Afghan tied up Pakistani Pushtoons before murdering them in cold blood

[tmx305]

Re: Afghan tied up Pakistani Pushtoons before murdering them in cold blood

@parissenoor

people doing low jobs at immorally low wage;)

Well, I wont say imorally low wages, or they wouldnt pay that. We have some servants (all of them from NWFP) at our house too, and we pay them well, and they are like family now so I wouldnt say that, maybe the concept seems odd to people from outside of Pakistan but trust me, it isnt.

[parissenoor]

Re: Afghan tied up Pakistani Pushtoons before murdering them in cold blood

@tmx305

Well, I wont say imorally low wages, or they wouldnt pay that. We have some servants (all of them from NWFP) at our house too, and we pay them well, and they are like family now so I wouldnt say that, maybe the concept seems odd to people from outside of Pakistan but trust me, it isnt.

lol...don't you know we used t have servants in europe too...when minimum wage was not in force....lol...if the pay would be decent... most people would not be able to afford servants...it is basic arthmic calculus...i'm sure you know how to multiply and divide...so if the differnce btw the salary of middle class people annd servants is reduced...and that is what is called being "decent"..then it becomes almost impossible for middel class people to have full time, or even half time servants;)

[tmx305]

Re: Afghan tied up Pakistani Pushtoons before murdering them in cold blood

paris, you do probably understand the bonds that develop in Pakistan are different, my great grandfather, when he passed away was extremely rich, but before he passed away, he divided his assets into 5, rather than 3, as he had two servents who he treated like sons, and gave them equal share in whatever wealth he accumulated. Someone in Europe or N. America woudl never do that, its different. They may be given lower wages, but thats how it is in Pakistan. Engineers in Pakistan make 1/10th of what they make in Europe and N. America, that doesnt mean they are poor hand to mouth people, its just that the living standards and expenditures are different here.

[Iconoclast]

Re: Afghan tied up Pakistani Pushtoons before murdering them in cold blood

^And then what happened later?

[ItzMe_77]

Re: Afghan tied up Pakistani Pushtoons before murdering them in cold blood

this may sound kinnda queer, but i have like 2 afghan freinds, naqib, and i cant mesion the other 1 cuz he doesnt want to be mentioned. I think they’re pretty nice guys u know once u g3t 2 no 'em.

[tmx305]

Re: Afghan tied up Pakistani Pushtoons before murdering them in cold blood

@Iconoclast

^And then what happened later?

Nothing, they are still running their businesses, making alot of money, and have their own families etc. I was proving to Parisgal here that we dont treat our servents life slaves, liek she was implying.

[syedpk]

Re: Afghan tied up Pakistani Pushtoons before murdering them in cold blood

@tmx305

Nothing, they are still running their businesses, making alot of money, and have their own families etc. I was proving to Parisgal here that we dont treat our servents life slaves, liek she was implying.

I think there are few exceptions here and there like your family.But the fact in punjab we still have this “kami” and “kami kameen” system.I know many family friends who live in rural punjab and they all know that women are marched naked in the streets two three years back a newspaper published a story about this practice in multan.or the chaudhary sab ordering the mazara(farmer) to throw his in bhaatta(kiln)

The names might change in other provinces but not the attitude.In sindh a wadera sain can order his hari to walk barefoot on hot coal and there are other traditions of our tribal/fuedal system

Urban area is no different we have two three high profile incidents and in one of the incidents a servant was burned by his sahab after he raped her.

[Iconoclast]

Re: Afghan tied up Pakistani Pushtoons before murdering them in cold blood

@tmx305

Nothing, they are still running their businesses, making alot of money, and have their own families etc. I was proving to Parisgal here that we dont treat our servents life slaves, liek she was implying.

Isn't this very unusual in tribal people. Usually the sons will kill the servant and then the servants family will retalliate in similar manner and un-ending cycle.

[antiobl]

Re: Afghan tied up Pakistani Pushtoons before murdering them in cold blood

@parissenoor

.... I was sugessting you are a capitalist..like bush promoting the exploitation of any "backward" tribe or country to fill your pocket.........

...........ps, i've been to pak...my future husband lives there...so i know what you describe: slavery is very common there...you've just proved my point about helping poors to be poorer

Free market is not the same as capitalism, and capitalism is not the same as Bushism.

I wonder why Pakistanis who live in free market economies talk like 19th century labor union bosses. All the commies and union bosses were proven wrong when free market economies provided the highest levels of prosperity to the workers.

Slavery in Pakistan may be present in tribal areas. However in big cities like Karachi house servants have to be treated like family members. Otherwise they leave and work for someone else.

So your stereotyping the motherland of your fiancé is not going to bode well for your marriage. You are going into this relationship with a sense of superiority for your side, and patronizing attitude about your husband's side. Not good, really! not good.

[Kooks]

Re: Afghan tied up Pakistani Pushtoons before murdering them in cold blood

@syedpk

I think there are few exceptions here and there like your family.But the fact in punjab we still have this "kami" and "kami kameen" system.I know many family friends who live in rural punjab and they all know that women are marched naked in the streets two three years back a newspaper published a story about this practice in multan.or the chaudhary sab ordering the mazara(farmer) to throw his in bhaatta(kiln)

The names might change in other provinces but not the attitude.In sindh a wadera sain can order his hari to walk barefoot on hot coal and there are other traditions of our tribal/fuedal system

Urban area is no different we have two three high profile incidents and in one of the incidents a servant was burned by his sahab after he raped her.

well these human rights abuses are very common. they are not a rarity. by the way as tmx's servants are from outside the punjab thats why they are rteated better. they are not hereditary servants or kami's. had he been a feudal lord im sure these servants would probably leave.

[antiobl]

Re: Afghan tied up Pakistani Pushtoons before murdering them in cold blood

@Kooks

well these human rights abuses are very common. they are not a rarity. by the way as tmx's servants are from outside the punjab thats why they are rteated better. they are not hereditary servants or kami's. had he been a feudal lord im sure these servants would probably leave.

Look you guys while enjoying the secular British laws have every right to criticize us lowly Pakistanis.

However Kami Kameen or other derogatory terms for the underclass is not limited to Pakistan. I have seen how Whites of Luton simply abandoned their homes when they saw "UK Kami Kameens" buying up property in the neighborhood.

So sure give us lectures (as I said earlier, you have every right to do so), but remember the "kami" status of your aloo stores as well.

[parissenoor]

Re: Afghan tied up Pakistani Pushtoons before murdering them in cold blood

@antiobl

Look you guys while enjoying the secular British laws have every right to criticize us lowly Pakistanis.

However Kami Kameen or other derogatory terms for the underclass is not limited to Pakistan. I have seen how Whites of Luton simply abandoned their homes when they saw “UK Kami Kameens” buying up property in the neighborhood.

So sure give us lectures (as I said earlier, you have every right to do so), but remember the “kami” status of your aloo stores as well.

so you think it’s a shame to be low class people?

remeber we criticize our countries before the one you live in:D…it’s two way..not a biased thingy:D…If I thought france was a good place, and french people nice ones…i wouldn’t be throwing my languge to garbage and migrating by the end of this year:halo:

@antiobl

Free market is not the same as capitalism, and capitalism is not the same as Bushism.

I wonder why Pakistanis who live in free market economies talk like 19th century labor union bosses. All the commies and union bosses were proven wrong when free market economies provided the highest levels of prosperity to the workers.

Slavery in Pakistan may be present in tribal areas. However in big cities like Karachi house servants have to be treated like family members. Otherwise they leave and work for someone else.

So your stereotyping the motherland of your fiancé is not going to bode well for your marriage. You are going into this relationship with a sense of superiority for your side, and patronizing attitude about your husband’s side. Not good, really! not good.

:Dlol…stereotypes are only in the interpretation of the reader:D…I am pretty sure there as many different types of people in pakistan as in the whole europe:clown:

[antiobl]

Re: Afghan tied up Pakistani Pushtoons before murdering them in cold blood

@parissenoor

so you think it's a shame to be low class people?

Why would it be shameful to belong to the lower classes? It is just that neo-European ex-desis come over here and lecture us about servants. Thus adding the element of shame to the important role of household servant in our society.

[syedpk]

Re: Afghan tied up Pakistani Pushtoons before murdering them in cold blood

Household servants are not treated like family members in pakistani society thats for a fact.Good families the real"khandani" one treat them well but many treat them very badly and even abuse them physically.

the only reason these poor guys come to big cities is to earn some money because is interior sindh a hari's wage for the day will be snatched by the kaamdaar.Its better for them to live in a city with less physical torture and some money rather than a village with only torture and no money.

The big waderas of karachi normally have their servants from their Goth(village).sain will decide their paghar(wage) and they are still their khadims

antiobl
whats their role in our society other than cleaning our houses,cooking our food,babysitting,drivers,mali(gardener) etc.The fact is our society has a class system and those who have money can get their work done which in other countries they do themselves through these poor guys

This guys talks about crimes against minorities etc but dont see any abuse that is done to these poor guys.surely a hypocrite

[parissenoor]

Re: Afghan tied up Pakistani Pushtoons before murdering them in cold blood

@syedpk

Household servants are not treated like family members in pakistani society thats for a fact.Good families the real"khandani" one treat them well but many treat them very badly and even abuse them physically.

the only reason these poor guys come to big cities is to earn some money because is interior sindh a hari's wage for the day will be snatched by the kaamdaar.Its better for them to live in a city with less physical torture and some money rather than a village with only torture and no money.

The big waderas of karachi normally have their servants from their Goth(village).sain will decide their paghar(wage) and they are still their khadims

antiobl whats their role in our society other than cleaning our houses,cooking our food,babysitting,drivers,mali(gardener) etc.The fact is our society has a class system and those who have money can get their work done which in other countries they do themselves through these poor guys

This guys talks about crimes against minorities etc but dont see any abuse that is done to these poor guys.surely a hypocrite

well only rich people can suport america:D....poor people know they have to fight to get their piece of the cake..and take it by force to obese americans/europeans:D

[tmx305]

Re: Afghan tied up Pakistani Pushtoons before murdering them in cold blood

@Kooks

well these human rights abuses are very common. they are not a rarity. by the way as tmx's servants are from outside the punjab thats why they are rteated better. they are not hereditary servants or kami's. had he been a feudal lord im sure these servants would probably leave.

kookie, are you saying im anti-punjabi?