Following up on some recent news, it seems most advocates of Justice and Fairness, want to punish Musharraf, one way or the other. People like Hamid Mir, are inviting people from Bugti clan, who seem to project, that Musharraf is responsible for Baluchistan’s mess. Most didn’t like Bugti anyways, but for this one case, they will hold in their own opinions about Bugti. They will also ignore (temporarily), that Baluchistan has faced millitary operations in past (like in 1973), on same or similar grounds. Musharraf did not cause the deprivity baluch feels when compared to other states like punjab. The idea for baluch to be governed by their own laws, did not sit well with any Pakistan ruler or other political leaders, who for temporary gains, will pretend that its not true. All in the same of Justice, fairness and rule of law.
Re: Advocates of Justice and Fairness
Live with it.. If Musharraf is innocent, he is getting the chance to prove it. He should have thought about facing such things when he abrogated the oath he took at PMA. Lets see if the guy is brave enough to come back from hiding in england and face the music like a man.
Re: Advocates of Justice and Fairness
That's Pakistan for you. Nothing but revenge politics. Forget the people. forget the poverty, forget Pakistan. If you are in power, hate someone and want pay back than go for it. Otherwise, sit there and eat.
Live with it.. If Musharraf is innocent, he is getting the chance to prove it. He should have thought about facing such things when he abrogated the oath he took at PMA. Lets see if the guy is brave enough to come back from hiding in england and face the music like a man.
Is it a test to see if Musharraf is innocent?
or a test to see if Musharraf is brave enough?
Both are two different things.
and then there is another factor, if this court is impartial?
Even you would agree, it is not.
Re: Advocates of Justice and Fairness
As I know a party can not be a judge
Are the judges of the bench are not a party in that case?
As I know a party can not be a judge Are the judges of the bench are not a party in that case?
All judges who sat on SC benches post 1999 will be party to the case in one way or the other so basically none of current judges should be on the bench for this case.
Following up on some recent news, it seems most advocates of Justice and Fairness, want to punish Musharraf, one way or the other. People like Hamid Mir, are inviting people from Bugti clan, who seem to project, that Musharraf is responsible for Baluchistan's mess. Most didn't like Bugti anyways, but for this one case, they will hold in their own opinions about Bugti. They will also ignore (temporarily), that Baluchistan has faced millitary operations in past (like in 1973), on same or similar grounds. Musharraf did not cause the deprivity baluch feels when compared to other states like punjab. The idea for baluch to be governed by their own laws, did not sit well with any Pakistan ruler or other political leaders, who for temporary gains, will pretend that its not true. All in the same of Justice, fairness and rule of law.
Murder of Bugti was HUGE for Baluchis. IMO, there is a slight different between not liking a person and killing that person, specially a person with stature and influent like Nawab Bugti.
All judges who sat on SC benches post 1999 will be party to the case in one way or the other so basically none of current judges should be on the bench for this case.
Totally agree. They all have conflict of interest & they have benefited as much from Mushrraf's rule as Mushrraf did from them being on the bench. Mushrraf and the these judges were scratching each others backs for 6 of his 8 years in office.
As I know a party can not be a judge Are the judges of the bench are not a party in that case?
Interesting point, now raised by every single Musharraf's supporter though they are very few. But can I ask whom do you want to be judge in this scenario? Almost all the judges were effected out of Nov. 03's step, no matter if those were PCO or non-PCO. So now, should the whole court bench go out of the building and let the case conducted without any judge?
The way I know it, bench should remain be same and they have to be unbiased while giving the decision.
But the problem is, even if you ask from a unbiased person, anyone who knows law, Musharraf will be held guilty which is totally true and the decision would be absolutely fine. But then there'll be another uproar charging these judges to give a "biased" decision against "innocent" musharraf.
The point what I'm trying to make here is that we all are in so much denial that we are not ready to accept the person we like to be seen accountable in the court of law. I'm not seeing this case going anywhere...
Is it a test to see if Musharraf is innocent? or a test to see if Musharraf is brave enough? Both are two different things.
So, who cares if they are different?
[quote]
and then there is another factor, if this court is impartial?
Even you would agree, it is not.
[/QUOTE]
Can you please ask Musharraf's greatest supporters in the past, i.e. altaf bhai, ataarni general qayum, chaudhries and all why they now think his actions were wrong and are distancing himself from his name? you should really direct ur quesitions to them my friend.
That was one of his few huge blunders Bhutto committed in his political career, just to apease punjabis and punjabi estabishment that cost him ultimately his life. But he did not murder any of the Baloch leader what Mush did by killing Akbar Bugti. Military operation was never an option in the past will never be an option in future in Baluchistan. Poeple talking about military operation in Baluchistan should remember humiliation of breakup of Pakistan in 1971. Mush should be tried for murder of Akbar Bugti.
Interesting point, now raised by every single Musharraf's supporter though they are very few. But can I ask whom do you want to be judge in this scenario? Almost all the judges were effected out of Nov. 03's step, no matter if those were PCO or non-PCO. So now, should the whole court bench go out of the building and let the case conducted without any judge?
The way I know it, bench should remain be same and they have to be unbiased while giving the decision. But the problem is, even if you ask from a unbiased person, anyone who knows law, Musharraf will be held guilty which is totally true and the decision would be absolutely fine. But then there'll be another uproar charging these judges to give a "biased" decision against "innocent" musharraf.
The point what I'm trying to make here is that we all are in so much denial that we are not ready to accept the person we like to be seen accountable in the court of law. I'm not seeing this case going anywhere...
I hate him,He was a killer but Justice has some requirements.
I didn’t know I was a Mushy supporter till now.
There should be a process defined for such cases, just like there is a process when a case against SC judge is filed.
Like I mentioned above, there is a process of picking judicial bench when a case is filed against a SC judge (or any other judge) and the “party” judge doesn’t sit on that bench, it can be done similarly.
There is no way possible that the judges will remain “unbiased” in a case where one of the party is an aggressor against them. If you remember an incident from a war during Prophet PBUH’s time, Hazrat Ali RA overpowered an enemy and he was about to kill him but that enemy spitted on Hazrat Ali RA then Hazrat Ali RA didn’t kill him because it would then be considered as killing for revenge and not for Allah.
These judges are not even dust of Hazrat Ali RA, they can’t be ‘unbiased’ in such a case.
Re: Advocates of Justice and Fairness
It ia new version Army should put Pervez Musharraf under trial: Akram Shaikh Updated at: 2023 PST, Thursday, July 30, 2009
ISLAMABAD: Justice Iftikhar Muhammad Chaudhry Thursday said the Supreme Court is competent to declare Pervez Musharraf’s steps as unconstitutional but it cannot award punishment because it falls under separate rules of law.
During the hearing of judges appointment case, the CJP said the court wants to dispose of the case by tomorrow.
Akram Shaikh Advocate giving his arguments said Pervez Musharraf violated his oath as Army Chief, so the Army should take action against him under the Army Act.
He said Pervez Musharraf who was under the Army oath had no permission to engage in any political activity and the steps he took on November 3, 2007 are unconstitutional.
Akram Shaikh asked the court to suggest the government to administer fresh oaths to Air Chief, Naval Chief and Joint Chiefs. He said the Army should put Pervez Musharraf under trial. On this, Rasheed A Rizvi said the Bar has a different stand on the issue; it wants to try Pervez Musharraf under Article 6 for treason.
Hamid Khan presenting his arguments before the court said the SC can declare former military ruler Pervez Musharraf’s steps on November 3, 2007 as unconstitutional and can put him under trial for treason.
Justice Shahid Siddiqui, one of the 14-judges hearing the case, observed that it is up to the Parliament and the nation to try Musharraf. The CJ, during the arguments of Hamid Khan, said that at least 41 steps were taken “unconstitutionally” after the imposition of emergency rule on November 3, 2007, by the then military ruler General (r) Pervez Musharraf.
Later, the hearing was adjourned till 8:00 am tomorrow (Friday). The Attorney General of Pakistan will present his arguments before the court tomorrow.
by one usually N$ lawer
So army is above Supreme Court of Pakistan. What is the purpose of this case then? I wonder if any civilized country has army superior than the superior court of the country. Can you name one?
So army is above Supreme Court of Pakistan. What is the purpose of this case then? I wonder if any civilized country has army superior than the superior court of the country. Can you name one?
I think he meant Court Marshall etc
Re: Advocates of Justice and Fairness
If army had to court martial him, it should've been in 1999, 2000 or so, but since army slept with him for 9 years there is no way army will court martial him now, not sure if a 'retired' army officer can be court martialed.
Following up on some recent news, it seems most advocates of Justice and Fairness, want to punish Musharraf, one way or the other. People like Hamid Mir, are inviting people from Bugti clan, who seem to project, that Musharraf is responsible for Baluchistan's mess. Most didn't like Bugti anyways, but for this one case, they will hold in their own opinions about Bugti. They will also ignore (temporarily), that Baluchistan has faced millitary operations in past (like in 1973), on same or similar grounds. Musharraf did not cause the deprivity baluch feels when compared to other states like punjab. The idea for baluch to be governed by their own laws, did not sit well with any Pakistan ruler or other political leaders, who for temporary gains, will pretend that its not true. All in the same of Justice, fairness and rule of law.
First of all i totally agree with what you said but why point out Punjab only???
Karachi (of Sindh province) has developed much more than any other city in recent years so stop using this propaganda. Balochis have every reason to feel deprived but the WHOLE country is responsible for it.
Back to the topic, i totally agree with you that most people who didn't like Bugti are now asking for a case to be filed against Musharaff for Bugti's so called murder.
Most people didn't agree with Mullah Abdul Aziz's gang threatning young girls and asking them NOT to go to school, kidnapping foriegners, burning and destroying music shops. Most people were shocked to find out that there were weapons of high quality found inside the Lal mosque but then they ignored everything and made the same mullah a hero and Musharaff the KAFIR.
We have short memories...........
If army had to court martial him, it should've been in 1999, 2000 or so, but since army slept with him for 9 years there is no way army will court martial him now, not sure if a 'retired' army officer can be court martialed.
LOL, army should court martial all it's 3 and 4 star generals.
First of all i totally agree with what you said but why point out Punjab only??? Karachi (of Sindh province) has developed much more than any other city in recent years so stop using this propaganda. Balochis have every reason to feel deprived but the WHOLE country is responsible for it.
Back to the topic, i totally agree with you that most people who didn't like Bugti are now asking for a case to be filed against Musharaff for Bugti's so called murder. Most people didn't agree with Mullah Abdul Aziz's gang threatning young girls and asking them NOT to go to school, kidnapping foriegners, burning and destroying music shops. Most people were shocked to find out that there were weapons of high quality found inside the Lal mosque but then they ignored everything and made the same mullah a hero and Musharaff the KAFIR.
We have short memories...........
Not to mention Bugti died when he misfired an RPG inside the cave according to his aides who were with him.