Re: Ahadeeth: Accept or Reject
Nice start of a discussion. As Bro Sher mentioned the Muwatta of Imam Malik was the first Hadith book, he I think lived within the first century after the Prophet SAW demise. However the Muwatta had many many revisions because it was more like a tafsir than a record book of Ahadith as as I know.
Re: Ahadeeth: Accept or Reject
Hadiths cant be ignored.. the importance of them is shown in the hadith about the Prophet Muhammad’s :saw: character being like the Quran.
The Quran tells us to pray 5 times a day, the hadiths tell us how to pray.
With the whole thing about hadeeths not being authentic and all, loads of scholars have made volumes of books available to us known as the saheeh sitah.
There are alot of verses that talk about obeying the Messenger, and the importance of following him;
“Obey Allah and obey the Messenger.” [An-Nisa 59]
“and accept whatever the Noble Messenger gives you; and refrain from whatever he forbids you; and fear Allah; indeed Allah’s punishment is severe.” [Al-Hashr: 7]
“And We have sent down unto thee the Message that thou mayest explain clearly to men what is sent for them.”[An-Nahl: 44]
“If any one contends with the Prophet even after guidance has been plainly conveyed to him, and follows a path other than that becoming to men of faith, We shall leave him in the path he has chosen and land him in Hell, what an evil refuge.” [An-Nisa: 110]
and alot more aayah.
Re: Ahadeeth: Accept or Reject
Let us look at the explanation below, makes an argument more knowledgeable
*The phrase “saheeh hadeeth” may refer to one of two things: *
In general terms it includes those which are mutawaatir (narrated from so many by so many in each stage of transmission that it is inconceivable that they could all have agreed upon a lie), saheeh li dhaatihi (sound in and of itself), saheeh li ghayrihi (sound because of corroborating evidence) and hasan (good).
Re: Ahadeeth: Accept or Reject
"Verily, We have sent down the Reminder, and surely, We will guard it (from corruption)" [Al-Qur'an, Surah al-Hijr, 15:9].
The above promise made by Allah is obviously fulfilled . However, what is often forgotten by many Muslims is that the above divine promise also includes, by necessity, the Sunnah of the Prophet Muhammad (May Allaah bless him and grant him peace), for it is the practical example of the implementation of the Qur'anic guidance, the Wisdom taught to the Prophet (May Allah bless him and grant him peace) along with the Scripture, and neither the Qur'an nor the Sunnah can be understood correctly without recourse to the other.
Allah preserved the Sunnah by enabling the Companions and those after them (may Allah be pleased with them) to memorize, write down and pass on the statements of the Messenger (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) and the descriptions of his Way,(this is the basic point we were arguing on by the way let me tell you Ubay ibn Kaab one of the first ones to memorize the Quran, he had to stand on the house terrace because, scores of people who wanted to listen to the Prophetic tradition, as he was amongst the best of narrators due to his memory)
Later, as the purity of the knowledge of the Sunnah became threatened, Allah caused the Muslim nation to produce outstanding individuals of incredible memory-skills and analytical expertise, **who journeyed tirelessly to collect hundreds of thousands of narrations and distinguish the true words of precious wisdom of their Messenger **(may Allah bless him and grant him peace) from those corrupted by weak memories, from forgeries by unscrupulous liars, and from the statements of the enormous number of 'Ulama', the Companions and those who followed their way, who had taught in various centers of learning and helped to transmit the legacy of Muhammad (may Allah bless him and grant him peace) - all of this achieved through precise attention to the words narrated and detailed familiarity with the biographies of the thousands of reporters of Hadith. Action being the best way to preserve teachings, the renewers of Islam also revived the practice of the blessed authentic Sunnah.
Re: Ahadeeth: Accept or Reject
Brother, read your answers once more, and you will note that you are answering just for sake of it.
people mention the example of way to pray in order to support importance of hadees, can you tell me why all sects have different way to pray?
where to tie hands (even tie at all or not), Aamin should be bil-jahr or Khafi, how wide should be feet, how high should be pajama, qirat or no qirat khalf e imam, rafa e yadain or no rafa. is this a recepie of unity?
we need to accept that collection of ahadees are collected with sectarianism in mind, thats why we see 72+ sects around us today.
rest of your answers are not related to my points.
Re: Ahadeeth: Accept or Reject
[QUOTE]
1. For Answer#1, It isn't mess up. Although you may call it tightening up of acceptibility standard
[/QUOTE]
Well thats absurdest of criteria i have eve come across.
From a shiite point of view, i know that they would site any Hadith that favors their point of view, written by a Sunni, even if sunis have mentioned that Hadith is fabricated. They wud also site Ahadeeth that go against their own beleifs and doctrines just to prove a point.
The existing criteria of #not going against Quran #of examining the integrity/truthfulness of narrators #of evidence of direct connection between the narrators
are the best available, short of Allah himself telling us which one is correct and which not.
Re: Ahadeeth: Accept or Reject
Good topic.
I have always had this question in my mind.
Why have the Ahadeeth of Bukhari and Muslim been accepted all as to be totally true, i mean all of the Ahadeeth.
No doubt that they were the best of Hadeeth scholars, they too might have made handful of mistakes.
Re: Ahadeeth: Accept or Reject
well, read my point again befoe typing dozen of lines.
I reword it as “most reliable ahadees can be only on which both shia and sunnies agree”.
i m sure there are thousands of such ahadees.
all your typing is due to incomplete understanding of my point.
Re: Ahadeeth: Accept or Reject
one of the 5 requirements for a hadith to be classified as sahih, is that, it shouldn't contradict a stronger evidence, which is Quran of course.
In case it does the hadith gets discarded from the Sahih-Hasan category, and is no longer used for deriving any rulings related to Shariah or anything else.
Re: Ahadeeth: Accept or Reject
There are hundreds of different kinds of weak hadith. A hadith is classified as weak, if the chain of narration is doubtful. They fall into that grey area, where the scholars were unsure if the Hadith is really authentic, since the people in the chain of narration are corrupt.
Re: Ahadeeth: Accept or Reject
people mention the example of way to pray in order to support importance of hadees, can you tell me why all sects have different way to pray? where to tie hands (even tie at all or not), Aamin should be bil-jahr or Khafi, how wide should be feet, how high should be pajama, qirat or no qirat khalf e imam, rafa e yadain or no rafa. is this a recepie of unity? we need to accept that collection of ahadees are collected with sectarianism in mind, thats why we see 72+ sects around us today.
rest of your answers are not related to my points.
Your understanding is even more messed than what I initially thought. Who said that only the sunni/shia hadith are the correct ones?
Arabs had this tradition of memorizing things, the western society today goes to great lengths to show that passing information orally does not work which is wrong because we know it did work in the case of the muslims.
Ahadith are short, concise, to the point and that's why they were easy to memorize.
Which books of hadith did Umar radiAllahuanhu burn? (I've never heard this, I think you are confusing Umar with Uthman radiAllahuanhuma, and he burned copies of the Quran)
With regards to differences in prayer, you are bringing up issues of fiqh. With fiqh, even the sahaba had differences of opinion on different matters. There's the hadith about when a group was told to not pray Asr until they get to Banu Quraidah, and this instruction was interpreted in two different ways. And Muhammad salAllahualaihiwasallam approved both opinions. Meaning difference of opinion is allowed, where it is justified.
The hadith about the 73 sects of muslims means that we will break up into different sects and make the same mistakes that were made by the Jews and Christians. This is why the Quran has so many stories of Bani Israel, so that we don't make the same mistakes that they made.
And different ways of prayer does not mean different sect.
By the way, the hadith about 73 sects, is it accepted by shias also?
Besides, you said that the collectors of hadith were loyal to the government, my other points were proving that this claim of yours is incorrect. So many Ulama were jailed by the rulers of their time, because they weren't loyal to the government.
Re: Ahadeeth: Accept or Reject
What was the criteria adopted by Muhaddith, the process involved.
*If I could get an answer from the Methods of Sunni and Shia Scholars, would be of great help.
*
Only the steps involved for the Hadeeth to be rated as Sahih, Hasan and Daeef.
Re: Ahadeeth: Accept or Reject
question
statement 1 is true, we know it, its a fact.
statement 2 does not oppose statement 1and is provided by several people who we think are reliable.
does that guarantee that statement 2 is accurate? or does that mean that it is building on statemnt 1, but the additional information that it is providing may or may not be true.
Re: Ahadeeth: Accept or Reject
statement 1 is true, we know it, its a fact. statement 2 does not oppose statement 1and is provided by several people who we think are reliable.
does that guarantee that statement 2 is accurate? or does that mean that it is building on statemnt 1, but the additional information that it is providing may or may not be true.
The additional information should be based on another statement belonging to the super set of Statement 1. And we should know that the super set is true and factual collection of statements.