swt: will push His heel into its entrance and say ‘Enough! Enough!’
The heel is not literal…It is symbolic…
Re: Ahadith from Bukhari
^Im not sure Sadique bhai’s interpretation is the same as yours, I think hes saying Allah’s Hand is not “like” man’s hands, which can be interpreted to leave room for a physical (though different from mankind’s) manifestation, see here:
He also mentioned the Mutazili and Qadri belief of the non-literal interpretation of “hands” which would suggest hes going for a literal interpretation. Although Im not sure, which is why I asked him to explain specifically.
So what is the heel symbolic of?
Re: Ahadith from Bukhari
Brother ravage - I think you are confusing yourself a bit. Try to re-read what I had quotd from Imam Abu Hanifah (rahimullah). I have studied about Attributes of Allah (swt) from very renowned scholar here in London (for two years and as the subject is very vast and too delicate for me to put and explain in my words just over the Net within an hour or so.
Let me give three articles which will explain Attributes of Allah (swt) from Sunni point of view - I think sufi-leaning Sunnis may have slightly different view.
Insha’allah if I get the time tomorrow, I shall post some of the sayings of (Shia) Imams (ra) and you will be surprised that their views are similar to that of Imam Abu Hanifah and others (ra).
*Those qualities which Allaah Ta’ala attributes to Himself in the Qur’aan and Hadith, we believe in it and we hand over the reality of their meanings to Allaah Ta’ala. Allaah Ta’ala is All Hearing and All Seeing. However, His Listening and Seeing is not like our listening and seeing. In the same way His Hand and Feet is unlike our hands an feet.
The Ahle Haqq have not gone to the extreme like the Mu’tazilas on the one hand and the Mushabbihas on the other. We have taken the middle path. It is the belief of all the pious predecessors and the four Imaams of Fiqh.
Imaam Abu Hanifa (rahmatullah alaih) says: "When Allaah Ta’ala mentions in the Qur’aan about (His) Face, Hands, Soul, Eyes, thus they are His Qualities. It is not said that His Hand signifies His Power and Blessings, because indeed in it is negation of His Qualities, and this is the belief of the Qadarias and Mu ‘tazilas. But His Hand is His Quality without any form…’
This is also reported from Imaam Maalik, Imaam Shaafi and Imaam Hambal (rahmatullah alaihim) and the Aimmah of Hadith. It is extremely difficult for a weak, incapable human being who has limited speech and understanding to properly explain the Perfect and Excellent Qualities of Allaah Rabbul Izzat, Most High, Most Powerful, Most Mighty. We can say this much that from the possibilities, these Qualities are the best and highest possible. We establish them for Allaah Ta’ala.
And when we are faced with two words that have opposite meanings then we will use for Allaah Ta’ala the more appropriate one, which will be the better and higher of the two. If for example we have existent and non-existent, powerful and weak, knowledgeable and ignorant, etc., and other such opposing meaning words then we will use the higher of the two for Allaah Ta’ala, like Existent, Powerful, Knowledgeable, etc.
And we hold this belief that it is not possible for us to praise Him more than that. His Pure Being has no similarity. “There is nothing like Him and He is All Hearing All Seeing”:
And because we are not aware of the proper etiquettes for describing Devine Qualities therefore, we will use those words to describe the Greatness of Allaah which Rasulullaah (sAllaahu alaihi wasallam) had shown us.*
Re: Ahadith from Bukhari
Allah’s Attributes & the Mistake of Changing their Meanings
Ibn al-Qayyim once wrote that love for a beloved originates in the beauty and perfection of the beloved. Hence, by knowing and becoming familiar with Allah’s names, attributes and actions, one will love Him more and his iman (faith) will become stronger.
When Ibn Taymiyyah explained what the most precious and beneficial knowledge is, the first matter he mentioned was the knowledge of Allah’s Names, Attributes, and Actions, which plants in the heart the love, hope, fear and glorification of Him (Subhanahu wa ta’ala). No one would deny that knowing the One we worship improves our Ibadah (worship) and that not knowing who Allah is makes our Ibadah almost meaningless. Allah (SWT) said Himself: “So know that La ilaha ill-Allah (there is nothing worthy of worship but Allah)…” [47:19].
To understand Tawheed (i.e. the Oneness of Allah) correctly, we need to have an understanding of Allah’s Names and Attributes. The question is, how are we to understand them? Should we rely on our minds and speculative theology, or should we refer to the Qur’an, Sunnah and the understanding of the early predecessors? Many have strayed based on this point.
Some Muslims studied Tawheed and made their own minds as the judge and authority in understanding of Allah’s Names and Attributes. They confirmed what they thought appropriate, and rejected what they thought wrong. They subjected their worshipped Lord’s Names and Attributes to their own logic and understanding. This led to their believing in Attributes of Allah that are not the same as in the Qur’an.
Such people subjected the verses of the Qur’an and the Ahadeeth of the Prophet (SAWS) to their own minds, changing their meanings. They made their thoughts as the base and changed meanings of the Qur’an to accommodate their own minds. They ignored the most basic rule of Tawheed, that is, to shape our thoughts and minds to accommodate the text of the Qur’an and Sunnah, confirming what the text confirms and rejecting what it rejects. They shaped the text to accommodate their minds and thoughts. They made their minds as the god they worship. They fell in what they sought to escape from. They worshipped themselves, when they claimed immunity from error for their minds.
The scholars of Ahl-Sunnah wal Jamaah say that the correct Faith in Allah’s attributes means believing in them without denying them or their meanings (ta`teel), without interpreting them and changing their meanings (tahreef), without explaining how they are (takyeef) or likening Allah’s attributes to those of the creation (tamtheel). Although a few scholars had slightly differed on this point, it is known that the consensus of the predecessors and leaders of this Ummah is as stated above. There is an overwhelming amount of evidence in support of this.
Often, the best way to say what Islam is (or should be) is by pointing up its contradistinction to what Islam is not (or should not become). Therefore, if we study beliefs of the misguided sects, our understanding of the Truth will be improved, just like our understanding of Tawheed is greater when accompanied with an understanding of Shirk (polytheism).
We have been warned of the great sin of speaking about Allah that which we do not know. “Say (O Muhammad): ‘My Lord has only forbidden indecencies, those of them that are apparent as well as those that are concealed, and sin and rebellion without justice, and that you associate with Allah in worship that which He has sent down no authority, and that you say about Allah that which you do not know.’” [al-Qur’an 7:33]. So it is indeed a dangerous matter to explain an Attribute of Allah based on no proof from the Sources.
There is no doubt that all sects have deviated because they did not understand Usool ud-Deen (i.e. basic principles of the Islamic way of life). Ibn Taymiyyah said: “God may be characterized by how He characterizes Himself and by how His Prophet (Sallallahu alaihi wa sallam) characterized him. The course to be followed [in understanding this doctrine] is that of the predecessors, the people of faith and knowledge, and of the meanings understood from the Book and the Sunnah. Response [to revelation] ought not to confuse it for such would be a distortion, a disbelief, an abandonment of the Book…”
Imam at-Tahawi said in “al-Aqeedah at-Tahawiyyah”: “To imagine Allah in a certain form is not correct. The safest way for a Muslim is to believe in all the attributes of Allah without adding any interpretation. To negate the attributes of Allah altogether or to compare Him to someone, is a deviation from the right path. Our Lord is unique and without any equal at all.”
Imam al-Ashari refuted many deviant claims of those who commit tahreef or ta'teel. He wrote in "al-Ibanah an Usool ad-Diyanah" an arsenal of arguments against different heretics, and here is an example from this book, which represents the Aqeedah on which he finally settled: “Whosoever questions us and says, ‘Do you believe God has a face?’, the answer is: ‘We believe it contrarily to the belief of the innovators; and His words ‘And the Face of your Lord full of Majesty and Honor will abide forever…’ [55:27] are a proof of it.’”
He also stated: “If anybody says, ‘You do not deny that God’s words ‘from what Our hands have made’ and His words, ‘before him whom I have created with My two hands’ are metaphorical’, the answer is: The rule of the Word of God is that it is to be interpreted literally and truly, and a thing is not transferred from its literal meaning to a metaphorical one, except by proof. We therefore affirm these attributes of Allah (SWT) and realize that “There is nothing like unto Him” (42:11), that “There is none comparable to Him” (112:4) and that “No vision can grasp Him, but His Grasp is over all vision.” (6:103).”
Imam al-Juwayni, al-Ghazali’s teacher, also changed his view towards the end of his life and accepted the truth in this matter? He said in Ar-Rasa’il al-Munirah: "I used to fear confirming al-Istawa’a (rising over al-Arsh in a manner that suits Allah’s Majesty) and that Allah descends (if He will) to avoid limiting Allah, or assimilating Him (with the creation). However, when I read the evidence from the Book of Allah and the Sunnah of His Messenger (SAWS) I find that these evidences confirm these meanings (al-Istawa’a and descending).
I find that the Prophet (SAWS) unequivocally confirms them, when talking about His Lord and describing Him. I know for sure that his audience contained the knowledgeable and the ignorant, the smart and the slow and the Bedouin and the hard hearted. Yet, I find no quotations, clear or implied, from him, after describing Allah, that explain these meanings with what is not apparent, or what distorts these meanings as some of those philosophers did."
Interpreting Allah’s Attributes such as His Istawa’a, or His Face, has led people to deny them and to explain them in what suited their minds, based on no proof. If they only pondered over the words of Nua’im ibn Hammad, al-Bukhari’s teacher, who was quoted by ibn Katheer in his Tafseer: "Whoever assimilates Allah with His creation has committed kufr (disbelief).
Whoever denies Allah’s description of Himself has committed kufr. Assimilation to (the creation) cannot be understood from the description of Allah by Allah, or His Messenger (SAWS). Whoever confirms the Attributes, mentioned in the clear Aayat (verses of the Qur’an) and authentic Hadiths, believing that these Attributes are in a manner befitting to Allah’s Majesty, and denying all ill descriptions of Allah; he has followed the way of guidance."
Imam Ibn Katheer, in his tafseer of the verse 20:5, clearly stated that we should follow the understanding of the predecessors and not commit takyeef, tahreef, tashbeeh, ta`teel and tamtheel.
Imam Al-Barbahari said, “Whatever Allah says is just as He says. There is nothing to contradict what He says. He is as He says.” Allah (SWT) states in the Qur’an, “Whose word can be truer than Allah’s?” [4:122]
Ibn Taymiyyah said, "The early generations of Muslims and their Imams were in complete unanimous agreement that the Lord is separate and distinct from His creation. He is to be described only with that with which He described Himself (i.e. in the Qur’an) or with that which His Prophet (SAWS) described Him, without distorting, negating, delving into the exact nature of, or believing them to be the same as something known such as human characteristics of the same names.
Allah is described with all characteristics of perfection and no characteristics of weakness or imperfection . He knows that there is nothing comparable to Him, nor to His words in any of His characteristics of perfection."
Allah (SWT) says: “Say: He is Allah, One. Allah, The Self-Sufficient. He begets not, nor was He begotten. And there is none equal or comparable to Him.” [112:1-4]. Ibn Masood and others said: “He is the One Who has no cavity. The attribute of One (al-Ahad) means the One to Whom there is no one comparable. Thus, the name as-Samad entails all of Allah’s attributes of perfection, and negation of any lacks or imperfections…”
Re: Ahadith from Bukhari
The correct understanding of the Attributes of Allah
- According to the Book of Allah Most High, His Mesenger (saw) and the Righteous Predecessors (ra)
You should know O brothers and sisters that the path that the Taabi’een (2nd generation of Muslims) and those after them (3rd generation) - including al-Bukhaaree, Ahmad, Maalik, Shaafi’ee, Abu Hanifah, Abdullaah ibn al Mubaarak - and the rest of the Salaf - were upon was that: "Everything that has been reported in the Book of Allaah - the Mighty and Magnificent - of His Attributes, such as Face, Eyes, Hand, Istiwaa (Ascending over the Throne) and others besides them and likewise what the Messenger of Allaah (sallallaahu alaihi wasallam) has decribed Him with and which is established in the Authentic Prophetic Narrations such as the Descending and other such things - then all the Scholars of the Book and the Sunnah have faith in these Attributes and they affirm them for Allaah without ta’weel (interpolation of the intended meaning), tashbeeh (likening them to the creation) and ta’teel (denying them). And these are Attributes which befit Allaah in a way that they do not resemble the attributes of any of the creation due to His saying:
“And there is nothing like Him.” [Soorah Shoorah 42:11]
Do not let people confuse you and lead you to the denial of Allaah’s Attributes with the excuse of anthropomorphism, since everything that Allaah has described Himself with, then there is no anthropomorphism in that as Nu’aym bin Hammaad, (d.228H) - the teacher of Bukhaaree said: “Indeed, all that Allaah has described Himself with, or what His Messenger (saw) has described Him with, then there is no tashbeeh (likening them to the creation) in it at all.” Reported by Imaam adh-Dhahabee in al-Uluww (no.217)
So we affirm the narrations, affirm the Attributes and do not say "How?’ We affirm the meanings of the attributes - and this is what the Companions, the taabi’een and those upon their way were upon. TO AFFIRM THE MEANING and NOT TO QUESTION HOW?
Ibn Abdul Barr (d. 463H) said: “Ahl us-Sunnah are agreed in affirming all the Sifaat (Attributes) which are related in the Qur’aan and the Sunnah, having eemaan (faith) in them and understanding them alal-haqeeqah (in a real sense), not alal-majaaz (metaphorically).” At-Tamheed of Ibn Abdul-Barr (7/145)
Shaikh Abdul-Qaadir al-Jeelaanee (d. 561H) said: "It is essential to carry the attribute of Allaah al-Istiwaa (Allaah’s Ascending) upon its apparent sense - without ta’weel, and that He ascended by His Dhaat (self) over the Throne. Istiwaa does not mean sitting or touching - as the Mujassimah and Karraamiyyah say. Nor does it mean uluww (grandeur and highness) - as the Ash’ariyyah say; nor does it mean isteelaa (conquering and dominating over) - as the Mu’tazilah say. None of this is related in the Sharee’ah.
Neither has this been related by any one of the Salaf us-Saalih (Pious Predecessors) from the Sahaabah and the Taabi’een, nor from the Ashaabul-Hadeeth (Scholars of Hadeeth). Rather, it is related from them that they carried the meaning of Istiwaa with its apparent meaning." Al-Ghuniyat ut-Taalibeen (1/50) of Abdul Qaadir al-Jeelaanee.
Therefore, do not let people confuse you. The avoidance of anthropomorphism is something that every Muslim’s heart seeks and knows is correct - but you have to be careful not to be led to the other extreme and deny them. That will lead you upon a path other than that of those favoured with knowledge and guidance, the Salaf-us-Salih.
Those who say that affirming a hand, eyes, feet etc.. for Allah means antrhropomorphism, will lead you to believe that the way of the Salaf is that we do not affirm the meaning but we leave it to Allaah. But this is a lie against the Salaf of this ummah.
Rather, the way of the Salaf is that they affirmed the meaning, but never asked how? This is why the Salaf used to say: "We affirm Allah’s Attributes :
- without Ta’teel - denying the meaning
- without Tahreef - distorting the meaning
- without Tashbeeh - likening to the creation
- without Takyeef - asking how?"
Al-Khattaabee (d. 338H) said: “The position of the Salaf (the Pious Predecessors) with regard to the Sifaat (Attributes of Allaah) is to affirm them as they are alaa dhaahir (with their apparent meaning), negating any tashbeeh (resemblance) to them, nor takyeef (asking how they are).” Al-Ghuniyah an Kalaam wa Ahlihi - as quoted in Mukhtasir al-Uluww (no.137).
Imaam at-Tirmidhee (d. 279H) said: "It has been stated by more than one person from the People of Knowledge about such ahaadeeth, that there is no tashbeeh (resemblance) to the Attributes of Allaah, and our Lord - the Blessed and Most High - descends to the lowest heaven every night. So they say: “Affirm these narrations, have eemaan (faith) in them, do not deny them, nor ask how.” The likes of this has been related from Maalik ibn Anas, Sufyaan ath-Thawree, Ibn Uyainah and Abdullaah ibn al-Mubaarak, who all said about such ahaadeeth: “Leave them as they are, without asking how.”
Such is the saying of the People of Knowledge from the Ahl us-Sunnah wal-Jamaa’ah. However, the Jahmiyyah oppose these narrations and say: This is tashbeeh! However, Allaah the Most High, has mentioned in various places in His Book, the Attribute of al-Yad (Hand), as-Sama’ (Hearing), and al-Basr (Seeing) - but the Jahmiyyah make ta’weel of these aayaat, explaining them in a way, other than how they are explained by the People of Knowledge. They say: “Allaah did not create Aadam with His own Hand” - they say that Hand means the Power of Allaah." Sunan at-Tirmidhee (3/24)
Amongst the radical sects that have come forward to challenge the authority of the salaf in understanding the attributes of Allah, as mentioned above by Imam at-Tirmidhee, were the Jahmiyyah. The Jahmiyyah are the followers of Jahm bin Safan (d. 128-745), a radical heretic. Among other things, they deny that Allah, the Exalted, is above His Arsh, and they allege that He is everywhere. A recent english translation of a book of Shafii fiqh entitled: “Reliance of the Traveller” bears resemblance to this jahmiyyah belief.
It suffices to note, that the narrations of the scholars regarding the jahmiyyah are many:
**1. From Imaam Bukhaarees Khlaq Af’aalul Ibaad: **
Point no.6: Wahb bin Jareer said, ‘The Jahmiyyah are heretics, they think that He has not risen over His Throne.’
Point no.13: Ibn al-Mubaarak said, ‘we do nat say as the Jahmiyyah say that Allaah is on the earth, rather He has risen over His Throne.’
Point no.14: And it was said to him, ‘how should we know our Lord?’ He said, 'above the Heavens, over (‘alaa) His Throne’
Point no.64: Sadqa said, 'I heard Sulaiman at-Taimi saying, ‘if I were asked, “where is Allaah?” I would say, “above (fee) the heaven”. And if it said, “where was the Throne before the Heaven?” I would say, “over the water.” And if it is said, “where was the Throne before the water?” I would say, “I do not know.”’ And Imaam Bukhaaree said, ‘and that (i.e. his answer) was because of the saying of Allaah, “and they cannot encompass anything of His Knowledge except what He wills.” i.e. except what He explains.’
Point no.66: Muhammad bin Yusuf said (one of the teachers of Bukhaaree), 'the one who says that Allaah is not over (‘alaa) His Throne is a kaafir. And the one who thinks that Allaah did not speak to Moses is a kaafir.’
Point no.103: Ibn Mas’ud(ra) said about His saying, “then He rose over His Throne”, - ‘the Throne is over the water, and Allaah is above (fawqa) the Throne, and He knows what you are upon.’
**2. From Al-Lalikaa’ees Sharh Usool il-Itiqaad: **
Point no.660: Adullaah bin Abbaas (ra) said, ‘Verily Allaah was above His Throne before He created anything, then He created the creation and decreed what was to exist until the Day of Judgement.’ (pg.396)
Point no.662: Bashr bin Umar said, ‘I heard more then one of the Mufassir say about the verse, “The Most Merciful istawaa upon the Throne” - istiwaa means rose above.’ (pg.397)
Point no.665: Rabee’ (one of the teachers of Maalik) was asked about the verse, “The Most Merciful rose over His Throne” - ‘how did He rise?’ He replied, ‘al-istiwaa (rising) is known, and the how is not comprehensible, and from Allaah is the message, and upon the Messenger is the preaching, and upon us is believing.’ (pg.397)
Point no.670: Maqaatil bin Huyaan said about His saying, “and there is no secret discourse of 3 people except He is the fourth, or of 5 people and He is the sixth” - ‘He is above His Throne, and nothing is hidden from His knowledge.’ (pg.400)
Point no.673: Imaam Ahmad was asked, ‘Allaah is above the seventh heaven, above His Throne because that is from His creation, and His power and knowledge are in every place?’ And he replied, ‘yes, above the Throne and His knowledge is in every place.’ (pg.401)
Point no.675: Imaam Ahmad was asked about the verse, “and He is with you wheresover you are”, and the verse, “there is no secret discourse of 3 people except that he is the fourth..” - and he said, '(meaning) His Knowledge, He is the Knower of the seen and the unseen, His knowledge encompasses everything, and our Lord is above the Throne without setting limits and giving description, and His Kursi is as the expanse of the heavens and the earth with His Knowledge. ’ (pg.402)
- Imaam Abdullaah bin Ahmad also said, ‘…I bear witness that You are above Your Throne above the seven heavens. And this is not as the enemies of Allaah say, the heretics.’ (Sharhus Sunnah of Imaam Abdullaah). He also said, ‘we know that our Lord is above the seven heavens over the Throne, and we do not say as the Jahmiyyah say that he is here,’ and he pointed with his hand to the earth. (ibid.)
Know O brothers and sisters that those who deny Allaah’s Names and Attributes will accuse those who affirm them as being anthropomorphists. And this is because the sickness is in their hearts since when they hear the Attributes of Allaah their hearts cannot but analogise for them from the creation, so they are bewildered and disturbed. Therefore they deny them or interpolate them claiming that they are declaring Allaah greater. The anthropomorphism is in their hearts - not in following the way of the Salaf!!
Ibn Abil-Izz (d. 792H), the explainer of Aqeedatut-Tahaawiyyah, said: "Ishaaq bin Raahawaiyah (d. 238H), the teacher of Imaam Bukhaaree, said: A distinguishing sign of Jahm and his associates is their claim that Ahl us-Sunnah wal-Jamaa’ah - and how fond they * are of lying - that they are Mushabbihah (Anthropomorphists), and similarly, many of the Scholars of the Salaf have said: “There is no one who denies anything from the Names and Attributes except that he calls the one who affirms them a Mushabbih (Anthropomorphist).” Sharh Aqeedatit-Tahaawiyyah (p.118).
Imaam Abu Haatim ar-Raazee (d. 277H) said: “A sign of the Jahmiyyah is that they call the Ahl us-Sunnah “Mushabbihah” (Anthropomorphists).” Ahl us-Sunnah of Abu Haatim ar-Raazee (p.21-22) and Sharh Usool ul-I^Rtiqaad (no.92).
And Abu Uthmaan as-Saaboonee (d. 449H) stated - about the distinguishing signs of Ahl ul-Bidah: “naming them * with Hashawiyyah (Worthless People), Jahalah (the Ignorant), Dhaahiriyyah (Literalists) and Mushabbihah (Anthropomorphists)”. Aqeedatus-Salaf wa Ashaabul Hadeeth (p.101)
As Imaam al-Juwaynee (d. 438H) said: “And Allaah expanded my chest about the state of those Shaikhs who made ta’weel of al-Istiwaa to ‘isteelaa’ and it is my belief that they do not understand the Attributes of the Lord - the Most High - except with what befits the creation. Thus they do not understand al-Istiwaa of Allaah as it truly befits Him so this is why they distort the words from its proper context and deny what Allaah has described Himself with. And we shall mention the explanation of that if Allaah wills.” Risaalah Ithbaatul-Istiwaa wal-Fawqiyyah (p.176-183) Imaam al-Juwaynee was a former Ash’aree who retracted from the Ash’aree madhhab and followed the path of the Salaf. May Allah have mercy on him.
Abu Hasan al-Ash’aree (d. 324H) - said: "If it is said: Why do you deny that His saying: “Do they not see that We have created for them what Our Own Hands have created.” [Soorah Yaa Seen 36:71]
And His saying: “Whom I have created with My Own Hands”. [Soorah Sa’d 38:75]
..are mejaaz (metaphorical)? To him it is said: The ruling concerning the speech of Allaah - the Mighty and Majestic - is that it is taken upon its dhaahir (apparent) and haqeeqah (real) meaning. Nothing is removed from its dhaahir (apparent) meaning to majaaz (metaphorical) one, except with a proof Likewise, the saying of Allaah, the Mighty and Majestic: “Whom I have created with My Own Hands”. [Soorah Sa’d 38:75]
Its dhaahir and haqeeqah meaning is affirming Yadain (two Hands of Allaah). So it is not permissible to alter it from the dhaahir meaning of Yadain to that which our opponents claim, except with a proof Consequently, about His saying:
“Whom I have created with My Own Hands.” [Soorah Sa’d 38:75]
It is obligatory to affirm two Hands for Allaah - the Most High - in its haqeeqah (real) meaning, not with the meaning of ni’matayn (two bounties of Allaah)." Al-Ibaanah an Usool id-Diyaanah (p.133).
Thus knowing all this, and the position of the real scholars of Ahlus-Sunnah wal-Jamah, it is imperitive to follow the truth. Indeed there will be people who will call one who holds on to this path : “mushabbih”. To them we say: Alee bin al-Madeenee - the teacher of al-Bukhaaree said: “When someone says so and so is a mushabbih (anthropomorphist) - we know that he is a Jahmee.” [Usool ul-I’tiqaad]. And about the jamhiyyah, the ruling of the Imam of Ahmad ibn Hanbal is that he said: “The Jahmiyyah are disbelievers”.
Imam Ahmad (rahimullah) when asked to explain about Allah’s attributes in the Quran said the following: “We believe in them and consider them true, without ‘how’ and without ‘meaning’ (bi la kayfa wa la ma‘na).”
Brother ravage - We seem to have completely hijacked Curious one’s thread - way off what he intended 
[And please do not confuse the word Salaf with Salafis]
Brother Lajawab - Please read the links that I have given.**
Re: Ahadith from Bukhari
heheh yeah i hope the thread is split :)
Anyway, Sadique bhai, I read your articles thoroughly and they're filled with contradictions. i dont even know how to begin with them. This is only a start:
Those qualities which Allaah Ta’ala attributes to Himself in the Qur'aan and Hadith, we believe in it and we hand over the reality of their meanings to Allaah Ta'ala.
Those who say that affirming a hand, eyes, feet etc.. for Allah means antrhropomorphism, will lead you to believe that the way of the Salaf is that we do not affirm the meaning but we leave it to Allaah. But this is a lie against the Salaf of this ummah.
So what did the salaf really say?
Imam al-Juwayni, al-Ghazali's teacher, also changed his view towards the end of his life and accepted the truth in this matter? He said in Ar-Rasa'il al-Munirah: "I used to fear confirming al-Istawa'a (rising over al-Arsh in a manner that suits Allah's Majesty) and that Allah descends (if He will) to avoid limiting Allah, or assimilating Him (with the creation). ** .....However,** when I read the evidence from the Book of Allah and the Sunnah of His Messenger (SAWS) I find that these evidences confirm these meanings (al-Istawa'a and descending). Me: I found myself wondering why only these two in explanatory brackets and not assimilating, the answer follows shortly...)
If they only pondered over the words of Nua'im ibn Hammad, al-Bukhari's teacher, who was quoted by ibn Katheer in his Tafseer: "Whoever assimilates Allah with His creation has committed kufr (disbelief).
Shaikh Abdul-Qaadir al-Jeelaanee (d. 561H) said: "It is essential to carry the attribute of Allaah al-Istiwaa (Allaah's Ascending) upon its apparent sense - without ta'weel, and that He ascended by His Dhaat (self) over the Throne. Istiwaa does not mean sitting or touching - as the Mujassimah and Karraamiyyah
Neither has this been related by any one of the Salaf us-Saalih (Pious Predecessors) from the Sahaabah and the Taabi'een, nor from the Ashaabul-Hadeeth (Scholars of Hadeeth). Rather, it is related from them that they carried the meaning of Istiwaa with its apparent meaning." Al-Ghuniyat ut-Taalibeen (1/50) of Abdul Qaadir al-Jeelaanee.
The third article goes on a lot about the distinction between "apparent meaning" and anthropomorphism. Can you tell me what is the difference between the position of these folks versus the "Mujassimah" (probably taken from Jism) who probably ascribe the literal/apparent meaning of the word to Allah?
How is it possible to take the "apparent meaning" and NOT see a hand, the ONLY apparent meaning of which is anthropomorphic? It is a contradiction in terms, you say you want to be literal but dont want to liken to the literal. here is my challenge to you: can you come up with any "apperent meaning" for Hand where Hand is not anthropomorphic / likened to Creation? What other "apparent meaning" does Hand or Face or Eyes have for you?
And if you neither give it the "hand" Hand meaning nor a figurative meaning, then you are ascribing it NO meaning (beyond saying there "is" mention of a hand, which nobody is debating anyway..) which contradicts the third article arguing for the "apparent meaning".
Furthermore the third link seems to be from a different school than the other two, since the second quotes Ashari clerics, whereas the third quotes..
Nor does it mean uluww (grandeur and highness) - as the Ash'ariyyah say;
As I understand it most Sunnies today are Ashari sunnies, which suggests that Lajawb's view is correct, a figurative interpretation of "Hand".
The first and second articles both seem to advocate ascribing no meaning, merely believing the "attributes" exist. Believing in the text and the existence of attributes but deferring meaning to Allah and avoiding conjecture/interpretation (How can you avoid interpretation unless something is completely meaningless? Every reality that you think is an interpretation. Your essentially saying "Dont think about it!"). The third says not ascribing meaning and deferring it to Allah is "against the salaf" and believes in a literal meaning, while somehow also disawoving simile to Creation / anthropomorphism. I leave it to you to explain to me what apparent meaning a Hand has that is not mentally likened to the one on your keyboard.
Re: Ahadith from Bukhari
:hinna: the same old leg-pulling circus continues!