The notion of life after death , and this life being just a phase, relatively unimportant one, is part of the core of Islamic philosophy.(and of course of other major religions too)
Is it really needed, Is there anyone who hasnt reaped rewards for good deeds in this life , or hasnt suffered the consequences of Bad ones…
Leave it to NOVA to take us on an odyssey. Where no one has gone before. Uncharted waters and totally foreign territory.
NOVA, when you die, your physical being gets either burned, or eaten by insects. Spiritual is another matter. All concepts of afterlife are imaginary. Perhaps (to me) afterlife is a metaphor for one’s “memories” being alive among those left behind. E.g., Gandhi’s deeds are still fresh is many people’s minds.
In terms of "do we need this concept", I would say that there is no need for that.
although...if afterlife is just people's memories of you and nothing else, then do your actions even matter. I mean Gandhi and Hitler were both assasinated. Hitler gets cursed out by the world except neonazis, Gandhi is admired...
but if that is afterlife...people's memory of one. Then unless the actions have consequences in this life....afterlife by your logic is inconsequential. Therefore whether I am Mother Teresa, hakeem Mohammad saeed, Hitler or Jeffrey dahmer..all is kewl.
No Fraud, all is not cool. Actions do matter, but only in this life. I don’t think that those who die in sorrowful circumstances are any different than those who die under normal ones. “payback” and “afterlife” even though related are two different concepts. This concept of “afterlife” has existed before even there were religions or beliefs systems (as we have come to know them). (ancient burial grounds with artifacts buried with the dead are an example of such beliefs). It is more of a metaphor and since there can never be any proof of such a belief, so I am a bit reluctant to take this concept seriously.
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Originally posted by NYAhmadi:
** .... It is more of a metaphor and since there can never be any proof of such a belief, so I am a bit reluctant to take this concept seriously.**
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But is not belief based on faith, a faith in that which is not readily apparent? Therefore, it is not a matter of metaphor, but of faith.
Nova, in my opinion--Yes it is really needed. If all people thought that there would be no life after death, life would not be as it is now. I mean there would be no restraint or control in what we would do. Life in this world would become meaningless if good actions were not rewarded and bad conduct not punished. If actions only mattered in this life, what would be the purpose of living, "To live, to have so much ambition, to suffer, to cry, to fight and, at the end, forgetfulness...as if I had never existed."[Marie Bashkirtsev]. Belief in the Akhirah, not only gives one purpose and direction in life, keeps one's sense of perspective. By perspective I mean that for those who believe in the afterlife, the clear reality of the future Life is always before the mind and conscience. This perspective is the awareness which keeps this earthly life, in the midst of both intense happiness and deepest pain, in perspective. It maintains a sense of balance, stability, and morality.
Good reply girl...:)
Nova, when a child does a good deed we do reward him....a toffee, a toy etc etc...and when he does something bad, we do punish him...don't we...???
same thing applies here...Allah created men and made them responsible for their deeds...he clearly told us in Quran that this life time of ours is not the final chapter of our existence. it is just a trial period. And after we die we r brought back to life and then we will be rewarded for our good deeds and punished for the bad ones...
Now think if there is no resurrection, no life after death in which men r rewarded/punished for their good/bad deeds, there wud be no justice, and creation of men and sending of prophets to them wud be to no purpose at all.
in sura-e muminun Allah says,
"What! does man reckon he shall be left to roam at will! What! did you think that we created you only for sport and that you would not be returned to Us?"
does this quote from Quran make sense to u???
The keyword here is "belief" again:)
if u do believe in Allah, Quran and Rasool only then can this afterlife thing will make sense to u.
aur Ahmadi saab,
"Does man reckon We shall not gather his bones! Nay, but man desires to continue on as a libertine, asking, 'When shall be the Day of Resurrection!" [Qiyama, LXXV: 3-6]
:)
Ciao
And i hope u know that it is a part of basic islamic beliefs and wid out believing in it one can not claim to be a muslim.
You guys have convinced me..I am wrong , you are right.....:)
My point was,
We shape our future by what we do today...and that consequence is justice enuff....
This life is a learning experience, we start it at vastly different starting points...Both in individual capacities and circunstances around us that shape our behaviour..As we go on , we gather more information and retest our hypothesies time and agin , and correct ourselves in teh process...
Girl..
When you say God teaches us appropriate behaviours using a stick and a carrot , You are assuming some very basic things..First being that God is doing it for Herself....Does she have a right to do that..
DO I OWE ANYHTHING TO HER>>>>>Give me one good reason if you think I do.
And if God makes rules only for our benefit, then there is no need for teh stick....
Naik,,,
Phir vohee bachooN walle baat....
Unn koo islam kai lutt janai ka daar itna hai ,,,,,,
abb voh kafir koo musulmaan nahein karnai daitai..
Islam is sachaii...right you believe that....Who knows who is closer to it..Itnai aaraam sai logoN pai kufr ka fatwa maat lagiyay...Ghereeb aadmi kee ghurbaat ka hee pass rakhyay
Astaghfirullah!!!!
who am i to give "kufr ka fatwa"....
i just told u a basic thing about islam and i think u know that already:)
but hey there is no harm in reminding....;-)
ciao
Naiko you did. Don’t be lying now. Could you produce some Hadith that one must believe in Afterlife to be considered a Muslim? I don’t think this is among the 5 Pillars of Islam. By your definition, there must be some 672 pillars. Innovation in Mazhab is a Gunah, and you are guilty.
to me, the concept of afterlife is not a very convincing one. i find it disagreeable simply because it hasnt been made obvious to normal human beings. why should a person believe in it? why would God want us to have blind faith? how can he encourage knowledge and freedom of thought on one hand, and prescribe blind faith in him and his ways on the other?
If God indeed exists, and is just, he would not judge people for faith in him or his ways. simply because he hasnt made it as clear as would be necessary to make us believe in them. i believe in a tomato, i believe in dreams, but afterlife? why should i? why should i submit to blind faith?
another reason why i find afterlife/heaven/hell not worth believing in is, God expects purity of thought and not just good deeds. One may be bullied into falling in line with the threats of hell and afterlife and bribes of heaven, but then, you become nothing but a mercenery. if one leads a good life, it should be out of conviction for being good; not because you want to enjoy your afterlife - that's absolutely vulgar.
Ther are many questions which come to mind for example what is punishment then, what are the rewards.And the most important one is how come we know if he is rewarded or punished for his deeds.
Till now its we who send people to hell and haven, based on our judgement, don't we.
queer
I am in agreement that any action must have the purity of thought and not just for a reward.
On the second part though things start getting a bit murky again. what is good and what is bad, why is what we consider good..good, and why is what we consider bad..bad.
who came up with the whole idea of good or bad. whats right and whats wrong...
so similarly, I can say my concept of good is different....and thus i could be doing something that society loathes or considers taboo or evil, but as far as I am concerned it is good and I am doing it with the purity of heart. It gets murkier..
I mean I can be a complete utilitarian and solve socueties issues in a very utilitarian way...too many homeless ppl..hmmmm okay lets kill them, they are not suffering anymore..city looks better, more services available for the homeless that are still around etc.
To me this is a very interesting discussion.
Just like we dont have proof of afterlife if we dont consider any of the relgions' teachings about it, we dont really have proof that whats wrong is wrong and whats right is right. It is just something that mankind has come up with ...morals, ethics, principles....nothing means anything.
NaikLarki,
I was visiting the thread:HELP ! NEED INFO!! where I read you saying, that you do not know what “SHIRK” means in sort of subtle reference to the Shias invoking their Imam; and that you had no idea what ‘Firqa’ of Islam you belong to!
But here you are quoting Sura Muminum and Qiyama, from the Quran! I find that very interesting!
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/wink.gif
May I ask which anti-shia web site you picked that info re: Shirk !
ummmm lets not get into the sects business here and let this discussion continue as it is. its not about any specific religion or sect here but about idea of afterlife and why it makes sense or not. so please let it be. thanks
Pir Shahib,
BTW- Hitler was not assasinated; He blew his head off because his worst nightmare was closing in on him! Thought, you could use the clarification; ya'ar!!
Ahmadi Saab, i have not given any kufar ka fatwa yet:)Coz i haven't heard Nova saying that he doesn't believe in afterlife or God:)
now back to ur question...i have not said or claimed that its among five pillars of islam.
its among the pillars of faith/iman/the basic aqeedha of islam:)
the first step is Al-iman(basic aqeedah) and 2nd step is pillars of islam:)
and for ur general knowledge Iman is to believe in Allah, his Angels, his Books, his Messengers/prophets, Judgment day/ressurection/after life and his determination of human destiny.
Logical i am a muslimah...that is for sure...what firqa i belong to....i really don't know.....no kidding...
wesay i believe in Quran and hadith....what do u think what firqa is that????
[This message has been edited by NaikLarki (edited June 08, 2000).]
logical, unnatural..forced death
http://www3.pak.org/gupshup/smile.gif
in both cases, thats better
thanks for the correction.