[quote]
Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT:
** He was born an Ismaili and was a close friend of the Aga Khan, but following the death of Jinnah's first wife, he converted. Which fiqh he converted to ....
**
[/quote]
Could you please post your sources for the above info?
[quote]
Originally posted by kabir:
well here in india they are one of the most prosporous communities but i dont think they qualify to be called muslims
[/quote]
Well done people. We have just shown once again why we Muslims are not as prosperous as we should be. Labelling other Muslims as non-Muslims and so on and so forth. Keep it up and the enemies of Islam will not need to be against us. Why should they when we are against each other
Pappu yaar tung na kar
mehfil ko berang na kar
[quote]
Originally posted by Sadiaa:
**
I also have a question somewhat related to this topic. What's the difference b/w Ahmedis and Qadiyanis? or are they the same?
**
[/quote]
Yes its one and the same thing. Its only that we call ourselves ahmadi while the non-ahmadis call us qadiani or mirzai. I could be called a multani for that sake, but not qadiani, i've never been there all my life nor do i have any roots there.
Read a whole bunch in the past, but those websites are down.
However, here is an article that states that Jinnah was born an Ismaili and later severed ties with that sect.
Here is a source that says that Jinnah was born an Ismaili and later became Sunni.
This site, to which Ibrahim linked earlier, says that Jinnah was born an Ismaili and later became an Ithna Ashari (fiqh Jafria) muslim.
And to those who accuse me of calling the Ismailis non-muslims, I do not believe that I have stated such in this thread. All I have said is that I am somewhat sympathetic to those who would accuse them of such; however, without a majority consensus amongst the Ulema I cannot say so. In public and in private, I still consider the Ismailis to be Muslims; after all, they believe that there is no God but Allah and they believe that Mohammed (SAWS) is his last Prophet.
[This message has been edited by mAd_ScIeNtIsT (edited February 12, 2002).]
[quote]
Originally posted by mAd_ScIeNtIsT:
**
And to those who accuse me of calling the Ismailis non-muslims, I do not believe that I have stated such in this thread. All I have said is that I am somewhat sympathetic to those who would accuse them of such; however, without a majority consensus amongst the Ulema I cannot say so. In public and in private, I still consider the Ismailis to be Muslims; after all, they believe that there is no God but Allah and they believe that Mohammed (SAWS) is his last Prophet.
**
[/quote]
Just listen to yourself. So you are symphatetic towards the view that they are non-Muslims but then you consider them Muslims but if majority of the Mullahs say otherwise u will consider them non-Muslims. What a load of bull. Thats so hyprocratic. Can we stop this thread. All you guys have done is call other Muslims non-Muslims.
Do u know how much hatred this can cause. isn't it enuff that we Muslim Pakistanis have killed other Pakistani Muslims because of the stupid label we gave them of "Kafirs and non-Muslims"? Kab seekho gai. Demagh diya hai Allah ne, Istimaal karo
Pappu yaar tung na kar
mehfil ko berang na kar
[quote]
Originally posted by Farishta:
** Just listen to yourself. So you are symphatetic towards the view that they are non-Muslims but then you consider them Muslims but if majority of the Mullahs say otherwise u will consider them non-Muslims. What a load of bull. Thats so hyprocratic. Can we stop this thread. All you guys have done is call other Muslims non-Muslims.
Do u know how much hatred this can cause. isn't it enuff that we Muslim Pakistanis have killed other Pakistani Muslims because of the stupid label we gave them of "Kafirs and non-Muslims"? Kab seekho gai. Demagh diya hai Allah ne, Istimaal karo
**
[/quote]
Not a load of hypocracy. My point is that my knowledge of Islam is not such that I can declare someone to be Muslim or non-Muslim. In such an important matter, I can only follow the ruling of the majority of the ulema. Unless the majority of the scholars declare a sect to be non-muslim, I cannot beleive it myself.
Hence despite my suspicions, I do openly call my Ismaili friends Muslims.
I have a solution. Those religions or sects who say "we r not muslims" can be called non-muslims . The others who believe in Allah, say the Kalma, belive in Quran and believe that Prophet Mohammad is the last prophet and say that they are Muslims be referred to as Muslims.
Doesn't this seem simple and logical. The logic you are giving is not useful. Why blame the Taliban then. They destroyed the Buddhist idols because the Afghani Ulema said they were un-islamic. USE YOUR BRAIN PEOPLE
Pappu yaar tung na kar
mehfil ko berang na kar
Dear Firashta,
Good words but it won't work. Won't you be surprised if this dog pooh purveyer turns out to be a shia jaferi?
Mad,
I believe I told you earlier that the ismailis wouldn't give two bits what you or your ulemas think of them! The message, apparently did not sink in.
If hurling insult wasn't enough, you go ahead and call yourself - 'a friend of the ismailis'. Geez! is this what the yazids & the mauwiyas said after their dastardly deeds?
[quote]
Originally posted by logical:
If hurling insult wasn't enough, you go ahead and call yourself - 'a friend of the ismailis'. Geez! is this what the yazids & the mauwiyas said after their dastardly deeds?
[/quote]
Not really. My point is that a number of my personal friends, including my best friend through my last 5 years of school and who I still chill with are Ismailis - and I always refer to these friends of mine of Muslims.
[quote]
per Mad,
I think the point is lost on you. If you are a jafari then the sunni-wahabi would love someone like like you. You are like an Uncle Tom to them.
Tell me, what did the Yazids & Mauwiyyas say to the shias after their dastardly deed?
They talked the same talk that you are talking! Keep it up!
[quote]
Originally posted by logical:
** I think the point is lost on you. If you are a jafari then the sunni-wahabi would love someone like like you. You are like an Uncle Tom to them.
Tell me, what did the Yazids & Mauwiyyas say to the shias after their dastardly deed?
**
[/quote]
Errr.... yes, I'm am in fact having problems following you train of thought; I'm not quite sure what you're trying to say.
Incidentally, unless my history is off, the dastardly deed of which you speak was done by Yazid and not Muawiyya.